Tithe With Out A Cheerful Heart?

[LindaR]

Please tell me, just how many New Testament Churches does God have?  I thought the scriptures teach there is ONE Church, and all born-again believers are a member.

 

What you are doing is holding membership in a corporation doing business as a church.  Similar to holding membership in a club. 

There is one body (the body of Christ) and many members (local assemblies consisting of born again believers...Jew and Gentile).  The "one baptism" is Spirit baptism, not water baptism.

 

Ephesians 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
Ephesians 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Ephesians 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

 

Romans 12:4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
Romans 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

 

1 Corinthians 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

[GaryArnold]

The members here are clearly revealing through scripture what their belief's - opinions are, while you strike back at them if it happens to not agree with you.

 

I see a lot of beliefs and opinions expressed here, but absolutely NO scripture to back up tithing money, or even tithing from one's income.  Opinions and/or beliefs mean nothing if there is no scripture to back them up.

 

Unfortunately, too many believe what man teaches rather than what the scriptures teach.

 

The tithing scriptures are clear.  They aren't confusing.  They aren't a mystery.  God is not the author of confusion.  If God wanted us to tithe from our income, God would have given instructions as to how to do it, and where to take it.  Gross income or net income?  Inheritances?  (In the Old Testament, the eleven tribes that inherited the promised land did NOT tithe the land they inherited, but the Levites were required to tithe from their inheritance.  God spells it out.)  Gifts?  Non-monetary gifts?  In order to teach that tithing is valid on money and/or income, man has to make up the rules.  Do you really think that God would leave it up to man to determine His tithe? 

[Salyan]

Whether it's incorporated or not, the point is the same.  As soon as a "local church" requires or offers membership, it puts it out of the category of being like a club.  This whole "church membership" thing is man made.  Just like the tithing doctrine taught in so many churches today.  Just a man-made doctrine as can easily be found when researching the history of tithing money in the Christian Church.

 

This is a good subject for discussion, but will take us waaaay off topic. GaryArnold, if you (or anyone else) would like to discuss this point, could you please start a new thread?  Hopefully that will keep this one from getting any more conglomerated than it already is. Thanks.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

I have been following this topic and must say there is much controversy and stone throwing.  What I don't understand, 'Standing Firm In Christ', is why you are taking much of this personally.  The members here are clearly revealing through scripture what their belief's - opinions are, while you strike back at them if it happens to not agree with you.  In the end it is all between the individual and GOD.  We will all stand before HIM and give account.  Why is this a big deal to you?  I don't believe the majority of the members here, are here to do needless battle.  Let's enjoy the fellowship with one another.....there's a time and a place to stand firmly and somehow I don't think this is it?? Last time I checked, GOD was still in control.

Jesuspaiditall4all,

There have only been three verses used in this thread by others concerning tithing.  Actually, it was not others, but rather one member.
Those verses used are Leviticus 27:30, Matthew 23:23 & Luke 11:42.  Those are the only verses that have been used in this thread that support tithing. 

And the tithing they support is not that monetary tithe that is taught in pulpits today.  They support the tithe found within the Mosaic Law.. tithe of agricultural produce and livestock.

It appears though you may have been following the topic, you have not actually been paying close attention to the posts.

And just exactly why is it wrong to stand firm on what the Scripture teaches, prey tell?
One should never desert the Truth written in Scripture and embrace error.

[Steve Schwenke]

Whether it's incorporated or not, the point is the same.  As soon as a "local church" requires or offers membership, it puts it out of the category of being like a club.  This whole "church membership" thing is man made.  Just like the tithing doctrine taught in so many churches today.  Just a man-made doctrine as can easily be found when researching the history of tithing money in the Christian Church.

Oh please....

 

And just where exactly is "finance minister" in the Bible?   If you are going to go that route, then at least be consistent.

PS - I believe church membership IS in the Bible, but Prov. 25:2 comes into play here.  Only a lazy student looks for the easy "silver bullet" verse to prove or disprove their pet teachings.

 

Can we close this thread now???

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Why close it?  Because it doesn't fit your theology?

 

Wrong motive.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

While the term "financial minister" cannot be found in Scripture, the word "treasurer" certainly is. 

And exactly what is a treasurer?  Is it not a financial minister?

[Standing Firm In Christ]

A little humor interjected at this point would be the fact that a minister of finance is also known as a "comptroller"

When looking up the word "comptroll" in the Webster's 1828 Dictionary, I find the following definition:

Webster's 1828 Dictionary [A-J]
comptroll

COMPTROLL, from L., To count or compute, and a register. If this word were of genuine origin, both the verb and its derivative, as applied to a public officer, would not be sense. But there is no such legitimate word in English, nor in any other known language. See Control.

Wait!  Did I read that right?  There is no such legitimate word in the English, nor in any other language?  Well, how did it end up in a dictionary of words?  And if there is no such word, why does it have a definition?

Maybe Gary can give us some insight into that one.

[GaryArnold]

Is Music Ministry in the scriptures?  How about Youth Ministry?  Singles Ministry?  Need I go on?

 

Being that I minister/teach, and I teach finances/stewardship, I consider my "job description" to be that of a Financial Minister.  I don't use any title in front of my name other than that of "Brother."

[Salyan]

My title is Miss Sarah. Does that count?

[Salyan]

Was just thinking about the original OP - cheerful giving. Kinda ironic how most of this thread has revolved around a lack of cheerfulness - either concerning our own giving, or that of others. 

 

Hilarem datorem diligit Deus.

[HappyChristian]

Was just thinking about the original OP - cheerful giving. Kinda ironic how most of this thread has revolved around a lack of cheerfulness - either concerning our own giving, or that of others. 

 

Hilarem datorem diligit Deus.

[GaryArnold]

We give, not tithe, with a cheerful heart.  The Biblical tithe was paid, not a gift (Matthew 23:23).

 

Being Spirit led instead of OT law and/or pastor led, I find myself giving more like 30% of my income each month, cheerfully.  I can't be cheerful about paying my taxes.  Tithing was very similar to paying taxes.

 

Tithe - paid by those who inherited the promised land.
Inheritance or Estate tax - paid from the estate or inheritance.

Tithe - ONLY on property owners.
Property tax - ONLY on property owners.

Tithe - used to run the theocracy.
Income tax - used to run the government.

Tithe - doesn't apply to the poor.
Luxury tax - doesn't apply to the poor.

Tithing can also be compared to sharecropping.

Tithing was always taxation so that the programs of the government could run: the priestly program, the national religious program, and the welfare program.
Taken from God’s Plan for Giving, John MacArthur, Moody Press, 1985, page 76.

God placed all of these verses in our Bibles to remind us that Levites were public officials of the state and tithes were included as state-taxation to support them.
Taken from Should the Church Teach Tithing, Russell E. Kelly, Ph.D., page 70.

Even the Jewish Encyclopedia, Encyclopedia Judaica, agrees that tithes were political taxes.
Taken from Should the Church Teach Tithing, Russell E. Kelly, Ph.D., page 71.

See also William Hendriksen and Simon J. Kistemaker, New Testament Commentary: Exposition of Thessalonians, the Pastorals, and Hebrews (Grand Rapids: Baker, 1995), 187, for support of the relationship between taxes and tithing.
 

[JerryNumbers]

Whether it's incorporated or not, the point is the same.  As soon as a "local church" requires or offers membership, it puts it out of the category of being like a club.  This whole "church membership" thing is man made.  Just like the tithing doctrine taught in so many churches today.  Just a man-made doctrine as can easily be found when researching the history of tithing money in the Christian Church.

 

So you believe in one large universal church, not the local church. that teaching comes from the RCC.

 

church which was in Jerusalem

 

church that was at Antioch

 

church at Cenchrea.

 

church of God which is at Corinth

 

church of the Laodiceans

 

church of the Thessalonians

 

the church of the Cretians

 

church which is in his house

 

the church in Smyrna

 

the church in Pergamos

 

church in Thyatira

 

Yes, & that's not all of them, each one of them is refereed to as a church, so what we actually have is local churches, with each one being independent of the other yet the head of each one is Christ.

[John81]

Interesting, some of the varied aspects brought up in this thread are primarily unique to Western churches and matters mostly of more recent times.

 

Anyway, several things here could be interestingly discussed, if not all jumbled together in one thread, and if folks discussed the matters in a civil manner with Christian love.