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Tithe With Out A Cheerful Heart?


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Well, there has been the usual nonsense on this topic, which I have skipped over.  I have to give a shout-out to Salyan for saying what has needed to be said for a long time.  Thank you!   I won't t

SFIC, you are proving an enigma to me. You produce very well thought out, reasonable posts on many subjects, and I generally appreciate your input, but something about this topic produces Mr. Hyde!  

In response to the original question, a Christian should always be happy to give to the Lord's work cheerfully.  The problem we face today is that my generation and younger do not really understand wh

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Well, the door has been opened.  I have no problem walking through an open door at all.

Since the Word of God clearly states that the commandments written in the ordinances have been abolished, I can boldly and without reserve, proclaim that the notion that anyone today is required by the God I serve to tithe is preposterous and the product of a vain imagination. 

God's Word is supposed to be our final authority, yet so many have no problem going against what is clearly written in it.  There is no command in the Bible requiring us to tithe today... no instruction, not even a suggestion.

The Apostle Peter stood before a crowd in Acts chapter 5 and stated, "We ought to obey God rather than men." 

God says He abolished the commandments written in the ordinances.  God says we are to choose in our own hearts what we give and that our giving should not be such as that it causes others to prosper and us to lack.  Tithe teachers teach just the opposite.  They oppress the poor and needy and put a greater stress on them financially while they prosper.

But their prosperity is only temporary...

Proverbs 22:16 He that oppresseth the poor to increase his riches, and he that giveth to the rich, shall surely come to want.

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The biblical tithe was never money. Today, what most churches call "tithes" are not tithes, but simply an offering of 10% of your income.  You can call that a tithe until the cows come home....but calling that 10% offering a biblical tithe will not make it a biblical tithe.

 

Bills get paid with the sacrificial free will offerings of church members, given with a cheerful heart. (2 Cor. 9:6-7)

 

The temple was never financed with tithes.  Church bills are not paid with tithes, just as your household bills are not paid with tithes.

Edited by LindaR
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The biblical tithe was never money. 

 

Bills get paid with the sacrificial free will offerings of church members, given with a cheerful heart. (2 Cor. 9:6-7)

 

The temple was never financed with tithes.

The tithes went to feed to priests and the poor.

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You're going to get them mad my friend. How would you pay the bills today, at your church, just checking.

Bills at your church get paid by the sacrificial free will offerings of the church members, given with a cheerful heart (2 Cor. 9:6-7).  Church members cannot give with a cheerful heart if they are coerced into giving a "mandatory" 10% of their gross income.

 

If people get mad, they will be getting mad at God.  This is what God says in His Word.

 

Giving is not tithing.

Edited by LindaR
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I've said it before and I'll say it again. If you're going to give the preacher food then give it properly prepared. If you give him a bull quarter then you better have given it to him in the proper wrapping prepared for freezing; if its given prepared for freezing you better buy him a freezer to keep it in.

 

The principle applies across all forms of offerings for the preacher's sustaining. You want him to visit the sick in the hospital in a city 200 miles away, prepare the sermon God laid on his heart for you, and be at your beck and call during any myriad of circumstances. Then, you be at his beck and call to provide transportation, or provide his vehicle, gasoline, maintenance of the vehicle, and pens, paper, etc. for the message; OR, you give financially and make it enough he can take care of this himself.

 

Otherwise give double honor (MONEY) and stop complaining. I don't care if you call it tithe, freewill offering, love offering, gift, whatever. You have a responsibility to care for God's man and permit him "to minister the word."

 

Acts 6:2   Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables. 
Acts 6:3   Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business. 
Acts 6:4   But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word.

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You're going to get them mad my friend. How would you pay the bills today, at your church, just checking.

As my wife said, through freewill offerings.

Tithes were never meant to pay for the upkeep of the Temple. They were meant to sustain those who were working at the Temple.

And who was required to tithe to the Temple according to the Word of God? Not the 11 tribes of Israel, but the 1 Tribe... the Levites. No one else tithed to the Temple according to the Mosaic Law. 1 Tribe out of 12... that's 8% of Israel that was responsible for tithing to the Temple storehouse, not 100%.

If God never abolished His tithe, then it would be the ministerial staff under the rule of the Pastor who would be required to tithe to the Church, not the congregation. The pianist, the organist, the Deacons, The Teachers, The Sunday School Superintendent... these would be the ones who would be responsible for bringing the tithe into the Church.

Of course, since God's Word says that the commandments written in the ordinances were abolished, then one who insists on his congregation tithing today is in effect telling God they don't care if He abolished the tithe, they are going to do things their way. They are in rebellion against God when they do things their own way.

Oh, according to God's Word, those receiving the tithes of the congregation were not to own their the land the were living on. How many "tithe" receivers today would be willing to trade in their possessions in exchange for tithes? I bet none would. They expect the congregation to live by the tithe law, but fail themselves to submit to that same law.

Hypocritical, if you ask me. Edited by Standing Firm In Christ
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Double honor is not money. If honor is money, then when are you going to start paying your boss for making you work? A servant is to honor his master.




This free will giving sound good to me, but it just will not work, people or Christians need a guide to give.
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This free will giving sound good to me, but it just will not work, people or Christians need a guide to give.

 

Here's the guide you speak of...

 

2 Corinthians 9:7
Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
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If they give what others tell them to give; i.e., a ten percent tithe, then they are in direct disobedience to God's Holy Word.

2 Corinthians 9:7 (KJV) 7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, [so let him give]; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

God says we should give as we purpose in our own heats to give. That means we choose for ourselves what we want to give. No pastor has the authority to tell those in his congregation that they are to give "x" amount of money. When they do, they are telling their flock to act in disobedience and rebellion to God.

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2 Corinthians is not talking about giving to your local church. Stop twisting the scriptures. It was a special offering for a special time and a special need. I mean, since you non tithers want to obey the letter and all.... just saying.

To condemn those that tithe as coercers and all that clap trap, then to quote a passage that has absolutely nothing to do with regular giving in a local church is beyond the pale.

 

lol

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Actually, 2 Corinthians 9 does not say it is a special offering for a special need and a special time.  Read it again.

2 Corinthians 9:1-7 For as touching the ministering to the saints, it is superfluous for me to write to you: For I know the forwardness of your mind, for which I boast of you to them of Macedonia, that Achaia was ready a year ago; and your zeal hath provoked very many. Yet have I sent the brethren, lest our boasting of you should be in vain in this behalf; that, as I said, ye may be ready: Lest haply if they of Macedonia come with me, and find you unprepared, we (that we say not, ye) should be ashamed in this same confident boasting. Therefore I thought it necessary to exhort the brethren, that they would go before unto you, and make up beforehand your bounty, whereof ye had notice before, that the same might be ready, as a matter of bounty, and not as of covetousness. But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

The offering is for the ministering to the saints.  Doesn't say it is a special need or a special offering or a special time.   Nice try though.

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This free will giving sound good to me, but it just will not work, people or Christians need a guide to give.

2 Corinthians 8:12 For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not.

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And if someone purposes in their heart to give 10% of their income?

If they purpose to give of their own volition, and not because they have been taught that God requires that amount, nothing wrong with it. 

But from what I have seen, every Church where tithe envelopes are used, the pastors and teachers have taught that God requires the tithe.  So, the unlearned members blindly accept that God requires it and they give, not because they have purposed to give that amount on their own, but because they believed a lie.  They give the 10% because they were told to give it by a dishonest preacher or teacher.

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If that's what they've purposed, that's what they've purposed.   :)

But that "purposing" should be from the heart, not because they were told or coerced into giving 10%...that this is what God "requires" them to do.

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When you read what is written within Paul's epistles about giving, the majority of it deals with taking care of the needs of other poor and needy Christians.  This is an area; in which, many of today's churches fail.  There are many church members who need help financially, yet the church seems to almost turn a blind eye to that.  In my area, it's a big thing for church leaders to say that things ought to be done "first class".  

 

Now, don't get me wrong...there's nothing wrong with doing things right and making things look as nice as possible.  However, when you have a 80 year old widow who can't buy her medicine, groceries, or pay the heating bill, but the church decides they need to put brick around their metal buildings instead of helping her...something's wrong.  

 

Many years ago, I was a member in a church who gave $100 to those in need.  It didn't matter if they needed $100 exactly or if they had just undergone major surgery, their house burned down, they lost their job...or whatever...they gave the person $100.  It also didn't matter if it was a church member or someone outside of the church who was asking for help.

 

The church should be more careful to take care of their own.

 

What all of that has to do with this thread...I have no idea!  :nuts:

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I know pastors who will "rob" widows and the elderly by going to their houses and picking up their "tithes"... even when that elderly person or widow is not attending that pastor's so-called "Church."

My mother had a pastor that did that very thing.  Even though mother was no longer able to go to Church, the pastor showed up at her doorstep every month for his "tithe" check.

She moved to another state a couple years back and another pastor, though he does not go to her house, will call her every month to make sure she mails him her tithe.

Such pastors are a disgrace to the ministry.

Matthew 23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

Pastors have no fear of God anymore.  Though God teaches in His Holy Word that the tithe has been abolished, they continue to teach their congregations that God requires the tithe.  I am so thankful that less and less people are falling for these wolves in sheep clothing.

Matthew 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

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Many years ago, I was a member in a church who gave $100 to those in need.  It didn't matter if they needed $100 exactly or if they had just undergone major surgery, their house burned down, they lost their job...or whatever...they gave the person $100.  It also didn't matter if it was a church member or someone outside of the church who was asking for help.

 

I failed to mention, even though that was their "policy" 20+ years ago, it hasn't changed...it's still $100 today.

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That's more than what they gave mother when her oldest son died. They gave her $50.00

A church she has given more than $30,000.00 in "tithes" was so gracious as to give her a whopping $50.00 in her time of need.

Too bad it didn't bankrupt that particular church.

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ
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When you read what is written within Paul's epistles about giving, the majority of it deals with taking care of the needs of other poor and needy Christians.  This is an area; in which, many of today's churches fail.  There are many church members who need help financially, yet the church seems to almost turn a blind eye to that.  In my area, it's a big thing for church leaders to say that things ought to be done "first class".  

 

Now, don't get me wrong...there's nothing wrong with doing things right and making things look as nice as possible.  However, when you have a 80 year old widow who can't buy her medicine, groceries, or pay the heating bill, but the church decides they need to put brick around their metal buildings instead of helping her...something's wrong.  

 

Many years ago, I was a member in a church who gave $100 to those in need.  It didn't matter if they needed $100 exactly or if they had just undergone major surgery, their house burned down, they lost their job...or whatever...they gave the person $100.  It also didn't matter if it was a church member or someone outside of the church who was asking for help.

 

The church should be more careful to take care of their own.

 

What all of that has to do with this thread...I have no idea!  :nuts:

 

Pertaining to the part I underlined, I've noticed in many churches its the whose who in that church that actually gets help from the church & not necessarily the ones that really needs help.

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