Ex-Ifb's Are The Angriest, Most Hateful...

[JerryNumbers]

I expect this is happening in many of the denominations. And we are only aware of it the circles we are in.

 

And its been going on for years, & the closer to the coming of our Lord I figure it will wax worse.

 

We just have to keep our eyes on Jesus staying faithful.

[John81]

The Lord Himself mentions chance in the parable of the Samaritan. He mentions it so casually without expounding or emphasis as if it were a naturally occurring everyday thing. Certainly you aren't referring to Him in your flippant reaction, are you?

In the context it would seem Jesus may have been using that term for effect, as if we are trying to make a point stand out more and we say something like "then this 'just happened'". A play on words to make the point more directed.

 

In several passages of Scripture we are told God controls everything. Nothing happens without God directly bringing it about or allowing it; either way, nothing occurs without God being in control. There is a verse (haven't looked it up this morning) which deals more directly with this sort of thing, as it tells us when lots are cast it's God that controls the outcome. We can toss the dice, but how they land are in the hands of God.

 

Elsewhere we are told that man plans his way but it's God that directs our paths.

 

We are told that not even a sparrow is allowed to die without God bringing it to be or allowing it to happen.

 

There are several other verses which touch upon this as well. God is in control. "Luck" is a pagan concept.

[JerryNumbers]

The Lord Himself mentions chance in the parable of the Samaritan. He mentions it so casually without expounding or emphasis as if it were a naturally occurring everyday thing. Certainly you aren't referring to Him in your flippant reaction, are you?

 

I refer you back to my previous post.

[JerryNumbers]

A lot of ex-IFB's are angry because they feel like they missed out on a lot of fun while they were IFB's.

 

Yes some get madbecause they missed out on all of the sin.

[Seth Doty]

 For nearly 30 years in IFB churches all over the world I have seen on average more rebel than not rebel once they get out from under "the thumb"- I could conservatively estimate 60% turn away.

 

 

 

I would say that is very accurate. The percentage may well be quite a bit higher than that. I will also say it seems to matter very little how carefully they were protected & raised or what standards their parents had or didn't have. For example in my family there were eight children which grew up in pretty conservative IFB churches. Myself, two brothers, and five sisters. All seemed to be more or less ok up until they left our parents house. Within a few years of that both my brothers at separate times decided they were atheists and slowly adopted lifestyles that reflect that, one of my sisters went into a very liberal form of christianity, another went into the modern neo-calvinism of the john piper flavor, one stayed ok and two more are still in my parents home. That sort of thing is the norm in almost every family I know. I think, at the core, a large percentage of children that grow up in IFB churches simply don't "get it". Why that is is a open question. They may have outward conformity to doctrines and standards but they do not understand in their hearts the reasons for those doctrines and standards and when the time comes where they must choose to stay or change they don't feel that what they have is worth having and therefore end up scattering to the four winds so to speak. The only question is is this type of thing strictly their own fault, or is it a joint fault with many IFB churches for not understanding that while the internal should produce the externals in many cases those that grew up in IFB churches are unhappy and empty internally and only conforming externally for a time out of convenience and that one day that is just no longer enough and they take off to where every they may so long as it is something different. One thing, once they get to that stage it seems to be very rare for them to come back so if it is to be stopped it has to be stopped in the stage where they are inwardly empty but not yet outwardly showing the fruit of that emptiness. 

[Salyan]

That seems to be a reasonable estimation of why the kids leave the church. I would like to learn how best to teach the youngers the 'internals' of trust and dependence with the reasons behind the external rules. 'This ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.' It almost seems to run in families, though. I haven't been in an IFB church for that long, but I don't yet see the 60% mentioned above leaving - at least not across the board (though I do see kids lowering their standards and the churches lowering with them). I know one pastor's family that has lost 75% of their 4 kids - and I'm wondering about the last. There's another with 9 kids - 2 left at home - that lost 2 of them. One family I'm close to has 12 kids - 6 at home - but has only lost one - and that to a more liberal church. What makes the difference between the first family and the last? I would surely like to know...

[ASongOfDegrees]

II Timothy 2:3

 

[3] Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

 

 

I heard an interesting comment by preacher one time concerning this verse to suggest that most Christians only have a serious walk with the Lord for a few years (4-5 years) than fall away. The application he made with this verse was that the Christian's life is comparable to a soldier's life and most people only serve in the military for a few years before they've had enough. Only a few re-up for more tours of duty and even less make it a career. There may be some truth to this application.

 

In the parable of the sower and seed in Matthew 13 you only have 1/4 of those who receive the seed lasting any length of time and even among those where the seed takes root there is disparity with a few producing the most fruit. 

[wretched]

In the context it would seem Jesus may have been using that term for effect, as if we are trying to make a point stand out more and we say something like "then this 'just happened'". A play on words to make the point more directed.

 

In several passages of Scripture we are told God controls everything. Nothing happens without God directly bringing it about or allowing it; either way, nothing occurs without God being in control. There is a verse (haven't looked it up this morning) which deals more directly with this sort of thing, as it tells us when lots are cast it's God that controls the outcome. We can toss the dice, but how they land are in the hands of God.

 

Elsewhere we are told that man plans his way but it's God that directs our paths.

 

We are told that not even a sparrow is allowed to die without God bringing it to be or allowing it to happen.

 

There are several other verses which touch upon this as well. God is in control. "Luck" is a pagan concept.

 

Figure of speech huh? I don't recommend explaining away anything the Lord said as a figure of speech simple because you have been lead to believe a certain way.

 

I am very interested in the context of any verses that demonstrate the Lord controls everything. Not that He couldn't which is obvious BUT that He does control every movement, decision, action and inaction of everyone or every fortunate or unfortunate occurrence that happens: Saved or lost. "Knowing" all of the above has nothing to do with controlling by the way so no need to include those Scriptures.

 

**Now this is not a sincere request because I am nearly certain you cannot find any Scripture to support this claim but since you state it emphatically, give it a go.

 

Now, when we walk in the Spirit (which is rare) yes, absolutely that is easy to find in Scripture. But that is not what you claim here. Most Christians spend little of their time walking with God and no lost walk with God. Having an outward list of sins you don't do and practicing 3x10 is not walking in the Spirit for Christians. Those rare times when we are in the Spirit and have no thought of anything physical, worldly, carnal I do believe the Bible supports God leading our steps and actions. Now, I am not agreeing that bad things won't still happen when we walk with the Lord because they do (and will) while we live in these meatsacks in this cursed world.

 

I am not including sowing and reaping, that principle affects all, saved or lost.

 

No bad things happen for the power and glory of God to be manifest in this present age. The Lord made that example of the young blind man as the glory to God coming from his sight being restored, not from him simply being blind. I know lots of people try to explain the bad things that happen to Christians by saying well the Lord is putting this trial on you so you can help others later and they reference this passage proving it. It doesn't prove that at all and has nothing to do it

 

Some are born blind, saved and lost, some become blind, saved and lost.

 

Regardless of our lot in life, whether fortunate or unfortunate (whether sometimes fortunate or unfortunate), it is what we do with what we have ignoring our physical state and lot in life (whether wealth or health) that matters God, a Spiritual walk with God is what He wants of us to however we find ourselves and whatever happens to us. Our home is in Heaven and that is where we should look ignoring the physical.

 

God's not going to make you wealthy or healthy because you serve Him and you nor I will be protected from unfortunate occurrences while we serve and walk with Him. While we are on this cursed earth, chance will occur and I think it is naive to believe that God's is controlling what you have for lunch tomorrow.

 

All of this includes the OP issue. Sure we are to train them up in the way they should go and when they are old they shall not depart from it. But how old is the question. We sow seeds with our kids and if they are only outward seeds for the world and church to see than that is what we will reap from our kids.

 

I will go a step farther: The NT doesn't support prayers to God for physical things at all. Every instance of teaching on prayer has to do with the Spirit, not the physical. On importunity: "How much more so will God give the Holy Spirit unto them that ask". I could keep going but have no time.

[JerryNumbers]

Figure of speech huh? I don't recommend explaining away anything the Lord said as a figure of speech simple because you have been lead to believe a certain way.

 

I am very interested in the context of any verses that demonstrate the Lord controls everything. Not that He couldn't which is obvious BUT that He does control every movement, decision, action and inaction of everyone or every fortunate or unfortunate occurrence that happens: Saved or lost. "Knowing" all of the above has nothing to do with controlling by the way so no need to include those Scriptures.

 

**Now this is not a sincere request because I am nearly certain you cannot find any Scripture to support this claim but since you state it emphatically, give it a go.

 

Now, when we walk in the Spirit (which is rare) yes, absolutely that is easy to find in Scripture. But that is not what you claim here. Most Christians spend little of their time walking with God and no lost walk with God. Having an outward list of sins you don't do and practicing 3x10 is not walking in the Spirit for Christians. Those rare times when we are in the Spirit and have no thought of anything physical, worldly, carnal I do believe the Bible supports God leading our steps and actions. Now, I am not agreeing that bad things won't still happen when we walk with the Lord because they do (and will) while we live in these meatsacks in this cursed world.

 

I am not including sowing and reaping, that principle affects all, saved or lost.

 

No bad things happen for the power and glory of God to be manifest in this present age. The Lord made that example of the young blind man as the glory to God coming from his sight being restored, not from him simply being blind. I know lots of people try to explain the bad things that happen to Christians by saying well the Lord is putting this trial on you so you can help others later and they reference this passage proving it. It doesn't prove that at all and has nothing to do it

 

Some are born blind, saved and lost, some become blind, saved and lost.

 

Regardless of our lot in life, whether fortunate or unfortunate (whether sometimes fortunate or unfortunate), it is what we do with what we have ignoring our physical state and lot in life (whether wealth or health) that matters God, a Spiritual walk with God is what He wants of us to however we find ourselves and whatever happens to us. Our home is in Heaven and that is where we should look ignoring the physical.

 

God's not going to make you wealthy or healthy because you serve Him and you nor I will be protected from unfortunate occurrences while we serve and walk with Him. While we are on this cursed earth, chance will occur and I think it is naive to believe that God's is controlling what you have for lunch tomorrow.

 

All of this includes the OP issue. Sure we are to train them up in the way they should go and when they are old they shall not depart from it. But how old is the question. We sow seeds with our kids and if they are only outward seeds for the world and church to see than that is what we will reap from our kids.

 

I will go a step farther: The NT doesn't support prayers to God for physical things at all. Every instance of teaching on prayer has to do with the Spirit, not the physical. On importunity: "How much more so will God give the Holy Spirit unto them that ask". I could keep going but have no time.

 

I'm asking. So, are you saying, you do not believe in praying to God for the sick, for that would not be a Spiritual thing?

 

Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

Jas 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

[John81]

 

I'm asking. So, are you saying, you do not believe in praying to God for the sick, for that would not be a Spiritual thing?

 

Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

Jas 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

 

Yes, and when Jesus taught the disciples how to pray He said we are to ask for our daily bread. Elsewhere in the NT we are told God will supply all our needs.

[wretched]

 

I'm asking. So, are you saying, you do not believe in praying to God for the sick, for that would not be a Spiritual thing?

 

Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

Jas 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

 

 

Sounds good brothers, y'all win

[Texmex]

I'm not talking about Ruckanites, though they can be unloving. I'd rather stay out of that discussion.

I mean people who just seethe with hatred for Baptists and sometimes Christians in general.

 

Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.  But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.  But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them  And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.  2Tim. 3:12-15 KJV

As we stand by the Word of God and endeavor to live godly in the world, we will see more persecution.  As Christendom moves more and more away from God and His standards, we will continue to see their wrath poured out on those who truly believe.

 

As the sodomites continue to gain ground in this  post-Christian world we can expect less tolerance for God, God's Word, and God's ways.

[Miss Daisy]

What is a Ruckanite?

[heartstrings]

What is a Ruckanite?

Don't know exactly. But Peter Ruckman is a preacher who has some really wacky doctrines. I have held one of his tracts, in my hand, which taught that people will be saved by works after the rapture and that those who hear the gospel BEFORE the rapture, will get another chance by basically refusing the mark of the Beast.

[heartstrings]

In my experience, some of the most angry, hateful, evil people ever are those who have come out of an IFBx or even more cultish religion. Some people I've "Met" online and wondered why they were so angry and hateful at other Christians only to find out later that they had been raised in some sort of "fundamentalist" home. Once they find out I am a Christian, it is like they spew hatred...and sometimes I feel like if they could just snuff me out, they would.

Is the "abuse" that terrible in IFBx and other groups? Or....why do people turn out like this???

As a side note, I am more and more concerned about Christianity in this country. The hate that groups, especially gay groups, have for Christians is frightening. More and more I feel like Christians will be a truly persecuted group...maybe even by the time my children are fully grown.

Sobering.

Some are truly haters of God. But not all. What kind of feelings would you have if your own Mother turned on you? I woulod be devastated. Or how shocked and bewildered would you be, if you were lied to by someone who you had been led to believe was among the few adherents to and guardians of TheTruth? Some need to get saved but others just need time to heal and realize that God is still there if every other Baptist and even "Mama" forsakes us.

 

When my father and my mother forsake me, then the LORD will take me up. Psalm 27:10