Ccm Being Used By Temple Baptist Church Powell, Tn (Pastor Clarence Sexton)

[brosmith]

Here is another example of CCM being used by Temple Baptist Church:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvnWeshNoKQ

 

The song is called "Lamb of God" and was written by Twila Paris.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLVtp_b_SIU

[brosmith]

One more example of CCM being used by Temple Baptist Church:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpyZUK77FCs

 

This song "The Blood Will Never Lose Its Power" is by Andrae Crouch.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaASM4KZVzU

[brosmith]

Another example of CCM being used by Temple Baptist Church:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IouuK_Bsh_Y

 

"How Deep the Father's Love For Us" is by Stuart Townend:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzQj7XvKFmA

[brosmith]

One more example of CCM being used by Temple Baptist Church:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3d1TpwJOyhM

 

This song "In Christ Alone" was written by Keith Getty and Stuart Townend.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mPrqltKJyw

[robmac68]

Really????  My oh my, where do i draw this line in the sand?  Do I draw it here today? Nah, too contemporary.  Do I draw it in the 70's or  maybe the 50's?  How about the 1850's??  Nah, that would be too far back, old fashioned and I would ruffle too many feathers.  People do like their pianos and other musical instruments and we know most churches didn't have them back then  Next, people would expect me to draw the line on women wearing pants and we know that is old fashioned.  Hmm, ok, I know. Draw the line in good ole 1980.  We can still have our pianos and organs, that they called "compromise" 100 years ago, but I can still throw some rocks at those who use guitars and sing songs from groups that are too liberal.    

 

Yes, Satan truly is patient and it started a bit farther back then some today are willing to accept. 

[Ukulelemike]

Really????  My oh my, where do i draw this line in the sand?  Do I draw it here today? Nah, too contemporary.  Do I draw it in the 70's or  maybe the 50's?  How about the 1850's??  Nah, that would be too far back, old fashioned and I would ruffle too many feathers.  People do like their pianos and other musical instruments and we know most churches didn't have them back then  Next, people would expect me to draw the line on women wearing pants and we know that is old fashioned.  Hmm, ok, I know. Draw the line in good ole 1980.  We can still have our pianos and organs, that they called "compromise" 100 years ago, but I can still throw some rocks at those who use guitars and sing songs from groups that are too liberal.    

 

Yes, Satan truly is patient and it started a bit farther back then some today are willing to accept. 

A nice bit of sarcasm, there, but I think it shows your ignorance of the subject. And please, I don't use 'ignorance' as an insult, but rather, as my belief that you just don't understand it.

 It ultimately has nothing to do with time, with a tyle that matches some particular period. Hymns have historically been written in a style that is specific to hymns, and really nothing else, though at first it began as a somewhat folk-style, but was used for the hymns and has stuck. Its a style that has ben in use for over 500 years and it is, again, specific to hymns.  Thus, not a period-piece style.

 

"Contemporary" in music, has nothing to do specifically with WHEN a song was written-there a many good, godly hymns and songs written in various times, but are not seen as contemporary. Where music becomes contemporary, is when it seeks to emulate they current popular music styles of the day. The thing you see in CCM is a continual changing of they styles to remain contemporary with secular music styles. Thus, it must always be changing and shifting, always moving. Sure, some of the older songs are still appreciated, but in much the same manner as the nostalgic 'oldies' you might hear on a secular radio station. To be contemporary, it must be current, popular and faddish, all things which Christianity is opposed to, generally-speaking. While there is nothing wrong with many things of the current day, many wonderful tools and such brought by technology, trying to always be in fashion is not one of them.

 

Christianity is specifically about an unchanging attitude, to match an unchanging God and gospel. We read an old book, which, amazingly, in telsef, was written in a style that didn't even exist anywhere in earth when it was written-the KJV is not in the writing style of 1611-rather, it took portions of styles from many periods to more precisely present the meaning of the text. It was never truly 'contemporary' either.

 

We serve an unchanging God, read an unchanging book, preach an unchanging gospel and truth. We are told to seek the old paths, where are the good ways. Why should our music be any different? Why do we want it to fit ANY particular time? Why can't I sing "A Mighty Fortess Is Our God", written in the 16th century, along with 'A Passion For Souls' written in the 20th, and have them fit perfectly together?

 

As for instruments, most are basically neutral-how we use them is what matters. I play ukulele, but I play it in a godly manner as I play hymns. So a guitar, a piano, an organ, or a trumpet, can all be played in a godly manner, or to glorify the flesh. I would draw the line at drums, though in an orchestral setting, where it is not used to maintain a beat, but to accentuate music, I believe would be fine.

 

Yes, Satan is patient, and it began in the garden.

[robmac68]

A nice bit of sarcasm, there, but I think it shows your ignorance of the subject. And please, I don't use 'ignorance' as an insult, but rather, as my belief that you just don't understand it.

 It ultimately has nothing to do with time, with a tyle that matches some particular period. Hymns have historically been written in a style that is specific to hymns, and really nothing else, though at first it began as a somewhat folk-style, but was used for the hymns and has stuck. Its a style that has ben in use for over 500 years and it is, again, specific to hymns.  Thus, not a period-piece style.

 

"Contemporary" in music, has nothing to do specifically with WHEN a song was written-there a many good, godly hymns and songs written in various times, but are not seen as contemporary. Where music becomes contemporary, is when it seeks to emulate they current popular music styles of the day. The thing you see in CCM is a continual changing of they styles to remain contemporary with secular music styles. Thus, it must always be changing and shifting, always moving. Sure, some of the older songs are still appreciated, but in much the same manner as the nostalgic 'oldies' you might hear on a secular radio station. To be contemporary, it must be current, popular and faddish, all things which Christianity is opposed to, generally-speaking. While there is nothing wrong with many things of the current day, many wonderful tools and such brought by technology, trying to always be in fashion is not one of them.

 

Christianity is specifically about an unchanging attitude, to match an unchanging God and gospel. We read an old book, which, amazingly, in telsef, was written in a style that didn't even exist anywhere in earth when it was written-the KJV is not in the writing style of 1611-rather, it took portions of styles from many periods to more precisely present the meaning of the text. It was never truly 'contemporary' either.

 

We serve an unchanging God, read an unchanging book, preach an unchanging gospel and truth. We are told to seek the old paths, where are the good ways. Why should our music be any different? Why do we want it to fit ANY particular time? Why can't I sing "A Mighty Fortess Is Our God", written in the 16th century, along with 'A Passion For Souls' written in the 20th, and have them fit perfectly together?

 

As for instruments, most are basically neutral-how we use them is what matters. I play ukulele, but I play it in a godly manner as I play hymns. So a guitar, a piano, an organ, or a trumpet, can all be played in a godly manner, or to glorify the flesh. I would draw the line at drums, though in an orchestral setting, where it is not used to maintain a beat, but to accentuate music, I believe would be fine.

 

Yes, Satan is patient, and it began in the garden.

I do not feel insulted because you said you believe I am ignorant on a subject.  I am appreciative when someone calls me ignorant and then explains why they believe this, as you did.  I don't particularly like it when it is a hit and run.

 

Anyway, I liked the music being sung by the church choir.  You talk of a "spirit" that goes with the music and that is the spirit of compromise.  If I only hear the music by the church choir and I feel it glorifies God and I get it for my choir, how has my attitude changed?  How have I compromised if my intentions are to Glorify God and I am ignorant as to the roots of a song or who wrote it?  If I am not looking to have it appeal to the people in order to draw them in, but rather Glorifying God, have I compromised?  Should I research the beginnings of all songs in church and the author and try to find out his/her beliefs before we sing it?  That might cause me to throw out all Fanny Crosby stuff. 

[Ukulelemike]

I do not feel insulted because you said you believe I am ignorant on a subject.  I am appreciative when someone calls me ignorant and then explains why they believe this, as you did.  I don't particularly like it when it is a hit and run.

 

Anyway, I liked the music being sung by the church choir.  You talk of a "spirit" that goes with the music and that is the spirit of compromise.  If I only hear the music by the church choir and I feel it glorifies God and I get it for my choir, how has my attitude changed?  How have I compromised if my intentions are to Glorify God and I am ignorant as to the roots of a song or who wrote it?  If I am not looking to have it appeal to the people in order to draw them in, but rather Glorifying God, have I compromised?  Should I research the beginnings of all songs in church and the author and try to find out his/her beliefs before we sing it?  That might cause me to throw out all Fanny Crosby stuff. 

Therein lies the problem and the danger. You like the music-it was re-arranged to more comfortably suit the IFB atmosphere. Many people will never do so much as to investigate who wrote the music, who they are, what they believe-I agree. But the danger lies in the musicians in charge, who are knowingly digging into known CCM work to use, rather than the massive amounts of already-godly music that need no rearrangement to be suitable for use.

 

Lemme give an example.  I have a friend, a preacher, who is a very smart man. He is also a businessman, and seeks to work his business in a manner that pleases and glorifies God. In the church where he serves as an associate pastor, he ad an email ministry for Christian leadership. He wrote articles, recommended books, and the like, for resources Christian leaders and businesspeople could use.

  Now, this man had used a few book from a person, and having read them he was hapy with them and found them godly and helpful. I don't know how much he knew about this man's actual faith and beliefs.  So, when he wrote another book, this preacher quickly recommended it, having had such good response from the earlier ones. He even included a few free pages that could be downloaded for review, a teaser, if you will. So I downloaded it.  

 

  Right in the beginning, there was a quote. I don't remember the actual quote, but I DO remember who was quoted: Lao-Tzu. Heard of him? he was actually Laozi-and he was the founder of Taoism, or Tao Buddhism. First thing, a Buddhist quote. In a book recommended for Christians. Seeing a problem?

 

Fortunately, my wife, before she was saved, was heavinly into the New Age, and while I wasn't familiar with Lao-Tzu, she was, and it set off a warning with her. I contacted the preacher, and wanrned him about it. Praise God he is a humble man, he quicky rescinded the book, and gave a warning about its use. He later admitted he just hadn't researched THAT book, since the others were so good.

 

My point being, just because someone is edified by something and is ignorant of the dangers, doesn't remove the dangers-it just makes them, really, more dangerous and subtle. Most people never look into the dangers o CCM or its adaptation-instead they just slowly begin to slide into an inevitable worldliness. Danger is still danger, even if we don't recognize it. Especially today, as we are in such an information age.

 

As for Fanny Crosby, no one felt they had to alter her music to use it in church-it was good from the day it was first played and sung; the very fact they feel the need to alter it for use should set off a warning bell. Its like taking all the dirty stuff out of a porn movie, because it has an otherwise nice storyline. Why alter the junk, when there are so many other good things out there without having to alter it?

[John81]

Fanny had many bad associations and wrote secular music as well, including music used in burlesque shows. As with most music, her music has been altered to suit churches from then to now, sometimes a little, sometimes a lot. The basis for some of her music, as well as many other songs in our hymnals, were from contemporary secular songs of the time and folk songs.

 

As we look back at the history of hymns we also see that for centuries the church only sang psalms and when the hymns first came on the scene many churches rejected them. That battle continued for a long while. The same is true with regards to musical instruments, from the organ and piano to the guitar and drum and other instruments.

 

Some place a higher standards upon modern song writers than they do upon past song writers, or even some who serve in the church.

 

We have no consistent standard when it comes to music. What was once battled over is now acceptable. Are we compromised because we accept what they didn't?

 

The great psalmist of Israel, David, had many issues, left a mixed legacy, yet was used of God and some of his songs are in Scripture. David used loud music, a wide variety of instruments, and danced vigorously before the Lord.

 

I expect I will actually be greatly surprised as to just what music is played in heaven, and what's not.

[DaveW]

John, while there are examples of hymns that used popular tunes, it was relatively rare.
The vast majority of Fanny Crosby's songs used purpose written tunes. I am hesitant to say all as I don't know that for certain, but she worked with musicians to make the tunes.

Also she was saved as an adult - did she write secular music after her salvation?
I genuinely don't know.

[The Ohio Patriot]

Seems like if we want to be consistent with the other forum where everyone jumped on BlessedSongs we should allow Temple Baptist and Dr. Sexton to answer these statements......

[MatthewDiscipleOfGod]

Seems like if we want to be consistent with the other forum where everyone jumped on BlessedSongs we should allow Temple Baptist and Dr. Sexton to answer these statements......

 

Actually MANY videos were provided. With David Cloud pretty much no information was given. Big difference.

[The Ohio Patriot]

Actually MANY videos were provided. With David Cloud pretty much no information was given. Big difference.

You can make any argument with a video.  I don't suppose anyone has attended any of these services or asked Dr. Sexton how he feels about CCM?

[MatthewDiscipleOfGod]

You can make any argument with a video.  I don't suppose anyone has attended any of these services or asked Dr. Sexton how he feels about CCM?

 

It is his church and he's allowing it. Using your reasoning if someone posted 3 videos of a Catholic, an emergent and a homosexual preaching at his church we couldn't sound an alarm for that. As long as the information for a person to make a reasonable judgement is being presented it isn't gossip. It's pretty clear what is going on in his church.

[DaveW]

It is pretty clear what is going on.

The real question is "Is his use of this music wrong?"

Personally I see no point in posting more of these videos. A few to show the point, but more and more simply exposed any who care to click on them to music which you are condemning.
I would suggest rather post their version and post the name of the writer/artist, but not the associated video. The first two or three display the.point.