Conservatism versus hyper-conservatism?

[farouk]

I like to think that from a theological point of view and even a cultural point of view I'm rather conservative in my outlook. ('What saith the Scriptures?' is a healthy yardstick.) But what might be called hyper-conservatism is sometimes quite different in tone and content.

To be honest, I must admit that I am baffled by some of the other threads which seem to be based on the premise that some cultural customs (whether about certain sports, attire, etc.) being supposedly wrong inherently, thus supposedly rendering people suspect theologically if they don't share the same vehement opposition to them. Put another way, conservatism seems to be vastly different from hyper-conservatism.

Is it just me? or does anyone else feel this way, too?

(Thoughts?)

Edited August 6, 2011 by farouk

[Annie]

I think there's a natural tendency to use our own opinions as the yardstick by which we measure the ideas and opinions of others. All of us think we are "balanced," and tend to think of people who seem to be a few "standard deviations" to the right or left of us on any given issue as "hyper-something." For example, I'm sure some people on here think of me as "a liberal" since I don't see anything wrong with women participating in sports, or wearing modest pants, and am not KJVO. However, others might view me as "a conservative" because I believe that certain art forms (styles of music, for example) demean the gospel, and I wouldn't allow my kids to get tats or pierce their tongues, and I wouldn't send them to public school.

I've found that these terms (hyper-conservative, hyper-liberal, etc.) aren't at all useful in most discussions, because none of us see ourselves as others see us. Assigning labels doesn't aid the free exchange of ideas; it hampers it.

It doesn't bother me that others apply Scripture differently than I do; on the contrary, I rejoice that people are using scripture as their guide to faith and practice. The applications of others aren't my business, although it's fun to throw ideas around in a friendly manner. The thing that bothers me sometimes is when people throw out accusations (or at least negative insinuations) simply because another person is applying scripture differently than they would. It behooves us all to remember that we are not responsible for others, but only for ourselves. We all think differently, and shouldn't be surprised when someone disagrees with us in matters of practice.

Edited August 6, 2011 by Annie

[farouk]

I think there's a natural tendency to use our own opinions as the yardstick by which we measure the ideas and opinions of others. All of us think we are "balanced," and tend to think of people who seem to be a few "standard deviations" to the right or left of us on any given issue as "hyper-something." For example, I'm sure some people on here think of me as "a liberal" since I don't see anything wrong with women participating in sports, or wearing modest pants, and am not KJVO. However, others might view me as "a conservative" because I believe that certain art forms (styles of music, for example) demean the gospel.

I've found that these terms (hyper-conservative, hyper-liberal, etc.) aren't at all useful in most discussions, because none of us see ourselves as others see us. Assigning labels doesn't aid the free exchange of ideas; it hampers it.

I see, yes, ty.

It's a case of defining where what is 'extreme' begins, I suppose, without using the label 'extreme' too often.

I guess my starting point is, the Scriptures offer a perfect balance, although my understanding of them may be far from perfect, so I need to strive for that balance, constantly.

(Anyway, my wife wears pants and I don't make it some sort of issue of theology.)

Blessings.

[DennisD]

I think there's a natural tendency to use our own opinions as the yardstick by which we measure the ideas and opinions of others. All of us think we are "balanced," and tend to think of people who seem to be a few "standard deviations" to the right or left of us on any given issue as "hyper-something." For example, I'm sure some people on here think of me as "a liberal" since I don't see anything wrong with women participating in sports, or wearing modest pants, and am not KJVO. However, others might view me as "a conservative" because I believe that certain art forms (styles of music, for example) demean the gospel, and I wouldn't allow my kids to get tats or pierce their tongues, and I wouldn't send them to public school.

I've found that these terms (hyper-conservative, hyper-liberal, etc.) aren't at all useful in most discussions, because none of us see ourselves as others see us. Assigning labels doesn't aid the free exchange of ideas; it hampers it.

It doesn't bother me that others apply Scripture differently than I do; on the contrary, I rejoice that people are using scripture as their guide to faith and practice. The applications of others aren't my business, although it's fun to throw ideas around in a friendly manner. The thing that bothers me sometimes is when people throw out accusations (or at least negative insinuations) simply because another person is applying scripture differently than they would. It behooves us all to remember that we are not responsible for others, but only for ourselves. We all think differently, and shouldn't be surprised when someone disagrees with us in matters of practice.

I don't think I'm "balanced". I'm hyper conservative. :clapping:

[Annie]

I see, yes, ty.

It's a case of defining where what is 'extreme' begins, I suppose, without using the label 'extreme' too often.

I guess my starting point is, the Scriptures offer a perfect balance, although my understanding of them may be far from perfect, so I need to strive for that balance, constantly.

(Anyway, my wife wears pants and I don't make it some sort of issue of theology.)

Blessings.

Right...Since Scripture doesn't spell out every issue of practice, it is up to us as individuals and local churches to read what Scripture says, evaluate other factors (like culture), and make informed, thought-through, discerning decisions about how we should live. When it comes to particulars, we shouldn't expect everyone else to reach the same conclusions we do, or even to understand why we've arrived at the conclusions we have. It's not a stranger's business to critique that sort of thing. That's the Holy Spirit's job. However, if we are willing to discuss various issues in a friendly way, we put ourselves in the place of at least understanding where our Christian brothers and sisters are coming from, which can be beneficial on all sides. Marginalizing someone as "hyper-conservative" creates a barrier where unity should reign.

I respect the opinions of Miss Linda, even though I don't agree with her on certain issues. Same with John and LuAnne and others I've interacted with in this forum. As a fellow believer in Christ, I can be edified by their insights, even if I don't agree with them completely. It would be prideful to imagine that I have all the answers about everything, and that everyone else (even those I might think of as "hyper conservative") is dead wrong. I'm sure I'm wrong about many things, and it's great to be able to participate in a forum where ideas can be challenged and informed some more.

I think it's a mistake to get so caught up in "issues-driven" debates that we fail to see how very similar we all are as children of God. Edited August 6, 2011 by Annie

[farouk]

Right...Since Scripture doesn't spell out every issue of practice, it is up to us as individuals and local churches to read what Scripture says, evaluate other factors (like culture), and make informed, thought-through, discerning decisions about how we should live. When it comes to particulars, we shouldn't expect everyone else to reach the same conclusions we do, or even to understand why we've arrived at the conclusions we have. It's not a stranger's business to critique that sort of thing. That's the Holy Spirit's job. However, if we are willing to discuss various issues in a friendly way, we put ourselves in the place of at least understanding where our Christian brothers and sisters are coming from, which can be beneficial on all sides. Marginalizing someone as "hyper-conservative" creates a barrier where unity should reign.

I respect the opinions of Miss Linda, even though I don't agree with her on certain issues. Same with John and LuAnne and others I've interacted with in this forum. As a fellow believer in Christ, I can be edified by their insights, even if I don't agree with them completely. It would be prideful to imagine that I have all the answers about everything, and that everyone else (even those I might think of as "hyper conservative") is dead wrong.

I think it's a mistake to get so caught up in "issues-driven" debates that we fail to see how very similar we all are as children of God.

Some good and helpful thoughts there, thank-you.

Such input is helpful and maybe there is also a better term than 'hyper-conservative'.

In any case, rather than being ad hominem, it's more about mindsets, and we can all continuously benefit from having our own individual mindsets informed and fashioned by Scripture's broad scope of revelation.

(If this makes sense.)

[Annie]

Some good and helpful thoughts there, thank-you.

Such input is helpful and maybe there is also a better term than 'hyper-conservative'.

In any case, rather than being ad hominem, it's more about mindsets, and we can all continuously benefit from having our own individual mindsets informed and fashioned by Scripture's broad scope of revelation.

(If this makes sense.)

It does make sense, and I agree. Focusing on Scripture and living by it (rather than worrying about how others might apply Scripture differently than I do, and coming up with labels for them) is what it's all about. Edited August 6, 2011 by Annie

[farouk]

It does make sense, and I agree. Focusing on Scripture and living by it (rather than worrying about how others might apply Scripture differently than I do, and coming up with labels for them) is what it's all about.

Ms Annie:

Yes, 'worrying' is wrong. Like you say, we will all interpret some things differently. But then this is part of the mindset in question (or whatever one calls it) whereby only those who interpret it as I do, can really be sound theologically, supposedly. Anyway, I shouldn't worry about what ppl think of my wife's pants, etc. or young ppl's earrings etc., or sports, etc., and, like you say, focus on Scripture and living by it, right.

Blessings. Edited August 6, 2011 by farouk

[Covenanter]

Theological "labels" are very useful - once we have labelled an opponent we have defined his views & can put him in a box & put the lid on.

[John81]

I like to think that from a theological point of view and even a cultural point of view I'm rather conservative in my outlook. ('What saith the Scriptures?' is a healthy yardstick.) But what might be called hyper-conservatism is sometimes quite different in tone and content.

To be honest, I must admit that I am baffled by some of the other threads which seem to be based on the premise that some cultural customs (whether about certain sports, attire, etc.) being supposedly wrong inherently, thus supposedly rendering people suspect theologically if they don't share the same vehement opposition to them. Put another way, conservatism seems to be vastly different from hyper-conservatism.

Is it just me? or does anyone else feel this way, too?

(Thoughts?)

I've never heard of a hyper-conservative. I've heard of conservatives, neo-conservatives and paleo-conservatives.

In any event, if one is using Scripture as the yardstick they will be viewed as extreme if they actually believe and follow the Scriptures.

Scripture is not unclear with regards to things such as attire and pertains to all cultures. Modesty is clearly taught for all. Not conforming to the way of the world is clearly taught. It doesn't matter what culture one is in, most of the body is to be covered in a modest manner when in public or the company of those not ones spouse.

Even where Scripture doesn't give a direct command or statement, Scripture provides an abundance of principles for us to apply to everything in life.

What we see today is most Christians wanting to have a Burger King Christianity, they want to have it their way. Scripture is clear on dressing modestly yet most Christians dress the same or nearly the same as the immodest world dresses.

Look at the many Christians today who call themselves Christians yet they don't follow Christ; they follow their own lusts, the ways of the world, their own will. Professing Christians flock to the R-rated movies where they hear the name of Jesus profaned continuously, where sinful sex is seen in detail and in an approving manner, where the "morals" of the world are promoted and other ungodly things are put into the hearts and minds of those viewing.

What does Jesus say? If you love me you will keep my commandments. If we want to follow Christ we are called to deny self, live for Christ, even to the point of it being Christ living in us and not ourselves. How many professing Christians even attempt this let alone actually strive for this? Most professing Christians want to have the security they feel in saying they are Christian while refusing or outright rejecting following Christ.

Jesus asked why so many call Him Lord yet don't do as He commands. Jesus warned the day will come when many will stand before Him declaring they are His yet He will tell them plainly He never knew them and cast them away.

Scripture doesn't call folks to profess to be Christian and follow the world, Scripture calls for actual disciples who follow Christ. We are warned to examine our faith to be sure of our salvation.

[irishman]

AMEN!!

[1John2:15-17]

If one looks worldly (inappropriate jewelry, immodest clothing, etc), walks worldly (doing worldly things), and talks worldly, then one must be worldly (and not walking right with God). A child walking/striving to walk with The Lord should not be anything like this. We are called to be separate. We should look different, act different (when compared to the world).

Call me conservative, call me narrow-minded....I'm as narrow minded as God's word.

[Annie]

If one looks worldly (inappropriate jewelry, immodest clothing, etc), walks worldly (doing worldly things), and talks worldly, then one must be worldly (and not walking right with God). A child walking/striving to walk with The Lord should not be anything like this. We are called to be separate. We should look different, act different (when compared to the world).

Call me conservative, call me narrow-minded....I'm as narrow minded as God's word.

I think every Christian would agree with you on this...It's not "hyper-conservative" to think this way; it's biblical. Where Christians differ (and where labels begin to be thrown out) is on what practices/behaviors/ways of thinking are considered "worldly." I don't think pants on women are "worldly"; others do. I enjoy reading the Narnia books and the LOTR books and the Harry Potter books; others would call that "wordly." I wouldn't put my kids into a public school; others would. swim?

[farouk]

I agree with what various ppl have said, and the truth of separation is very important: separation from the world and separation to God.

Romans 14, about Christian liberty, is important, too.

(I guess the label part of it is rather subjective; their meaning can differ from one person to another.)

We will all interpret some things differently. But as mentioned in response to Annie's good post, I shouldn't worry about what ppl think, e.g., of my wife's pants, etc. or young ppl's earrings etc., or sports, etc., because it's best to focus on Scripture and living by it.

Edited August 6, 2011 by farouk

[amblivion]

I like to think that from a theological point of view and even a cultural point of view I'm rather conservative in my outlook. ('What saith the Scriptures?' is a healthy yardstick.) But what might be called hyper-conservatism is sometimes quite different in tone and content.

To be honest, I must admit that I am baffled by some of the other threads which seem to be based on the premise that some cultural customs (whether about certain sports, attire, etc.) being supposedly wrong inherently, thus supposedly rendering people suspect theologically if they don't share the same vehement opposition to them. Put another way, conservatism seems to be vastly different from hyper-conservatism.

Is it just me? or does anyone else feel this way, too?

(Thoughts?)

My pastor preached a very good message a few weeks back. He preached on the liberty of Christ. 2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. He preached that there is an even balance of living in liberty and puting oneself under bondage and subjecting oneself to rules that don't exist. While I have seen many people do this including myself when I was growing up, I am thankful that God brought me out of the bondage I put myself in. As I have said before, Christianity isn't about a set of rules that says do this, don't do that and living in fear of judgment. These rules may exist, but it is about the relationship with Christ. As a person grows closer to Christ, he/she will want to follow Christ and be Christ-like. I generally can have fellowship with people who put themselves under bondage, but it can be quite difficult when they start accusing me and judging me of not following Scriptures even though Scripture may not be clear on the matter (ex. playing cards).