Where Are They?

[HappyChristian]

Of course, they mix a few godly things with all their worldly stuff, that is their way to try to gain Christian votes, they were not born yesterday. Its politics, and politics is not godly.

No-one ever said politics is godly. But there are many things we have to do in the course of our day that we could say isn't godly. I hate going to the grocery store because there's booze, there are magazines, skimpy dressers, vulgar mouth, undisciplined children, etc. But that is part of life. And so is politics.

I don't think Tea Party people went after Christians. I think a lot of Christians like the idea of reining in government - after the fashion of our founders. And that is what's drawn many of them to the Tea Party. I know of several groups who are all Christians.

And not all Tea Partiers who are against abortion (just for example) are against it because God is. Some are against it just because they know it's wrong - but it stems from the Christian values that used to be what this country was all about.

I honestly don't know if the Tea Party will become an actual party. They have to this point simply tried to promote truly Conservative (and in many cases, Christian) candidates within the GOP. I know that many are hoping the GOP will change. It's been tried before and it has failed. It could very well do so again. And that would be, basically, because Christ has been left out, as John (and you, in past discussions, Jerry8) pointed out.

[John81]

There was a split in a nearby Tea Party because of infighting over whether "social issues" should be addressed or ignored. There have been many calls within the Tea Party movement, as well as within the GOP, to cast "social issues" aside and unite everyone on economic issues only.

There is nothing wrong with trying to correct economic prOBlems, but to have such as the main focus isn't helpful. Once enough people believe their economic situation is made better the movement dies.

The few bandages Reagan managed to apply were unable to keep America from moving contiually to the left so that we now have a leftist-socialist in the White House and a congress full of the same.

We need a movement with an eternal foundation rather than a temporary one that will fade away and allow the wicked to quickly fill the gap yet again.

It's interesting to note that Reagan came in with a landslide victory against a sitting president based mostly upon his promise of jOBs, a better economy and a stronger America. The first few years of his presidency saw the economy get worse. Those who had helped elect Reagan were either denying they had voted for him or denouncing their support. To Reagan's credit he held to his position and the economy did indeed pick up prior to the next election and fickle people once again rallied to him and gave him another vote victory.

Bill Clinton won the presidency promising jOBs. That election especially turned almost entirely upon people voting for their wallets. Once the people felt comfortable again their zeal was gone and Gore couldn't even manage to win though Clinton ended his presidency with the country seemingly okay.

Like I said, nothing wrong with addressing economic issues, but such shouldn't be the centerpiece and any movement with such as it's basis won't last. We (Christians) need something much more substantial because in the end it's the "social issues" that are destroying our country, leading America further from God.

[JerryNumbers]

Presidents are elected by promising prosperity. And that is what gets the attention of most professing Christians. Do we ever show contentment?

1Ti 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.

1Ti 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.

Php 4:11 Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content.
Php 4:12 I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need.
Php 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Of course not, as least most professing Christians do not, we're out there joining our self together with most anyone that we think can bring us more prosperity, for prosperity is the America way.

I recall hearing several republicans saying, we need to get this God thing out of our party of we are going to take back America.

[heartstrings]

Presidents are elected by promising prosperity. And that is what gets the attention of most professing Christians. Do we ever show contentment?

1Ti 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.

1Ti 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.

Php 4:11 Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content.
Php 4:12 I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need.
Php 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Of course not, as least most professing Christians do not, we're out there joining our self together with most anyone that we think can bring us more prosperity, for prosperity is the America way.

I recall hearing several republicans saying, we need to get this God thing out of our party of we are going to take back America.

Really? And who are the roughly 50% of Americans who at least try to vote for conservatives? I certainly don't vote for the Bill Clintons, John Kerry's and Al Gores of this world and I certainly didn't vote for OBama. Most of the Christians I know don't vote for any man who is for things like abortion, no matter how much "prosperity" he promises.

[John81]

Presidents are elected by promising prosperity. And that is what gets the attention of most professing Christians. Do we ever show contentment?

1Ti 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.

1Ti 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.

Php 4:11 Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content.
Php 4:12 I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need.
Php 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Of course not, as least most professing Christians do not, we're out there joining our self together with most anyone that we think can bring us more prosperity, for prosperity is the America way.

I recall hearing several republicans saying, we need to get this God thing out of our party of we are going to take back America.

I've heard many professing Christians say they have to be "practical" when voting. They won't vote for the most godly candidate because they don't believe they can win, they won't vote for the most constitutional candidate because they don't think he can win and they fear losing benefits, but they are more than willing to choose a "lesser evil" candidate that promises them good economic times.

Contentment is little taught and even less held to. One is more likely to hear professing Christians talking about how to build up their retirment accounts, take a vacation, buy a new car, get more stuff for their hOBbies, and how will they manage to do all this if the economy doesn't pick up than to discuss how blessed they are of the Lord to have what they do.

[John81]

Really? And who are the roughly 50% of Americans who at least try to vote for conservatives? I certainly don't vote for the Bill Clintons, John Kerry's and Al Gores of this world and I certainly didn't vote for OBama. Most of the Christians I know don't vote for any man who is for things like abortion, no matter how much "prosperity" he promises.

So far, the so-called conservatives have failed (refused) to end abortion, put a halt to the acceptance of homosexuality and the push for homosexual "marriage", end government programs which promotes broken families, etc. Whether these politicians proclaim they are pro-abortion or not, if they are unwilling to stand and fight against abortion they are a part of the prOBlem just the same as those who do support abortion.

50% of American voters don't support the most conservative candidates. They will often talk them up and proclaim how they would love to see them run, but when they do run they don't back them. Most self-proclaimed conservative voters lean towards the more "moderate" (warmed over liberal) candidates. In doing this they often split their vote and end up with something even worse.

When supposed conservatives are running the government they don't end unconstitutional, ungodly and anti-family government programs. Instead, they increase spending for such! What good are they?

In the last presidential cycle the so-called conservative voters were torn mostly between Huckabee, Romney and McCain. None are true conservatives and yet they were held up as such but the voters couldn't decide upon who to give their votes to so McCain won by default.

Many of the so-called conservative voters said Huckabee was "too Christian", too conservative on social issues. Some didn't care if Romney was a Mormon but others did and he was viewed as possibly too conservative in some areas and not enough in others. McCain was hailed as a conservative based mainly upon him having been a POW and supporting the Iraq war. For some "conservative" voters that was enough, never mind his unconservative stances elsewhere throughout his career.

And we can't forget all the professing Christians who rallied to Hillary and BO.

Pastor after pastor talks about how their congregations are made up of Dems and Repubs; this even among the more conservative churches.

Many professing Christians don't base their politics upon the Word of God, but on tradition or what they believe is practical sense for their own benefit.

[JerryNumbers]

I've heard many professing Christians say they have to be "practical" when voting. They won't vote for the most godly candidate because they don't believe they can win, they won't vote for the most constitutional candidate because they don't think he can win and they fear losing benefits, but they are more than willing to choose a "lesser evil" candidate that promises them good economic times.

Contentment is little taught and even less held to. One is more likely to hear professing Christians talking about how to build up their retirment accounts, take a vacation, buy a new car, get more stuff for their hOBbies, and how will they manage to do all this if the economy doesn't pick up than to discuss how blessed they are of the Lord to have what they do.

Of course, with most professing Christians its about prosperity, and so far the republican party has had a few of the Christian values in their platform hoping to capture the Christian votes, and many Christians are throwing in with them. Yet as I mentioned else where, there have been several article written about some of the republicans saying, we've got to shed this God thing, standing against homosexuals and abortion, if we expect to capture the White House.

Oh, and one thing many fail to understand, republican conservatism does not equal Christian conservatives.

[John81]

Of course, with most professing Christians its about prosperity, and so far the republican party has had a few of the Christian values in their platform hoping to capture the Christian votes, and many Christians are throwing in with them. Yet as I mentioned else where, there have been several article written about some of the republicans saying, we've got to shed this God thing, standing against homosexuals and abortion, if we expect to capture the White House.

Oh, and one thing many fail to understand, republican conservatism does not equal Christian conservatives.

I know many professing Christians saying they had to vote for Clinton for the sake of jOBs and there was nothing wrong with that because he was a Baptist. When BO ran, I heard much the same thing, they said BO was needed to fix the economy and he's a Christian so there's nothing wrong with voting for him.

No doub the Repub Party has been tossing verbal bones to the Christians and conservatives for years but never give out any meat. They talk the talk for votes during election cycles but they don't walk the walk.

[Wilchbla]

During the past 30 years there have been many movements hailed as the answer for Christians and conservatives. These were proclaimed to be the means by which Christianity and traditional Americanism would be restored. Christians and conservatives flocked to them for a time. Then what?

Following is a list of some of these movements:

Moral Majority

Reagan Revolution

Republican Revolution (Gingrich congress and Contract with America)

Promise Keepers (they even managed to gather between 1.5 and 3 million men on the Mall in DC)

Of course there were others, including the Perot movement which spawned a new Party, but the above are prOBably most notable and recognized by most.

Today we have the Tea Party movement and the same proclamations made about the previous movements are now made about this one. What happened to the other movements? Why did all of them fail to "restore America"? Where did all the people go who were once so fired up in these movements? Why is America so much worse off today than 30 years ago even though all these movements had such large support and potential?

Does anyone see the Tea Party being able to break this losing cycle? How could they possibly do so?

Why, after all these years and all these "Christian and conservative" movements have the liberal-socialists continually gained strength and seen their agenda continually moved forward or holding steady?

Feel free to expand on any of this or even to introduce more.

I remember reading Charles Colson's book Kingdoms in Conflict. He figured that Christians would be able to legislate Christianity in America and eventually we would have a born again President (a form of Christian Reconstructionism). I thought it was a ridiculous idea then and even more now.

[John81]

I remember reading Charles Colson's book Kingdoms in Conflict. He figured that Christians would be able to legislate Christianity in America and eventually we would have a born again President (a form of Christian Reconstructionism). I thought it was a ridiculous idea then and even more now.

Agreed. That's been one of the major prOBlems over the past few decades. Too many professing Christians looking to politics to bring about Christian reformation in America rather than following the Word of God in this matter.

[JerryNumbers]

I remember reading Charles Colson's book Kingdoms in Conflict. He figured that Christians would be able to legislate Christianity in America and eventually we would have a born again President (a form of Christian Reconstructionism). I thought it was a ridiculous idea then and even more now.

I can see how in years gone by some would have thought that, yet in later years the ungodly have gotten very out spoken, bold, and they have no shame of their sins of which they use to hide in the dark, now they do them and talk about them in the open. And now they're a force to reckon with, sadly, they will grow even stronger..

[Invicta]

I don't think there will ever be a Christian government, and I think it is unbiblical to try. We tried it in England during the Commonwealth and it was a disaster. Likewise Calvin in Geneva, and the Anabaptists in Munster.

[Brother Rick]

I don't think there will ever be a Christian government, and I think it is unbiblical to try. We tried it in England during the Commonwealth and it was a disaster. Likewise Calvin in Geneva, and the Anabaptists in Munster.

I agree. The only real Christian government will be the one run by Jesus Christ Himself.

[John81]

I don't think there will ever be a Christian government, and I think it is unbiblical to try. We tried it in England during the Commonwealth and it was a disaster. Likewise Calvin in Geneva, and the Anabaptists in Munster.

I don't know if it's unbiblical to try and establish a Christian government, but I agree there won't be one established by us (people).

One of the prOBlems with the American form of government is they tried to form it with a mix of Christian principles and philosophies of John Locke and others. The biggest prOBlem was doing this without have Christ at the center. Even some of the Founders acknowledged the government put forth would only work if led by morally upright men. Without Christ, such men don't exist. As history shows, it wasn't long before men began corrupting the government and twisting the Constitution. Now look at us, in worse shape than when we began!

[JerryNumbers]

From what I've read Calvin did not run a Christian government, he ran a Calvin government based on what he wanted, not a government based on biblical principles.

I don't feel America will ever have a Christian government. That is not a real Christian government. For if a person ran for the office of President of this United States, and stood on true Bible principles such as, one is saved only by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, not of self, not of works, its a gift of God, there would be very little denominational support given him. For only the minority of Christians in this United States actually stand son that truth. Most believe that you cannot be saved in that manner, most teach its of works, baptizing, and or church membership.

I would love a true Christian government.

Near the end of Jesus' 'thousand year' reign there will be a big rebellion because people, that is most of them, for they do not like the way Jesus' rules. Why? For they want everything to their favor, and they really do not want true peace unless its to their favor.