Pastor weighing plans to burn Qurans amid U.S. warnings

[HappyChristian]

Interesting...

I would say that Gen. Petraeus has guts. I would say my son has guts. I would say that others in the military with whom this issue has been discussed have guts...and they are ALL against this burning.

Yes, it will put the troops in MORE danger. And it will put Americans overseas in MORE danger. And it will put Americans here in America in MORE danger.

Tell me how this fits with what Christ said to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves? Tell me where this follows our injunction to win people to Christ because the LOVE of Christ constrains us? No, muslims aren't getting saved in droves, but you know what? There are some getting saved. Even if there weren't, this would still be wrong.

I am all in favor of wiping out the enemy - but that isn't what this is. This is simply a gesture, and not a very wise one, either.

Am I scared of them? No - I'm mad. And I wish we would just take care of them once and for all. But it isn't going to happen in this administration because this POTUS is uber sympathetic to them. Playing into their hands like this and giving cause for others to sympathize with the "peaceful" muslims is exactly what is going to happen here.

Personally, I think it takes guts to stand up and tell this pastor that he's nuts and shouldn't be doing this. And apparently it takes guts to say he's wrong even on a Christian forum.

BTW - since when do IFB consider pentecostal preachers who share their pulpits with their wives fundamentalist Christians?

[John81]

It won't do this. The troops are ALREADY in danger. What, do you thinks the Islamic terrorists just "kinda-sorta" hate us and want us "kinda-sorta" dead? Kinda like they only "kinda-sorta" hated us before 9/11?

A fundamentalist Christian believes his book and gets out there and looks like a nut preaching on a street corner somewhere, handing out tracts, and boldly standing for what is right. He wouldn't hurt a fly.

A fundamentalist Muslim believes his book and does everything he can to force anyone and everyone else to submit to Islam. He'll slit your throat, your wife's throat, and your children's throat without batting an eye. He is a fundamentalist; he believes what his book says and tells him to do.

You think being nice to him will change that? You think burning his book will make him want to kill us even more?

Please.



The actions of one pastor are not going to make the rest of the world hate us anymore then they already do. They hate us for our worldliness, our prosperity, our freedom, and the fact that we're not Islamic or Communistic. Ironically, the European and Australian people who can't stand us would find themselves in a "tight spot" if we weren't here to stand up to China and Russia.



It may drive a few Muslims away. You know, they're just getting saved by the droves and all.

Overall, it will do nothing to effect evangelism one way or another. If anything, red blooded Americans that are sick of the pandering that our country is giving a murderous religion will appreciate someone taking an aggressive stand.



Peace?

Did you say PEACE?

Are you kidding me?

You've got to be joking!

I'm going to fall off my chair!

Why you can't seriously think that you can have peace with fundamentalist Muslims, can you? They are heartless barbarians that have attacked our innocent citizens over and over and over again, whether we go to war with them or not!

The only peace you're are going to get with these people is when the Prince of Peace returns, and He's going to be much more "radical" in His method of dealing with them then just burning books.



The question is, is it right or wrong, BIBLICALLY, to do this. If you rely on human reasoning, then by all means, take a stand and burn the books! The Bible may say something differently though.

Don't hold back Rick, tell me, how do you really feel?

Something I heard on the radio made this even sound along the lines of this: if Muslims attack America/Americans then we will burn their Koran.

Okay then, let's consider that idea.

Muslims are attacking Americans around the glOBe with or without any provocation. This has been going on for decades (for the younger folks here, yes, this has been a decades long situation).

Suppose the Muslims are told that for every American soldier killed by them, 100 Korans will be burned. For every act of terror, 1,000 will go up in smoke. (just pulling numbers out of the air, make up your own if you prefer)

The word is put out that no Korans will be burned if they don't provoke that action. If any Korans are burned it's because of Muslim actions and the burned Korans are on their heads.

In any event, had the media not made this into their pet story with their typical intention of making Christians look bad and getting Christians to back down to them while getting "mainstream" Christians to follow in lockstep denouncing this to further divide and weaken Christianity, this would be a non-story very few would know or care about.

[John81]

Interesting...

I would say that Gen. Petraeus has guts. I would say my son has guts. I would say that others in the military with whom this issue has been discussed have guts...and they are ALL against this burning.

Yes, it will put the troops in MORE danger. And it will put Americans overseas in MORE danger. And it will put Americans here in America in MORE danger.

Tell me how this fits with what Christ said to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves? Tell me where this follows our injunction to win people to Christ because the LOVE of Christ constrains us? No, muslims aren't getting saved in droves, but you know what? There are some getting saved. Even if there weren't, this would still be wrong.

I am all in favor of wiping out the enemy - but that isn't what this is. This is simply a gesture, and not a very wise one, either.

Am I scared of them? No - I'm mad. And I wish we would just take care of them once and for all. But it isn't going to happen in this administration because this POTUS is uber sympathetic to them. Playing into their hands like this and giving cause for others to sympathize with the "peaceful" muslims is exactly what is going to happen here.

Personally, I think it takes guts to stand up and tell this pastor that he's nuts and shouldn't be doing this. And apparently it takes guts to say he's wrong even on a Christian forum.

BTW - since when do IFB consider pentecostal preachers who share their pulpits with their wives fundamentalist Christians?

I've only heard this pastor called an "evangelical" in the media. Most often, the media view evangelicals as fundamentalists and don't like any of them.

General Petraeus may or may not believe his statements regarding this event. He's sitting in the crosshairs and must abide by the OBama playbook. He must remain silent when he would rather speak up and speak out when he would rather keep silent. We can't know his true view for certain.

Muslims are going to attack our troops and commit acts of terror no matter what we do...unless we roll over and become Muslims ourselves.

As put forth, I can't say I'm in agreement with the planned event, but I don't know the truth of things either.

The fact this pastor didn't cave in quickly at least hints that he's sincere and serious about believing this is something he shold do.

Of course we still have 3 days to go so who knows what will transpire. Some governmental agency may take steps to prevent this event. The pastor may call it off at the last minute. Maybe someone will buy somebody off. Maybe this is a TV movie in the making.

[CPR]

Interesting...

I would say that Gen. Petraeus has guts. I would say my son has guts. I would say that others in the military with whom this issue has been discussed have guts...and they are ALL against this burning.

Yes, it will put the troops in MORE danger. And it will put Americans overseas in MORE danger. And it will put Americans here in America in MORE danger.

Tell me how this fits with what Christ said to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves? Tell me where this follows our injunction to win people to Christ because the LOVE of Christ constrains us? No, muslims aren't getting saved in droves, but you know what? There are some getting saved. Even if there weren't, this would still be wrong.

I am all in favor of wiping out the enemy - but that isn't what this is. This is simply a gesture, and not a very wise one, either.

Am I scared of them? No - I'm mad. And I wish we would just take care of them once and for all. But it isn't going to happen in this administration because this POTUS is uber sympathetic to them. Playing into their hands like this and giving cause for others to sympathize with the "peaceful" muslims is exactly what is going to happen here.

Personally, I think it takes guts to stand up and tell this pastor that he's nuts and shouldn't be doing this. And apparently it takes guts to say he's wrong even on a Christian forum.

BTW - since when do IFB consider pentecostal preachers who share their pulpits with their wives fundamentalist Christians?

Very true. It takes real guts to be against something 100% yet still defend someone's right to do it. That is what those in the military are going to be doing on 9/11 whether or not this burning takes place. They will be in harm's way even more so than normal for something many of them disagree with. However, they will still defend the right to do it as will many politicians and others.

[chev1958]

Does anybody remember the Army chaplain burning Bibles with the trash a couple of years ago in Afghanistan? PrOBably not. The "burning Korans" story has received more media attention than that story did.

[John81]

Does anybody remember the Army chaplain burning Bibles with the trash a couple of years ago in Afghanistan? PrOBably not. The "burning Korans" story has received more media attention than that story did.

I was wondering if anyone would mention that.

This is a media driven story that wouldn't even be newsworthy if they were not trying to push their own agenda.

[HappyChristian]

Don't hold back Rick, tell me, how do you really feel?

Something I heard on the radio made this even sound along the lines of this: if Muslims attack America/Americans then we will burn their Koran.

Okay then, let's consider that idea.

Muslims are attacking Americans around the glOBe with or without any provocation. This has been going on for decades (for the younger folks here, yes, this has been a decades long situation).

Suppose the Muslims are told that for every American soldier killed by them, 100 Korans will be burned. For every act of terror, 1,000 will go up in smoke. (just pulling numbers out of the air, make up your own if you prefer)

The word is put out that no Korans will be burned if they don't provoke that action. If any Korans are burned it's because of Muslim actions and the burned Korans are on their heads.
My son read this and said, "That'll work. It's somewhat similar to what Gen. McArthur did." Referring to when he dipped bullets in pigs blood and killed all but one captured muslim soldier in the Philippines, then sent him back to warn them that they would be dipping all their bullets in pigs blood if they didn't stop attacking. It worked.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Don't hold back Rick, tell me, how do you really feel?

Something I heard on the radio made this even sound along the lines of this: if Muslims attack America/Americans then we will burn their Koran.

Okay then, let's consider that idea.

Muslims are attacking Americans around the glOBe with or without any provocation. This has been going on for decades (for the younger folks here, yes, this has been a decades long situation).

Suppose the Muslims are told that for every American soldier killed by them, 100 Korans will be burned. For every act of terror, 1,000 will go up in smoke. (just pulling numbers out of the air, make up your own if you prefer)

The word is put out that no Korans will be burned if they don't provoke that action. If any Korans are burned it's because of Muslim actions and the burned Korans are on their heads.

In any event, had the media not made this into their pet story with their typical intention of making Christians look bad and getting Christians to back down to them while getting "mainstream" Christians to follow in lockstep denouncing this to further divide and weaken Christianity, this would be a non-story very few would know or care about.

This, I find very interesting.

Maybe instead of the News Media putting out broadcasts that "Pastor So-and-so is planning on burning x amount of Qurans in protest to the blasphemous writings found therein," they should put out world-wide broadcasts stating that if the persecution and killings of Christians does not stop, they we commence to burning the Quran... x amount for x act against Christianity.

I highly doubt it would work. The Word of God tells us that those who live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. So threats of book burning isn't going to stop one who has murder on his mind.

Here's a better idea...

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; (Mt 5:44 KJV)

Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not. (Ro 12:14 KJV)

I really do not consider book burning to be an act of violence if the books being burned are the property of the one doing the burning. However, I do believe it could be an act of war if the one doing the burning knows that it will incite anger in another to the point that that one will retaliate with violence. Edited September 8, 2010 by Standing Firm In Christ

[trc123]

Please remind me again how this fits in with this....

Mat 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
Mat 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Mat 5:40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.
Mat 5:41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.

and this....

Luk 6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.
Luk 6:27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
Luk 6:28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
Luk 6:29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also.
Luk 6:30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
Luk 6:31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

[Brother Rick]

Please remind me again how this fits in with this....

Mat 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
Mat 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Mat 5:40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.
Mat 5:41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.

and this....

Luk 6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.
Luk 6:27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
Luk 6:28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
Luk 6:29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also.
Luk 6:30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
Luk 6:31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

Good points, TRC. This is how you make an argument, from the Bible. I respect it and appreciate it.

No doubt on an individual level we are to treat Muslims according to how Christ told us to, with love and all that stuff that doesn't exactly come natural.

However, on a corporate level, does the same principle apply? Are we to hold our hands without protest? Is it wrong to picket an abortion clinic? To peacefully take a stand against Gay pride rally downtown?

Matt. 5:19, "Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men."

We are to be the salt, we are to take public and open stands against what is wrong. I'm still undecided on this, like I said before.

The question is, is publically burning a Koran going too far?

On a national level, the kingdom of Heaven suffereth violence and the violent take it by force. There will be no peace until the Prince of Peace comes back. God is a God of War, He is not a pacifist. I really, really like the idea of burning a Koran for every act they do from hereon out. I've heard the story about the blood soaked bullets, and history bears witness to that being effective.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Good points, TRC. This is how you make an argument, from the Bible. I respect it and appreciate it.

No doubt on an individual level we are to treat Muslims according to how Christ told us to, with love and all that stuff that doesn't exactly come natural.

However, on a corporate level, does the same principle apply? Are we to hold our hands without protest? Is it wrong to picket an abortion clinic? To peacefully take a stand against Gay pride rally downtown?

Matt. 5:19, "Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men."

We are to be the salt, we are to take public and open stands against what is wrong. I'm still undecided on this, like I said before.

The question is, is publically burning a Koran going too far?

On a national level, the kingdom of Heaven suffereth violence and the violent take it by force. There will be no peace until the Prince of Peace comes back. God is a God of War, He is not a pacifist. I really, really like the idea of burning a Koran for every act they do from hereon out. I've heard the story about the blood soaked bullets, and history bears witness to that being effective.

But the question is, will it really stop those who already have murder in their hearts? Of will that which is in their hearts manifest itself eventually regardless of another's actions?

[Brother Rick]

But the question is, will it really stop those who already have murder in their hearts? Of will that which is in their hearts manifest itself eventually regardless of another's actions?

I respectfully disagree.

The question is not will it stop them or not. This isn't about changing them, trying to get them to stop, trying to appease them, trying to win their hearts and minds, or even (gag me) trying to discover why they hate us so much.

It's about taking an open and public stand against wickedness.

Should we not protest abortion clinics because the doctors will kill the babies no matter what?

Should we not protest a militant gay rally because the sodomites will continue in their depravity?

See my point? We're supposed to go against the grain of this world, regardless the outcome. Jeremiah never stopped preaching even though he never got a convert.

Like John pointed out, if you are going to judge what is extreme by the actions surrounding the people committing the wickedness, then burning a Koran in protest to a vile and wicked religion is very mild in comparison to chopping off Nick Berg's head with a dull machete and the MANY other atrocities they've committed.

Building a mosque on ground zero might be legal, but it's immoral and unethical and it's not a question of IF people should protest it, it's a matter of HOW they should.

[trc123]

I respectfully disagree.

The question is not will it stop them or not. This isn't about changing them, trying to get them to stop, trying to appease them, trying to win their hearts and minds, or even (gag me) trying to discover why they hate us so much.

It's about taking an open and public stand against wickedness. Agreed, take a stand. Don't burn a book.

Should we not protest abortion clinics because the doctors will kill the babies no matter what? Sure, protest; but you wouldn't burn an unborn to do it would you?

Should we not protest a militant gay rally because the sodomites will continue in their depravity?Sure, protest; but you wouldn't burn a gay guy would you?

See my point? We're supposed to go against the grain of this world, regardless the outcome. Jeremiah never stopped preaching even though he never got a convert.

Like John pointed out, if you are going to judge what is extreme by the actions surrounding the people committing the wickedness, then burning a Koran in protest to a vile and wicked religion is very mild in comparison to chopping off Nick Berg's head with a dull machete and the MANY other atrocities they've committed.

Building a mosque on ground zero might be legal, but it's immoral and unethical and it's not a question of IF people should protest it, it's a matter of HOW they should.

[CPR]

I respectfully disagree.

The question is not will it stop them or not. This isn't about changing them, trying to get them to stop, trying to appease them, trying to win their hearts and minds, or even (gag me) trying to discover why they hate us so much.

It's about taking an open and public stand against wickedness.

Should we not protest abortion clinics because the doctors will kill the babies no matter what?

Should we not protest a militant gay rally because the sodomites will continue in their depravity?

See my point? We're supposed to go against the grain of this world, regardless the outcome. Jeremiah never stopped preaching even though he never got a convert.

Like John pointed out, if you are going to judge what is extreme by the actions surrounding the people committing the wickedness, then burning a Koran in protest to a vile and wicked religion is very mild in comparison to chopping off Nick Berg's head with a dull machete and the MANY other atrocities they've committed.

Building a mosque on ground zero might be legal, but it's immoral and unethical and it's not a question of IF people should protest it, it's a matter of HOW they should.

People keep saying that they do things that are much worse and blah blah blah. However, I don't really care what they do. I am not going to justify my actions or the actions of other Christians or Americans based on some extremist measuring stick and say, oh well it's not like I'm killing people so it's pretty mild in comparison. Sure, people do evil things, but that doesn't mean I have to combat it with evil as well.

Are we really having this discussion still?

[MaxKennedy]

Its very interesting that our media and president keeps calling the Muslim religion peaceful, but our troops our in danger because someone somewhere decides to burn Qurans? If it reveals what is actually true, that the muslim religion preaches violence, it is almost worth it for that reason.

Christians saved from the Muslim religion keep on calling it a violent religion but no one listens. Christians saved from Islam could burn copies of that occultic book they were saved from - the Quran, both because they have copies of it already - thereby not supporting the publisher, and as a witness to what they were saved from, entirely with New Testament founding.

And yes, the libertarians were first in line to say they shouldn't be allowed to do that, completely contrary to everything they were claiming just last week. I'd like to see the second paragraph above implemented, because I believe the libertarians might be even more against it. And FYI I don't know for sure the pastors aren't doing it that way.

Edited September 9, 2010 by MaxKennedy