Rock music and Movies

[amblivion]

Just for the record, I am not trying to stir up a debate or trouble in any way. I have a very honest question that has been giving me trouble for quite some time. I have someone very close to me who thinks that listening to rock music is okay. It is a touchy subject around us because I do not like listening to it, especially for the sake of just listening to it. I have pretty strong convictions about listening to it. This person maintains that the songs are clean, and they do not listen to songs that are dirty. I have read some of the lyrics to some of the songs, and they are clean. I didn't see anything wrong with the words, even in the world view.

Now I made the argument to this person that a lot of the singers were on drugs and that pretty much all of the ones they listen to have other songs that are filthy. They may not listen to those particular songs, but they do have filthy songs none the less. One band even has a song called Jesus was an alien.

Anyways, after making this argument, this person informed me that many of the movies I watch have actors that do not live very appropriate lives. An example of this would be Lord of the Rings. One of the actors in the movie is gay. They also informed me that the movies and shows on T.V. have secular songs throughout them. I had never really noticed this because I get so invovled with the show that I am not really listening to the music and usually it is a softer type of rock too and isn't very noticable.

I guess I am wondering if I do have a double standard, or am I looking at this from the wrong perspective?

[Revelation3:20]

I guess I am wondering if I do have a double standard, or am I looking at this from the wrong perspective?

Perhaps you do. Perhaps the Lord is using this to show you some more things that do not honor him.

[anime4christ]

I think I would agree with your friend, but then again, I have my own little rock band (not promoting rock here, but I just personally have come to the conclusion that it's not the genre that's bad.. I won't explain here because I respect the official position here) so I might be biased.

[JerryNumbers]

Just for the record, I am not trying to stir up a debate or trouble in any way. I have a very honest question that has been giving me trouble for quite some time. I have someone very close to me who thinks that listening to rock music is okay. It is a touchy subject around us because I do not like listening to it, especially for the sake of just listening to it. I have pretty strong convictions about listening to it. This person maintains that the songs are clean, and they do not listen to songs that are dirty. I have read some of the lyrics to some of the songs, and they are clean. I didn't see anything wrong with the words, even in the world view.

Now I made the argument to this person that a lot of the singers were on drugs and that pretty much all of the ones they listen to have other songs that are filthy. They may not listen to those particular songs, but they do have filthy songs none the less. One band even has a song called Jesus was an alien.

Anyways, after making this argument, this person informed me that many of the movies I watch have actors that do not live very appropriate lives. An example of this would be Lord of the Rings. One of the actors in the movie is gay. They also informed me that the movies and shows on T.V. have secular songs throughout them. I had never really noticed this because I get so invovled with the show that I am not really listening to the music and usually it is a softer type of rock too and isn't very noticable.

I guess I am wondering if I do have a double standard, or am I looking at this from the wrong perspective?

Sounds to me like your a wip, {work in progress). Your slowly cutting out those things which cannot be pleasing to God. Yet many will say you've got double standards, I really don't feel that is the case.

Who knows, one day like me, you may give up the movies too.

31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
1 Cor 10:31 (KJV)

17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1 John 3:22 (KJV)

Col 3:17 (KJV)

Can one watch a movie for the glory of God?
Can you give God thanks for that movie?
Can watching that moive be pleasing to God?

Can one listen to the rock songs for the glory of God?
Can one give God thanks for the rock song?
Can listening to rock songs be pleasing to God?

I might add, saying you've got double standards is the normal attack, its the easie attack a person can make against you in such situations. I've had plenty of them.

Keep on keeping on standing up for our Lord.

[Annie]

The subject of music is indeed a touchy and complex one, because it is viewed by many as subjective. I personally would not address the issue in the same way you're going about it (lives of the composers/performers), simply because all men are sinful, and even sinful men can produce beautiful art (Mozart, Lizst, Wagner, etc.). Without going into great detail, I'll just say that I always approach the issue from the cultural/historical perspective, as well as the personal perspective. Everyone agrees that no art (music included) is created in a vacuum. It is a reflection of the culture which created it, and it (not just the lyrics, but the raw art itself) expresses the spirit of the culture which gave birth to it. On a more personal level, music (just like literature or any other art form) does affect the morals of an individual. Either the art stirs the passions (called the "belly" in ancient times, and the "flesh" in the Bible), or inspires the affections (called the "chest" in ancient times, and the "mind/heart" in the Bible). Even Plato himself (a pagan) observed that listening to the right kind of music can make you into the right kind of person, and that listening to the wrong kind of music can tend to make you into the wrong kind of person. (I don't agree completely with his wording, of course, but am just noting that art/music and morals have long been associated. Only very recently have Christians veered away from such an association.)

Also on the personal level, we have to realize that music is a human expression that is related to, and really just a step beyond, normal, everyday spoken communication, in much the same way that poetry is a step beyond prose. For example, the melody of a song, sung with the voice, is an extention of our speaking voice. It rises and falls just as the spoken voice rises and falls; singing is a "step beyond" speaking, more focused and orgnanized, yet communicating in the same way. The rhythm of a song is an extention of the body movements that punctuate everyday speech and add meaning to what we're saying. The elements of the music itself, then, communicate a message, even without lyrics. Anyone can see this just by humming excerpts of, say, "Anything You Can Do, I Can Do Better" (from Annie, Get Your Gun) contrasted with "All I Ask of You" (Phantom of the Opera). So, if the music we're listening to is really an extention of the performer's speech and body language, what can we gather from the musical sounds we're hearing? Is the message glorifying to God? Or is it chaotic, fleshly, passionate, and sensual? You don't have to be a musicologist to answer these questions. You just have to be human.

In short, my objection to "rock music" has less to do with the composers/artists/performers and with the lyrics than it has to do with the music itself: its appeal to the "belly/appetites/passions," its birth (decadent American counterculture), and its message.

Movies, like any other art form, must be judged, first and foremost, on the basis of their content.

Edited August 1, 2010 by Annie

[JerryNumbers]

John R. Rice wrote a book many years ago entitled, What is Wrong With the Movies. It lays out quite well why Christians should not go to the movies.

[Melodys]

I have never thought of it that way, thanks for sharing
I have thought about the music in movies, and God has recently challenged me on this. Its bad when it doesn't bother us to hear it. There are even some stores I can't stay in very long (Aero is one) because of their music.

[John81]

I've been thinking about things along this line lately. Typically, I don't watch much TV but recently I was sick for a day and parked in front of the TV much of the day. Flipping through channels, watching some news, weather and seeing what was on the "Christian" channels, it dawned on me just how much all channels of TV as well as movies are music driven.

Most here at OB are against most secular music and many are against most or even all of what might be called CCM. At the same time, most here do watch TV and most also watch Christian and sometimes secular movies.

The Sherwood Baptist movies, which most here seem to have watched and liked, were conveyed along by CCM. Is CCM in a good Christian movie acceptable? Is CCM acceptable outside of the church even if one doesn't think it's okay within the church? How much CCM is acceptable?

The same applies with regards to TV and secular movies which are driven by secular music. How much secular music is okay? Even if one only watches Fox News and the Weather Channel they will hear an abundance of secular music, most often of a the rockin' sort and someitmes with rap or hip-hop. Some folks would never listen to this type of music on their radio, and certainly wouldn't accept it in church, but they will actually take in hours of it watching TV and movies. Is such music not harmful when combined with TV and movies?

How do we deal with music which permeates everything from commercials to the news to movies?

[HappyChristian]

I would agree with Annie.

And add another thought...if it were simply the lives of the composers/singers/actors that determined our listening or watching, we couldn't read the Bible. After all, the men who God used to pen it were sinners....David committed adultery and murder, but God used him to pen the Psalms. Solomon was a polygamist, but God used him to pen Proverbs, Song of Solomon and Ecclesiastes. And on we could go....(no, I am not equating the Bible to man-written songs and movies. Simply pointing out that God used sinners)

If we are watching a movie that has questionable music (like Fireproof), we just mute the music until it's done. Since we don't watch t.v. at home, we aren't bothered with commercials (when we do watch t.v, we mute the commercials and talk to each other during the long breaks ).

[JerryNumbers]

I've been thinking about things along this line lately. Typically, I don't watch much TV but recently I was sick for a day and parked in front of the TV much of the day. Flipping through channels, watching some news, weather and seeing what was on the "Christian" channels, it dawned on me just how much all channels of TV as well as movies are music driven.

Most here at OB are against most secular music and many are against most or even all of what might be called CCM. At the same time, most here do watch TV and most also watch Christian and sometimes secular movies.

The Sherwood Baptist movies, which most here seem to have watched and liked, were conveyed along by CCM. Is CCM in a good Christian movie acceptable? Is CCM acceptable outside of the church even if one doesn't think it's okay within the church? How much CCM is acceptable?

The same applies with regards to TV and secular movies which are driven by secular music. How much secular music is okay? Even if one only watches Fox News and the Weather Channel they will hear an abundance of secular music, most often of a the rockin' sort and someitmes with rap or hip-hop. Some folks would never listen to this type of music on their radio, and certainly wouldn't accept it in church, but they will actually take in hours of it watching TV and movies. Is such music not harmful when combined with TV and movies?

How do we deal with music which permeates everything from commercials to the news to movies?

From my experience, most church going Christians treats outside of church 100% different than inside of church. That is they allow many things outside of church into their life that they would not allow inside of church, or you could say they live 2 different lives.

That is:
they will listen to music that they would condemn in church.
they will watch TV shows that they would condemn in church.
they would watch movies they would condemn in church.
they will use words out of church that they would condemn used in church.
they will have books & magazines at home they would condemn in church.
that is lots of Christians are different people in church & out of church.

[John81]

From my experience, most church going Christians treats outside of church 100% different than inside of church. That is they allow many things outside of church into their life that they would not allow inside of church, or you could say they live 2 different lives.

That is:
they will listen to music that they would condemn in church.
they will watch TV shows that they would condemn in church.
they would watch movies they would condemn in church.
they will use words out of church that they would condemn used in church.
they will have books & magazines at home they would condemn in church.
that is lots of Christians are different people in church & out of church.

That's true for many. I was hoping some folks here would explain how they deal with this matter considering most here do seem to be actual Christians while many professing Christians "out there" may not be.

[Jimb]

Just for the record, I am not trying to stir up a debate or trouble in any way. I have a very honest question that has been giving me trouble for quite some time. I have someone very close to me who thinks that listening to rock music is okay. It is a touchy subject around us because I do not like listening to it, especially for the sake of just listening to it. I have pretty strong convictions about listening to it. This person maintains that the songs are clean, and they do not listen to songs that are dirty. I have read some of the lyrics to some of the songs, and they are clean. I didn't see anything wrong with the words, even in the world view.

Now I made the argument to this person that a lot of the singers were on drugs and that pretty much all of the ones they listen to have other songs that are filthy. They may not listen to those particular songs, but they do have filthy songs none the less. One band even has a song called Jesus was an alien.

Anyways, after making this argument, this person informed me that many of the movies I watch have actors that do not live very appropriate lives. An example of this would be Lord of the Rings. One of the actors in the movie is gay. They also informed me that the movies and shows on T.V. have secular songs throughout them. I had never really noticed this because I get so invovled with the show that I am not really listening to the music and usually it is a softer type of rock too and isn't very noticable.

I guess I am wondering if I do have a double standard, or am I looking at this from the wrong perspective?

Of course you have a double standard.

[JerryNumbers]

That's true for many. I was hoping some folks here would explain how they deal with this matter considering most here do seem to be actual Christians while many professing Christians "out there" may not be.

Yes, we ought to walk the talk, yet when someone does that, their brothers and sister in Christ will generally put them down calling them a fanatic.

[mattd]

I would agree with Annie.

And add another thought...if it were simply the lives of the composers/singers/actors that determined our listening or watching, we couldn't read the Bible. After all, the men who God used to pen it were sinners....David committed adultery and murder, but God used him to pen the Psalms. Solomon was a polygamist, but God used him to pen Proverbs, Song of Solomon and Ecclesiastes. And on we could go....(no, I am not equating the Bible to man-written songs and movies. Simply pointing out that God used sinners)

If we are watching a movie that has questionable music (like Fireproof), we just mute the music until it's done. Since we don't watch t.v. at home, we aren't bothered with commercials (when we do watch t.v, we mute the commercials and talk to each other during the long breaks ).

I believe that movies, like forms of artistic expression, should be alloted a fair amount of leeway. If the fast beat, up tempo, music (rock) is being played in a movie for the purpose of conveying suspense or action, then I think It's fine. It's part of the director's artistic freedom in conveying emotions and scenarios. If its gratuitous and being played to convey the actual message delievered by the illicit lyrics, then it's wrong. It all has to do with context.

[John81]

I believe that movies, like forms of artistic expression, should be alloted a fair amount of leeway. If the fast beat, up tempo, music (rock) is being played in a movie for the purpose of conveying suspense or action, then I think It's fine. It's part of the director's artistic freedom in conveying emotions and scenarios. If its gratuitous and being played to convey the actual message delievered by the illicit lyrics, then it's wrong. It all has to do with context.

By that definition, much soft rock, pop, "family friendly" secular rock would all be acceptable. Along with this, so would a great deal of CCM.