Time Period of Dinosaurs

[Bakershalfdozen]

Futurehope......here are the definitions you just posted above.......



So you don't find it odd that God originally created an earth that was a "waste" and "undistinguisable ruin" in Genesis 1:1? Look up that term 'laid waste" in your Bible.

A 'gap theory' simply THEORIZES that God MAY have destroyed a previous world (the dinosoars) sometime between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2
Please show where I have taught this as FACT instead of THEORY and I will apologize.

You chose only one of the definitions... both of those words can also mean empty, an empty place, nothing. "Without form and void" can simply mean shapeless and empty...unformed and unfilled. On day 1 of Creation, the "earth" was simply water; the dry land didn't appear until later. It was also empty; plants, animals and people didn't appear until later.

[heartstrings]

Futurehope,
We just learned in Bible class that in using the derogatory worde "Raca" they were, in effect, saying, you're an idiot, and WORTHLESS. It's a form of hate language....and the Bible says, haters are murderers; something for all of us to think about.

My former pastor, Dr. James H. Rainwater, called it the 'gap fact' and I would hardly call him a heretic. I myself don't agree with him that it's fact so, once again, friend, please point out where I presented 'gap theory' as fact.

[Jerry]

I wonder how we can have dinosaurs (or any kind of creature) existing on the earth before it was created? Also, how does anything live without an atmosphere, sunlight, water, anything else (whether plant of animal - the Bible indicates all animals ate vegetation before the flood) to eat? Genesis 1 and 2 teaches that ALL three heavens were created within those six days - not prior to them - therefore no first heaven (ie. the atmosphere), no second heaven (ie. outer space - where the stars, planets, sun, moon, etc. are), and no third heaven (and there would not have been a need for a dwelling place for the glory of God before people and angelic creatures were created).

[futurehope]

Futurehope,
We just learned in Bible class that in using the derogatory worde "Raca" they were, in effect, saying, you're an idiot, and WORTHLESS. It's a form of hate language....and the Bible says, haters are murderers; something for all of us to think about.

My former pastor, Dr. James H. Rainwater, called it the 'gap fact' and I would hardly call him a heretic. I myself don't agree with him that it's fact so, once again, friend, please point out where I presented 'gap theory' as fact.

Like I said in the last post you so readily ignored: Whether you present it as fact or theory does not matter when it blatantly contradicts God's Word. Read my last post. Then read the reply I sent to Jerry. Then consult the gospels to see how Christ responded to heretics and you'll see that my response is right in line with His as you and any others who teach the "gap theory" or "gap fact" in any way are serving satan as heretics. You don't have to agree or like it. Either way, it's the truth, because it's biblical - not because some man says so.

[Jerry]

I will be happy to honor this request, however, I will note that heretics is very much a reason to be angry along with adding to the Word. Even Christ overthrew the tables and scolded even the disciples for things that go against Him and the Father. But I will respect your request and bite my toungue when necessary.

Jesus did not sin when dealing with heretics or false teachers, or hypocrites or anyone else that needed to be rebuked and corrected. The Bible teaches calling people idiots and morons is a sin. Calling people fools or foolish is Biblical though IF they fit the Biblical definition and use of the word. Someone rejecting Bible truth and/or the true God would be a fool.

[futurehope]

Jesus did not sin when dealing with heretics or false teachers, or hypocrites or anyone else that needed to be rebuked and corrected. The Bible teaches calling people idiots and morons is a sin. Calling people fools or foolish is Biblical though IF they fit the Biblical definition and use of the word. Someone rejecting Bible truth and/or the true God would be a fool.

id?i?ot??/??di?t/ [id-ee-uht]

[heartstrings]

Please show me a scripture that says it's OK for a person(other than God) to directly call anyone a fool....under any circumstances.

[Jerry]

I already showed the passage in Matthew where it states to call someone "Raca" (empty head, idiot, moron - same meaning) brings the judgment of God upon someone, makes them guilty of sin. Therefore to do so is sinful in the sight of God.

I won't debate whether calling someone a fool is sin or not - I personally don't think it is, as it is a term the Bible uses, and I am convinced as long as someone is using terms Biblically, based on the example of Bible believers who were serving the Lord (not someone doing wrong - for example, Paul rebuking someone teaching falsehood or leading others astray), then it is not sinning. If you are convinced it is not, then that is fine. I am not trying to convince someone to go ahead and do it - my point was without doing it in the Biblical sense it is wrong.

[futurehope]

Please show me a scripture that says it's OK for a person(other than God) to directly call anyone a fool....under any circumstances.

Show me scripture that says we are not supposed to emulate the example set by Christ, then get back to the topic as I am sure you won't find that scripture. Let's look at somthing before that to clear this up:

Corinthians 15

33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.
34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.
35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance

[futurehope]

I already showed the passage in Matthew where it states to call someone "Raca" (empty head, idiot, moron - same meaning) brings the judgment of God upon someone, makes them guilty of sin. Therefore to do so is sinful in the sight of God.

I won't debate whether calling someone a fool is sin or not - I personally don't think it is, as it is a term the Bible uses, and I am convinced as long as someone is using terms Biblically, based on the example of Bible believers who were serving the Lord (not someone doing wrong - for example, Paul rebuking someone teaching falsehood or leading others astray), then it is not sinning. If you are convinced it is not, then that is fine. I am not trying to convince someone to go ahead and do it - my point was without doing it in the Biblical sense it is wrong.

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

4469.
rJakAV rhaka, rhak-ah'; of Chaldee origin (compare 07386); O empty one, i.e. thou worthless (as a term of utter vilification):--Raca.


Raca does not mean idiot or moron. It means worthless. Second, look at the context: WITHOUT A REASON. My use of the term idiot, moron, or fool would all mean the same as I have already shown through dictionary definitions and it was used in line with the same as Paul and Christ in regards to someone doing false teaching. So, please, let's compare apples to apples here and use scripture that applies if we are going to make accusations. I have provided scripture, lexicon, and dictionary while you have used scripture that only supports my point further and made statements that do the same. All that said, I have agreed not to use those synonyms for fool if they offend you. I don't see where the prOBlem is here other than a failure to properly research word meanings and scripture before making assumptions and accusations on your part Jerry. Now, if something I have provided here is inaccurate, feel free to clarify it for me as I am willing to learn, but please make it accurately scriptural and not opinion based.

[heartstrings]

You chose only one of the definitions... both of those words can also mean empty, an empty place, nothing. "Without form and void" can simply mean shapeless and empty...unformed and unfilled. On day 1 of Creation, the "earth" was simply water; the dry land didn't appear until later. It was also empty; plants, animals and people didn't appear until later.

I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. Jeremiah 4:23

Was this at the creation? Or after a catastrophe? This form and void was evidently caused by destruction. Like I've already said several times, this is only a theory with me. But Futurehope insists I'm a heretic.
Oh well; God be the judge of that. I prefer to be a Berean Christian, and read the WOrd of God with an open mind....because I believe it's sometimes dangerous to just accept what someone else SAYS it says. For instance, I had a former pastor, who I HIGHLY respected tell us from the pulpit that Psalm 29:9 meant "TWISTED THE OAKS". Well, silly me, I did a little digging and found that was what the NIV bible says. and I later found that he was preaching sermons written by a false teacher. Then when he l;eft the church, he conveniently took all the tapes of his sermons with him.
Anyway, when I studied Psalm 29 for myself, I found that It is talking about how God SPEAKS to different mens' hearts. He shakes the widerness heart, breaks the proud heart, makes the humble quiet heart to bear fruit, exposes the secrets of the heart, sets the heart on fire, etc. And the first part about "giving God strength" is talking about giving God your whole heart. The point is, I questioned what this pastor said, dug into the Word for myself , and got a blessing.

I'm sorry, I just ain't going to go telling people that a "behemoth" was a "dinosaur", on some creation site, unless I see biblical proof and God speaks it to my heart through His word.

[futurehope]

I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. Jeremiah 4:23

Was this at the creation? Or after a catastrophe? This form and void was evidently caused by destruction. Like I've already said several times, this is only a theory with me. But Futurehope insists I'm a heretic.
Oh well; God be the judge of that. I prefer to be a Berean Christian, and read the WOrd of God with an open mind....because I believe it's sometimes dangerous to just accept what someone else SAYS it says. For instance, I had a former pastor, who I HIGHLY respected tell us from the pulpit that Psalm 29:9 meant "TWISTED THE OAKS". Well, silly me, I did a little digging and found that was what the NIV bible says. and I later found that he was preaching sermons written by a false teacher. Then when he l;eft the church, he conveniently took all the tapes of his sermons with him.
Anyway, when I studied Psalm 29 for myself, I found that It is talking about how God SPEAKS to different mens' hearts. He shakes the widerness heart, breaks the proud heart, makes the humble quiet heart to bear fruit, exposes the secrets of the heart, sets the heart on fire, etc. And the first part about "giving God strength" is talking about giving God your whole heart. The point is, I questioned what this pastor said, dug into the Word for myself , and got a blessing.

I'm sorry, I just ain't going to go telling people that a "behemoth" was a "dinosaur", on some creation site, unless I see biblical proof and God speaks it to my heart through His word.

By what evidence?? This passage is more than likely referring to the aftermath of the flood. (edited) God created the earth void and without form because He had plans for the coming days to form it and fill it. It wasn't a finished creation at that point. If it was, what would He have done with the other five days He planned on using for creation. WAIT A MINUTE!! That would have been great! ONE DAY WORK, SIX DAYS REST!!!

Okay, I'll relate it to something you might be familiar with. Have you ever made pottery or even played with clay or playdough for that matter. When you start out, you have something without form, but as you work with your creation, it takes form and, when it is finished you can fill it up with water (if you have just made a vase that is -- it doesn't work as well with playdough or clay though). Point is this: void and without form was a starting point that God chose for HIS creation just as it is where most of our creations begin. Why is that so hard to believe?? What did you expect that He did something miraculous and make everything out of nothing -- oh yeah.......He did.

[Bakershalfdozen]

I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. Jeremiah 4:23

Was this at the creation? Or after a catastrophe? This form and void was evidently caused by destruction. Like I've already said several times, this is only a theory with me. But Futurehope insists I'm a heretic.
Oh well; God be the judge of that. I prefer to be a Berean Christian, and read the WOrd of God with an open mind....because I believe it's sometimes dangerous to just accept what someone else SAYS it says. For instance, I had a former pastor, who I HIGHLY respected tell us from the pulpit that Psalm 29:9 meant "TWISTED THE OAKS". Well, silly me, I did a little digging and found that was what the NIV bible says. and I later found that he was preaching sermons written by a false teacher. Then when he l;eft the church, he conveniently took all the tapes of his sermons with him.
Anyway, when I studied Psalm 29 for myself, I found that It is talking about how God SPEAKS to different mens' hearts. He shakes the widerness heart, breaks the proud heart, makes the humble quiet heart to bear fruit, exposes the secrets of the heart, sets the heart on fire, etc. And the first part about "giving God strength" is talking about giving God your whole heart. The point is, I questioned what this pastor said, dug into the Word for myself , and got a blessing.

I'm sorry, I just ain't going to go telling people that a "behemoth" was a "dinosaur", on some creation site, unless I see biblical proof and God speaks it to my heart through His word.

As we have seen in many other verses, particular Hebrew (or Greek) words can be translated in different ways depending on the context of the passage. Jeremiah 4 is indeed talking about a destructive force. It is reasonable to interpret the destructive definitions of "w/o form and void" in that passage. There is no reason, however, to apply the exact same definition (because we have already seen that there are other definitions) to Genesis 1 other than the fact that "Science" can't...or won't...reconcile dinosaurs with humans.

[Bakershalfdozen]

Okay, I'll relate it to something you might be familiar with. Have you ever made pottery or even played with clay or playdough for that matter. When you start out, you have something without form, but as you work with your creation, it takes form and, when it is finished you can fill it up with water (if you have just made a vase that is -- it doesn't work as well with playdough or clay though). Point is this: void and without form was a starting point that God chose for HIS creation just as it is where most of our creations begin. Why is that so hard to believe?? What did you expect that He did something miraculous and make everything out of nothing -- oh yeah.......He did.

I've also heard a cake analogy used. I can tell someone that I made a cake. I don't think they would assume that the cake was complete on the first step. At first it was just a mass of batter in a bowl, shapeless and unadorned. After baking awhile, it took shape in the pan, and then later I decorated it.

[futurehope]

Note: I edited my last post after realizing my hands were moving faster than my mind.