What do you think about Iraq.

[John81]

Amen!

[Kubel]

I think we need to get the job done, but at the same time, if the Iraqis aren't willing to step up, I think we also need to realize that at some point we may need to consider pulling out.

Both options (staying or pulling out) are disastrous. One to us, the other to the entire Middle East.

One thing is for sure. There will be no peace in an area with Islamic fundamentalists until everyone converts or everyone dies.

[IM4given]

Interesting and mostly unknown facts about our nation's history.


We did not "lose" the Vietnam War. We left at least three years before the VC occupied Saigon.

TRUE.

The attack on Pearl Harbor was not a surprise; the Honolulu newspaper printed that the Japanese might attack over a week before December 7.

I never said it was a surprise - you do not believe that bombing the Twin Towers was a surprise do you? The investigations clearly indicate that plenty of people knew about the plan and did not act to stop it.

Abraham Lincoln illegally and unconstitutionally invaded a sovereign nation by invading the South. He also put our nation on the course that it is now by writing the first (unconstitutional) Executive Order.

By making secession illegal, Congress went completely against the Declaration of Independence by nullifying the idea that a people should throw off the chains of an unjust government.

VERY TRUE!

The Japanese government had been trying to surrender for several months when Truman ordered the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Yep. Even their own government could not stop the Kamakazis after they had so thoroughly indoctrinated them. Surrender meant "losing face."

The US government began supporting the Communist Chinese under General Mao Tse Sung during WW II, dropping the supply lines to the Methodist General Chiang Kai-sheck. The Communists brutally shot and killed American Lieutenant John Birch five days after the Japanese signed the cease-fire. Chiang and his people were forced to flee to the island of Formosa (Taiwan).

Also true.

Adolph Hitler had offered to emigrate the Jewish people to any nation that would accept them. He had stated that he would put them on luxury liners and ship them free of charge. The US government refused them.

Hitler's plan from the beginning was to exterminate every Jew on the planet. His offer was a phoney ruse and the US Government knew it.

[Guest Guest]

Yep. Even their own government could not stop the Kamakazis after they had so thoroughly indoctrinated them. Surrender meant "losing face."

What I mean is that the US hushed it up. They would rather have used the Atomic bomb instead of accepting the surrender. This created an opportunity for the US to strike fear into the hearts of the rest of the world. Not that it didn't come in handy, but it was totally unnecessary from a strategic standpoint.



Hitler's plan from the beginning was to exterminate every Jew on the planet. His offer was a phoney ruse and the US Government knew it.

I'd have taken the chance on the ruse, especially knowing his evolutionary background and radical ideas. It's clear to me that the US, under the pitiful leadership of FDR, wasn't interested in helping the Jews. I could be wrong though...I guess ya' never know what was really going on; history has this strange way of changing. :(

[John81]

From what I have studied, Hitler would have loved to dump "the Jewish problem" on any nation that would have accepted them.

At the same time, Hitler was a shrewd politician and he knew no one would accept the Jews. In this, he could point to their hypocricy in claiming to care about the Jews but not caring enough to truly help them.

Interestingly, the Zionist Jews greatly backed Hitler and worked with Hitler in attempting to immigrate German Jews to Palestine. England, who controlled Palestine at the time, fought this move with all their might.

For the most part, the Jews had no friends at that time. None of the nations wanted them in their borders and England didn't want them "causing trouble" in Palestine.

The Jews would eventually discover themselves to be betrayed by all parties.

[kevinmiller]

Saying that we knew about 9/11 before hand is a conspiracy theory put out by the liberals...

[IM4given]

Saying that we knew about 9/11 before hand is a conspiracy theory put out by the liberals...

:? I am not a conspiracy theorist. I learned that a few CIA and FBI operatives knew of the threat, but did not give it any validity. I do not think there was anything that we could have stopped the attack, just like I do not think there was anything we could have done to stop the attack on Pearl Harbor. Just because you know something is going to happen does not mean you are a part of some conspiracy. Some events on this planet are out of our hands.

[Guest Guest]

Saying that we knew about 9/11 before hand is a conspiracy theory put out by the liberals...

The stupid libs will do anything to discredit a Republican, even if it means canning some of their own people in the process. Even liberals are right once in a while. There have been dozens of things through the years that have happened, that the government had good knowledge of, yet it allowed the things to happen, for whatever reason.

I am a very firm believer in what most people call "conspiracy 'theories.'" There are two views of history: accidental, or conspiratorial. Either everything that has happened down through the years accidentally happened that way, or someone worked to bring it about.

Like I said, read "What Hath God Wrought!" and "How Satan Turned America Against God," both by Dr. William P. Grady. Marvelous, excellent research, and very clear, concise and entertaining presentation. His material will have you on the edge of your seat, and it's 100% footnoted.

[chev1958]

Where are you getting your American history? Let's look at some of your statements:

We did not "lose" the Vietnam War. We left at least three years before the VC occupied Saigon.

But would North Vietnam have overrun South Vietnam if America had not left? We left because we were beaten; there was no fight left in us. And our honor was tarnished until President Reagan restored it.

The attack on Pearl Harbor was not a surprise; the Honolulu newspaper printed that the Japanese might attack over a week before December 7.

There was no evidence as to when the Pearl Harbor attack would occur, or even if Pearl Harbor was the actual target. The U.S. already knew what was going on with the Japanese, and the Pentagon already knew that the 7th Fleet was a target. The Japanese war machine was working its way toward us. The reason all the planes were parked together was to be able to guard them better. But the timing of the attack was what was unknown to us. Sure, there was talk about it, but nothing actionable. The "surprise" was that we were surprised when it happened.

The U.S. military has plans for thousands of scenarios around the world. You can bet we already have military plans to deal with Iran, North Korea, Syria, and even Russia. And I'm sure those nations know something about those plans. That doesn't mean those plans will go into effect. And the timing is a well-kept secret.

Regarding 9/11, our government had been hearing about plane attacks for at least 10 years before the attack actually happened. Again, when the attacks were to occur was what was unknown.

Abraham Lincoln illegally and unconstitutionally invaded a sovereign nation by invading the South.

He only did this after the South attacked Fort Sumter, which was still under Union control. While I'm Southern through and through, the South struck first militarily.

He also put our nation on the course that it is now by writing the first (unconstitutional) Executive Order.

Actually, President John Quincy Adams issued the first presidential executive order to announce the deaths of his father and Thomas Jefferson to the federal government. But that wasn't necessarily unconstitutional. The first unconstitutional Executive Order came from Andrew Jackson to move the Cherokee and Creek nations from the South to the West.

I do agree that Lincoln elevated the federal government above what the Constitution intended.

By making secession illegal, Congress went completely against the Declaration of Independence by nullifying the idea that a people should throw off the chains of an unjust government.

Secession wasn't illegal until after the Civil War. The victors of any war get to make the rules, so the "winners" of the Civil War made sure it wouldn't happen again. The Supreme Court upheld the legislation, although a good part of the justices were Lincoln appointees. But Americans don't want a different government. We're getting what we voted for.

The Japanese government had been trying to surrender for several months when Truman ordered the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

The Allied insisted on unconditional surrender, as all victors should. (Not insisting on unconditional surrender is why we "lost" Korea, Vietnam, and are now losing Iraq.) The Japanese wanted to save face. The emperor was looking for terms, but his generals didn't want to lose honor and kept the war going.

The US government began supporting the Communist Chinese under General Mao Tse Sung during WW II, dropping the supply lines to the Methodist General Chiang Kai-sheck. The Communists brutally shot and killed American Lieutenant John Birch five days after the Japanese signed the cease-fire. Chiang and his people were forced to flee to the island of Formosa (Taiwan).

You're kidding, right? Chiang Kai-scheck buddied up to the Soviets in the mid-1920s for financial support. Then he turned against the Communists in his own country because Mao was as egotistical as Chiang was and wanted to rule China. The two came together to kick the Japanese out, but then picked up their war when WWII was over.

The U.S. supported Chiang with everything but military troops. Chiang used mediation attempts by the United States to strengthen his position. When Chiang violated a U.S.-brokered ceasefire between him and Mao, the U.S. supported Chiang with everything but military troops. And the only reason the U.S. government supported Chiang was because he wasn't communist. Chiang was an inept, but charismatic military leader. The only reason Formosa (now Taiwan) is not under Communist control now is because of U.S. support. Why do you think we have an entire Naval fleet still in Japan?

I believe John81 dealt adequately with the Hitler-Jewish question.

My wife will tell you that I'm the world's worst conspiracy theorist. I tend to see the negative in our government before I see the good. But I try to include facts in my conspiracy theories. Some of the statements previously posted here, however, are outright false.

Mitch

[Tim]

No fair using facts Mitch, you will just cloud the issue : j/k :goodpost:

[ltl]

Wow so far it's 100% "stay"!

We'll see when someone breaks this.

[John81]

I didn't answer the poll question because I don't even know what "course" they are now saying we are on!

First it was just to get rid of Saddam and his weapons of mass destruction. Then we were going to applaud as the Iraqis welcomed us, set up a democracy, and be on our way. Then we had to fight terrorists in Iraq. Then we were to be finished as soon as the Iraqis set up a government. Then we had to stay for as long as the Iraqi government wants us to. Then there is this or that condition upon what we may or may not do.

So, what does "stay the course" mean anymore?

As for "cut and run," that's generally never a good option. Even if it seems we should leave there as soon as possible, such a movement should be a phased effort and the military should always have the ability and option to launch strikes against any threats.

I believe what really needs to be determined is what do we require before we leave? Have enough of our goals been met? Do we have to perpetually support the new Iraq government? Under what conditions or time frame could we make an honourable withdrawal? Etc.

[Guest Guest]

Or do we stay there and perform perpetual police service free of charge for years and years, like Afghanistan, Kosovo, South Korea, etc. etc.?

[LAF]

I didn't vote in the poll .

I didn't because I don't know what the goal is any more .

[kevinmiller]

Or do we stay there and perform perpetual police service free of charge for years and years, like Afghanistan, Kosovo, South Korea, etc. etc.?

We don't provide "police service." Afghanistan is a recent battle and we stay to help keep the peace. Kosovo I don't have enough knowledge about. Korea, we just stick around as a preventative measure for the North Korean army.