Repeating a prayer

[Madeline]

Then what are they doing in this verse?

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Calling upon the Lord certainly involves praying to Him.

In Romans 10:13 Paul quotes Joel 2:32, another which centers on the expression (decision) of faith as being the sole means man has effective access to God. To "call on the name of the Lord," is the equivalent of placing one's faith in Him. Men first started "calling upon the name of the Lord" early in the history of mankind, as is recorded in Genesis 4:26, the means whereby a person receives eternal life. There is an algebraic formula that states that if x = y and z = y then x = z. In this passage it is clearly stated that "calling upon the name of the Lord" equals salvation, which is exactly what faith in Christ does as expressed in Romans 10:10. It has nothing do do with a sinners prayer.

Love,
Madeline

[kevinmiller]

Well said Jerry. I try to always end my gospel presentation with leading the person in a prayer, be it a "sinner's prayer" or if they decided to wait or don't feel like it, I will still ask if I pray with them and pray aloud that my desire is for the Holy Spirit to open their hearts, their eyes to the truths that we talked about and that may "Señor Smith" find the mercy of God by accepting the work of Christ on his behalf unto salvation.

A person has to want to be saved in order to become saved. The prayer has no saving merit. People will ask how to be saved when they are under conviction and are truly willing to repent. Leading someone in prayer, especially when they are not sure that they want to, results in a LOT of false converts.

And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
(Acts 16:30)

[Jerry]

I must confess I use Thee, Thou, Thine, a lot when I pray. I guess I just think that the Lord is due that respect which the KJB gives Him.

You may personally use these pronouns out of respect for the Lord - the KJV translators did not. Thee, thou, thine, etc. is singular - so of course the KJV ALWAYS used it in reference to God. And they used it in regards to every other person who was addressed singularly in Scripture too. (Not trying to be argumentative - but attempting to clarify the usages of pronouns, which is very important for understanding the Bible.)

[Jerry]

I certainly do not believe in any kind of rote prayer for salvation - however, I truly do believe someone is not saved unless they do seek the Lord (which involves prayer). How can you receive Him for salvation and the forgiveness of sins without acknowledging in prayer you are a sinner and asking Jesus Christ to save you?

[Samer]

Isn't a prayer an outpouring of the faith that's in one's heart?

[Jerry]

Yes, calling upon the Lord in prayer is acting on the belief that the Lord is willing and able to save you.

Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

This certainly indicates we need to pray to God in order to be saved - ie. confession is agreeing with God about what He said - it isn't just thinking, "Oh, I am a sinner and I need a Saviour," but turning to Him and acknowledging that need in prayer: eg. "Lord, I realize I am a sinner and I need you to save me. I know you are the only way of salvation. Please forgive my sins and make me your child."

Truly, has someone ever been saved without talking to the Lord (ie. praying) about salvation? "Hm, He's the Saviour. I must be saved now..." doesn't seem to fit.

The Bible talks about receiving the Saviour, receiving the Gospel, opening the door and letting the Saviour in - that certainly implies addressing Him in some way - which would be prayer.

Lest I be misunderstood: I am not advocating a specific prayer or kind of prayer - but I do not see how someone can be saved apart from any prayer to the Lord at all.

[Samer]

I guess the question is, is someone who believes saved before or after he prays?

How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed?
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved...

I'm also reminded of the Ethiopian eunuch:

Acts 8:36-38 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? (37) And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. (38) And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

Does salvation come from the heart or from the mouth?

[Jerry]

Does salvation come from the heart or from the mouth?

Romans 10:9-10 says both. For clarification, the context dictates that it is confessing to God Himself, not to man. True faith would move us to pray to the Lord to forgive us of our sins (and/or whatever else they feel the need to address when turning to the Lord).

[IM4given]

Being a Civil War Re-enactor and Living Historian, I prefer this tract, also from said website:

www.biblebelievers.com/come_to_jesus.html

I would like to see this reprinted in pamphlet form on high quality parchment paper to distribute at Civil War events. It is as valulable today to modern society as it was back then on the bloody battlefields of yore. I wonder where I can find some old-fashioned 1860 fonts?

[JerryNumbers]

The greatest sinners prayer.

13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Luke 18:13 (KJV)

And it seems it came straight from the heart.

[Samer]

Yeah Jerry, my church let everybody submit up to three tracts for consideration the past few weeks, but they required each tract had a sinner's prayer. I just used the example of "God be merciful to me a sinner" as how sinners ought to approach God, so that worked out, since I didn't want to have a prayer to repeat like most tracts do. :lol:

[heartstrings]

I believe that maybe "confessing witht he mouth" means repentance or admitting you are asinner....because a deaf mute, could not confess witht he mout.

It's the heart that matters.

[Jerry]

Confessing to God - I do not believe it is limited to our speach, though that is the specific application in that passage. Obviously, whether we speak words audibly or silently, God knows what we are saying to Him.

[Madeline]

Confessing to God - I do not believe it is limited to our speach, though that is the specific application in that passage. Obviously, whether we speak words audibly or silently, God knows what we are saying to Him.

Faith is simply not a prayer (which in itself is a "work," i.e., something a person must perform [Ephesians 2:8, 9]). In truth, faith is "placing one's total confidence or trust" in something. In the matter of eternal (spirit) salvation it is placed in a Person, Jesus Christ (who did the "work" in your place whilst on the cross). In reality, the placement of faith is a decision that the person makes within and by his will. For those who believe they were saved by their "prayer" (of faith), you might ask them when was the "instant" that they were saved (for the apprehension of it is in an instant; it is never a process of any length), e.g., "Did their salvation take place before, during, or at the end of their prayer? You'll find that a reasonable person will have to admit that it was the instant they decided to pray (which was their "decision" to trust in Christ), if in fact prayer has "anything" to do with it (which it does not!). Just go back through the Bible and you'll find hundreds of time that salvation is linked only through "faith." There is never a mention of prayer. You'll NEVER find an invitation to pray for salvation, as is so prevalent in churches today. The ONLY time a direct (and complete) answer was given to the question on how must one be saved in the New Testament is in Acts 16:30, 31. Read it, and you will have the answer, given by the apostle Paul. Yet, so many today who have twisted spirit salvation (which Christ predicted would happen as this dispensation continued to its end, to end at the Rapture) run to Romans chapter 10 to try to prove their point. They take the passage completely out of context, which was an appeal by Paul to his Jewish brethren; not to the Gentiles.

Love,
Madeline

[Jerry]

Madeline, opinions are worthless - why not deal with and explain Romans 10:9-10 and 13. Those verses are pretty clear that salvation comes when confession (ie. agreement of their sinful condition and their need for a Saviour) is made to God and by calling upon the name of the Lord.