Book of Enoch

[heartstrings]

Prophesied simply means preached. Scripture however means writings - and the Bible teaches that we have all of God's written Word because He promised to preserve it. There is no proof that Jude quoted from the book of Enoch - it was more likely the other way around - the book of Jude referred to some OT event' date=' and some zealous religious person faked a book to back up some religious traditions. There is no proof Enoch or any pre-flood preacher wrote anything down - but we do catch glimpses of their lives and prophecies in the Bible itself.[/size']

No doubt Enoch was moved by the Holy Spirit to preach God's Word and to foretell the future - but the book of Enoch is not inspired.

P.S. The Bible doesn't teach the writers were inspired, but the writings were - that is what Scripture means.

Aaaaayymen!

[heartstrings]

Yeah, exactly. Jesus said Isaiah prophesied. You seemed to be trying to make some point that if someone "prophesied" that means they spoke it and not wrote it. However, Jesus was quoting Isaiah's written prophecy.

In other words, lets not make word rules that don't exist. "Prophesied" can be referring to written words that prophesy something. Not just spoken words.

Brother,
I never said that prophets never wrote down their prophecies and I just agreed with you that Isaiah wrote down his. My point, that you should have gotten by now, is that not all prophets physically took out their pen and wrote down their own prophecy. Not to worry though....it got wrote down alright.

1. A prophecy is a verbal revelation from God, or a foretelling of future events.
2. The prophecies in the word of God were obviously written down (are you with me so far?)
3. Somebody had to write them down....right?
4. Sometimes, the prophet himself wrote it down(for example, Isaiah)
5. But sometimes, the prophet himself did not physically write what he himself prophesied.(for example, Saul, Deborah, Elijah and Enoch)
6. So who wrote these down? Congratulations!! You guessed it!!! Somebody else wrote it down. Are you getting it now??? Please say yes!! :pray :java:

Adam and Eve were buck nekkid and were not ashamed!!
Who was there to know this fact? You guessed it: only God Himself. But who wrote it down? Right again!! Somebody who had not even been born yet. Who told Moses that Adam and Eve were buck nekkid? Right again....God did.

The Bible says that Enoch prophesied. But guess what........
Somebody else wrote it down.
In the Book of Jude.

[Will]

The Bible says that Enoch prophesied. But guess what........
Somebody else wrote it down.
In the Book of Jude.

It's highly likely it would have been written down prior to the book of Jude, and retained as part of Jewish tradition for at least a while. Just like another book in the Old Testament that was quoted but we have no knowledge of today. :wink

[Jerry]

That's just guesswork on your part. God did not need someone else to write it down in order to move Jude to write about Enoch's ministry. Besides, that is pre-flood - no one has ever found any pre-flood documents, and the book of Enoch was written probably in the first century AD, so it certainly was not something written by the real Enoch or any true eye-witnesses, but rather some religious Jew writing their own fables (of which they have quite a few).

[suitman]

The book of enoch always seems to be the one that comes up. Okay heres the facts for you to look at so people can make their own minds up. I'm mentioning both apocrypha and pseudopigrapha so people can see where it fits.

The 14 apocrphas were written after the old testament was finished but before the new testamen began.and they are
[1] 1 esdras
[2] 2 esdras
[3] tobit
[4] judith
[5] the rest of esther
[6] the wisdom of soloman
[7] ecclesisticus
[8] 1 maccabees
[9] 2 maccabees
[10] baruch
[11]the song of three children
[12] story of susanna
[13]bel and the dragon
[14] the prayer of manasseh.
If you want a overview of any book I'd be happy to do so just ask

The roman catholic church (now) accepts as scripture all but 1+2 esdras and the prayer of manasseh
The Greek orthodox church adds 1 esdras, the prayer of manaseh, psalm 151 and 1 maccabes with 2 maccabes as an appendix
The Russian orthodox church adds 1+2 esdras, psalm 151, and 1 maccabes

The pseudopigrapha are books penned in the period 200 BC to 200 AD and attributed to old testament characters like Adam, Noah, Moses and so on

They have never been accepted as scripture by the church

some examples are
the assumption of Moses, ascension of Isaiah, BOOK OF ENOCH, book of jubilees and many many MANY others.

hope that helps people

[heartstrings]

That's just guesswork on your part. God did not need someone else to write it down in order to move Jude to write about Enoch's ministry. Besides' date=' that is pre-flood - no one has ever found any pre-flood documents, and the book of Enoch was written probably in the first century AD, so it certainly was not something written by the real Enoch or any true eye-witnesses, but rather some religious Jew writing their own fables (of which they have quite a few).

:thumb

[heartstrings]

The book of enoch always seems to be the one that comes up. Okay heres the facts for you to look at so people can make their own minds up. I'm mentioning both apocrypha and pseudopigrapha so people can see where it fits.

The 14 apocrphas were written after the old testament was finished but before the new testamen began.and they are
[1] 1 esdras
[2] 2 esdras
[3] tobit
[4] judith
[5] the rest of esther
[6] the wisdom of soloman
[7] ecclesisticus
[8] 1 maccabees
[9] 2 maccabees
[10] baruch
[11]the song of three children
[12] story of susanna
[13]bel and the dragon
[14] the prayer of manasseh.
If you want a overview of any book I'd be happy to do so just ask

The roman catholic church (now) accepts as scripture all but 1+2 esdras and the prayer of manasseh
The Greek orthodox church adds 1 esdras, the prayer of manaseh, psalm 151 and 1 maccabes with 2 maccabes as an appendix
The Russian orthodox church adds 1+2 esdras, psalm 151, and 1 maccabes

The pseudopigrapha are books penned in the period 200 BC to 200 AD and attributed to old testament characters like Adam, Noah, Moses and so on

They have never been accepted as scripture by the church

some examples are
the assumption of Moses, ascension of Isaiah, BOOK OF ENOCH, book of jubilees and many many MANY others.

hope that helps people

The Jews were a literate people. Most of them were idol worshipping, lost sinners. Lost sinners write literature too. Just because some Jews wrote literature doesn't make it all inspired scripture.

[suitman]

The Jews were a literate people. Most of them were idol worshipping, lost sinners. Lost sinners write literature too. Just because some Jews wrote literature doesn't make it all inspired scripture.

You are quite correct
It was only the pure facts I was posting I was not saying whether or not they were inspired. I was merely saying what existed, when it was written and also the other churches that consider them scripture

[Guest Guest]

It doesn't say that Enoch wrote anything down, just that he SAID he saw the Lord coming. How did Jude know this? Who knows! How did Paul know that what a pagan prophet said was "inspired" by God?

Titus 1:12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.

You're not going to have all the answers. You just have to trust that God got to us what he wanted in the AV 1611.

Wil

[Jerry]

It doesn't say that Enoch wrote anything down' date=' just that he SAID he saw the Lord coming. How did Jude know this? Who knows! How did Paul know that what a pagan prophet said was "inspired" by God?[/quote']

Paul never said what the pagan prophet wrote was inspired by God - he did indicate it was a true statement - and Paul's statement that it was true was inspired by God.

[Guest Guest]

First of all the prophet SAID, didn't write. Secondly, I put the quotations around the word inspired to show I was being facetious not factual.

Wil

[Jerry]

First of all the prophet SAID' date=' didn't write.[/quote']

Your point being?... Obviously what he said (if he said it) was written down because Paul quoted a written work.



Thanks for clarifying. I did not catch that.

[JJJ4given]

First of all the prophet SAID, didn't write.
Wil

As stated before, let's not redefine a word to only mean what we want it to mean. Prophesied simply means truths declared, whether they be written OR spoken. It does not simply mean spoken. Tell me, how could this verse mean spoken?

Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

[John81]

Whatever God has given us in the pages of our Holy Bible is all that we really need. If God had wanted us to know more about Enoch or anything else that he did or said, He would have included it in the Bible. The Bible is to be our standard and our final written authority.

[Guest Guest]

How do you know that Paul quoted a written work. You better be careful in you assumptions there brother.

You know what happened when folks said that Enoch WROTE when all it's says that he SAID? Well, someone came along and made up a book of Enoch to say here's what Enoch wrote.

You know we have to be careful with what the word of God says. This is the mistake Eve made.

Wil