Exodus, chapter 25, verses 18-20

[Guest Guest]

Exodus, chapter 25 (King James Version)

18: And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat.
19: And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: even of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubims on the two ends thereof.
20: And the cherubims shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims be.

[Guest Guest]

:puzzled: The question?

[Danny Carlton]

I always thought the imagery of the Ark of the Covenant was ignored way too much. An empty seat with an angel on either side stretching their wings toward the seat.

Then later came an empty tomb, with two angels waiting to explain to John and Peter why it was empty.

[bibletotingunslinger]

:puzzled: The question?

me2 :puzzled:

[Guest Guest]

I always thought the imagery of the Ark of the Covenant was ignored way too much. An empty seat with an angel on either side stretching their wings toward the seat.

Then later came an empty tomb, with two angels waiting to explain to John and Peter why it was empty.

Great thought brother.

Wil

[Guest Guest]

Exodus' date=' chapter 25[/b'] (King James Version)

18: And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat.
19: And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: even of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubims on the two ends thereof.
20: And the cherubims shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims be.

I know that Lucifer was called a covering cherub.


Ezekiel 28:16- By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

Was he at one time one of these cherubs the covered the mercy seat (throne of God)? Again, a cherub and an angel are not quite the same. Satan can be "transformed into an angel of light" (as also a lion, man, serpent) but he really was much more powerful then an angel. The cherubs seem to guard or cover the holy throne of God , the mercy seat (Rev. 6:4-9). There only appears to be four others beside Lucifer mentioned in scripture. Everytime an angel (messenger) is mentioned in the Bible he resembles a man (Heb. 13:2), but there is no way a cherub in his normal state can be mistaken for a man (Ezekiel 1:4-14). Seraphims (Isaiah 6) seem to be a whole different creature by its discription.

Wil

[Jerry]

Actually, the four beasts in Revelation and the cherubim are not the same creatures. According to Ezekiel 1 and 10, cherubs have four faces each - whereas the beasts in Revelation have only one face each. Between the four beasts in Revelation, they have the four faces that one cherub has.

[brandplucked]

I know that Lucifer was called a covering cherub.


Ezekiel 28:16- By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

Was he at one time one of these cherubs the covered the mercy seat (throne of God)? Wil

Hi saints. That is a really cool idea about the two cherubs on the mercy seat and the two angels in the tomb of the Lord Jesus. I had never seen this before.

However, I do have an additional thought about Lucifer as the covering cherub and the two cherubs being made for the mercy seat. This thought did not originate with me at all. Other Bible commentators have mentioned the idea that Lucifer originally was the only "covering cherub" who was lifted up in pride because of his unique brilliance and high position.

So, as a object lesson in humility, when God commanded the Mercy Seat to be made, he commanded that there be two cherubs facing each other, so that it would be known that there was at least one other cherub that was just like the other one, and not "unique" like Lucifer was, who fell because of his pride.

This is speculation, but it does seem to make some good sense.

God bless,

Will K

[Kubel]

I have a sort of simple question I'll throw out here, and it relates to Catholicism:

Why do you all suppose God made an exception to his commandment (provided just a few chapters prior) of no graven images when he commanded the ark to be created with two golden cherubim?

Is it possible that graven images are acceptable, so long as they are not worshiped as idols?

If it was ok for the Jews to create two golden cherubim, would it not also be ok for the Catholics to create statues of angels or saints, or for us to erect statues of great historical figures, etc..?

What are your thoughts?

[sarcrew]

My thoughts would be:

I don't see it as an exception. As I see it --
1. We are not to try to make any image representing God.
2. Hence we are to never worship any image, or make an image that others may worship. - i.e. no image of baal because baal had followers. We would be assisting in idolatry.
3. To my knowledge no one worshipped or worships cherubs - hence no exception needed.

Wayne

[Jerry]

The Bible does not teach it is wrong to make images of anything - it specifically (all passages taken into consideration) states that we are not to make images of God or of false gods - ie. images of any kind of god or representations of God. Angels are not; therefore carving them out does not contradict that commandment - unless someone was specifically worshipping them as their god or spirit guide, etc. - then it would be wrong. For example, I do not think a picture or statue of a wolf is wrong in itself - however, when it is part of native art, then it is because it is something they worship - their spirit animals, their gods - that is why you will find them on their totem poles.

[Kubel]

"Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth."

Creating the likeness of an angel would probably be classified as creating "any likeness of anything that is in heaven above". If this is so, why did God allow it with the ark?

[Jerry]

Context. Obviously there is no contradiction within the Word of God itself - so the contradiction is with your understanding of what is being commanded. Compare all the passages together that forbid the making of graven images. The solution is not to explain away the passages or think it doesn't apply, but instead find out what God IS telling us to do. I believe, based on all the passages taken together (including Deuteronomy 4), that the Lord is telling us not to make images of God or of false gods (regardless of whether these images are worshipped or not). The Israelites were not worshipping the Cherubim, nor were they to worship the brazen serpent - and both were commanded by God for the Israelites to make. When Hezekiah came along and found the brazen serpent had become an idol, he destroyed it.

[zealyouthguy]

"Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth."

Creating the likeness of an angel would probably be classified as creating "any likeness of anything that is in heaven above". If this is so, why did God allow it with the ark?

That is why context must always be consulted.

Exodus 20:3-5 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

The commandment is:

NO GOD BEFORE ME

The clarification is:
Don't carve anything and bow down to it.

The history is: A people just came out of Egypt where they were enslaved and indoctrinated with that evil lifestyle.