What is wrong with Christian Contemporary Music and Rock?

[PreacherBen]

Kevin, you asked:

Off topic: What's wrong with electric guitars?

Technically, there is nothing wrong with electric guitars. It is just a an instrument. However, if by association, I look like the guy doing the above (well stated) "rock" music, then I am sinning by not avoiding the appearance of evil. I might be playing Amazing Grace, but someone looking through a window and not hearing the song doesn't know what I'm playing. One might say, "Well, the same applies to if they saw you singing and couldn't hear you." But, I could be singing anything, and they'd have no earthly idea, but if they saw me playing a Fender Strat, they could only assume, I'm rockin' or playing the blues.

1 and 1/2 cents worth,
Ben

[kevinmiller]

If you can play a beautiful rendition of "Amazing Grace" on the electrical guitar, why not do it? If the piano was primarily associated with jazz, no one would stop using it because it is a beautiful instrument. I would say that being in jail definitely gives the appearance of evil and Paul and Silas were there, but they used it for God's glory.

[HappyChristian]

I would say that being in jail definitely gives the appearance of evil and Paul and Silas were there' date=' but they used it for God's glory.[/quote']

Not a good example, Kevin. They were there because of their stand for Christ...no appearance of evil there.

[trc123]

So, you don't think that the scribes, pharisees and hypocrites thought that what they were doing was evil? In other words, the "world's crowd" didn't think they were doing evil?

[HappyChristian]

Hmmm, did they think what Paul and Silas were doing was evil? Or did they just want them out of the way because of their influence on the people? Fear of losing religious authority? In Herod's case of imprisoning Peter - to "please the people." No - I don't think they felt the apostles were doing evil. I think the scribes, etc. were afraid.

[trc123]

I'm sure you are right that they were afraid of losing control and such; but I'm certain there were those (not unlike Saul) who were zealous in their persecution of the Christians believing that they were doing and believing "evil" or heresy.

[HappyChristian]

trc - I'm sure there were some, but I really don't think that was the reason that any of the apostles were jailed - ergo my opinion that comparison doesn't work.

[kevinmiller]

Yes, but all of the other prisoners in jail would not have known the reason that they were in prison.
Besides that example, Jesus gave an "appearance of evil" by healing on the Sabbath and eating with sinners. I think this would probably be a good time to reference Dwayne's post on the appearance of evil. hehe It could not mean looking like evil because that wouldn't coincide with Scriptural examples and it wouldn't make sense, practically, in every day life. Sometimes God might call us to do something that appears evil to another person for His glory. To a lot of people who practice other religions(including other Christian denominations), things that we do and never think about are evil to them. That doesn't mean that we should avoid those things. Rather, as it is put in the NIV, we should "avoid every kind of evil."

[Guest Guest]

Yes, but all of the other prisoners in jail would not have known the reason that they were in prison.
Besides that example, Jesus gave an "appearance of evil" by healing on the Sabbath and eating with sinners. I think this would probably be a good time to reference Dwayne's post on the appearance of evil. hehe It could not mean looking like evil because that wouldn't coincide with Scriptural examples and it wouldn't make sense, practically, in every day life. Sometimes God might call us to do something that appears evil to another person for His glory. To a lot of people who practice other religions(including other Christian denominations), things that we do and never think about are evil to them. That doesn't mean that we should avoid those things. Rather, as it is put in the NIV, we should "avoid every kind of evil."

Dude, now you've done it. You can't possibly expect anyone to take you seriously now that you have invoked the apostasy of the NIV into the debate. Classic.

I responded in this thread several months back with a lengthy post about the traditions of men within the church. Nobody bothered to answer it, and I won't say I'm surprised. The fact remains that music is man-made and therefore subject to the rules of tradition. Every song, at one point in time, was contemporary. Every hymn faced its own battle before it finally hit the "big time" by being accepted into the holy church hymnal. Do I care what you listen to? Not at all. Will I call people out for condemning music by their preference and out-of-context verses? ummm...yeah.

[Hambone]

If it could be pleasing and attractive to the world, then it is more than likely worldly music. I don't like to use faddish examples, but the WWJD application would apply here. Can you imagine our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ, bouncing around in a Christian "mosh pit"? If you can, you are on crack. If you can't, you would be correct. We, as Christians, are supposed to strive to be Christ-like. If Jesus wouldn't do it, neither should we. Can anyone here show me a single instance in the Word of God where God lowered His standards, or gave up His principles to appear worldly to attract the world. If Christianity was supposed to appear worldly for the purpose of attracting the world, there would be no "straight and narrow" way.

Research the term 'Rock-n-Roll' and tell me if Jesus would associate Himself with such a term.

[Hambone]

Yes, but all of the other prisoners in jail would not have known the reason that they were in prison.
Besides that example, Jesus gave an "appearance of evil" by healing on the Sabbath and eating with sinners. I think this would probably be a good time to reference Dwayne's post on the appearance of evil. hehe It could not mean looking like evil because that wouldn't coincide with Scriptural examples and it wouldn't make sense, practically, in every day life. Sometimes God might call us to do something that appears evil to another person for His glory. To a lot of people who practice other religions(including other Christian denominations), things that we do and never think about are evil to them. That doesn't mean that we should avoid those things. Rather, as it is put in the NIV, we should "avoid every kind of evil."

Not abstaining from the appearance of evil is sin. You have just labeled our Saviour a sinner, in which case, we are all hellbound.

Now, in reality, you've twisted the Word of God to meet your worldly desires. What man, or the pharisees and saducees considered evil was not evil in God's eyes. God's cosideration of evil is the only definition of evil. Today, many consider Christian Fundamentalism as evil and as dangerous as Islamic Fundamentalism. Whether I believe Christian Rock is evil doesn't matter. God does. That's all that matters. You need to get to know God if you believe that a Christian Rock concert is pleasing to Him. Look at these "artists". You cannot tell many from worldly rock bands--and if it wasn't for the words, you couldn't tell it was a Christian song--and that's if you can hear the words over the music. What have the 20 year old children experienced to lead them to write "Christian" music? I'm not saying you must have some "experience" to write good music, but look at the hymns in your hymn book (if your church still has one--many don't anymore). Read the story about "It is Well With My Soul". Tell me what is more pleasing to God. A Christian rock song written for popularity and possible nominations for music awards--or a Christian song written by a man who just lost everything, his house, wife, daughters, etc.; yet, can still pen a hymn and say, "It is well with my soul." Let one of these "artists" writing world-blessed "Christian" music go through such a trial (I really don't wish that upon anyone) and see what they turn to. . . .

[Hambone]

The scribes, pharisees, and hypocrites were THE WORLD. I guess abortion is okay then, right? The world currently sees the anti-abortion crowd as evil. We, as Christians, are not pleasing the world. If the world is pleased by our actions, we are probably not in line with Jesus. HE said the world would HATE us for His name's sake.

[trc123]

Go back to the beginning and try to follow the train of thought.

[kevinmiller]

Can you imagine our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ, bouncing around in a Christian "mosh pit"?

I can't imagine myself doing it either. lol
You won't find a mosh pit at Casting Crowns concerts. I never said that all CCM is good CCM. Just because some groups are in it for money and popularity and and have mosh pits where people can go and dance around doesn't mean that all artists are like that. Not at all.

If it could be pleasing and attractive to the world, then it is more than likely worldly music.

A nice vacation on the beach is certainly pleasing and attractive to the world. Is it wrong? From what I read in Scripture, Christ was appealing to the worst of sinners because of the mercy and forgiveness He offered. Just because something is appealing doesn't mean it's wrong.

Not abstaining from the appearance of evil is sin. You have just labeled our Saviour a sinner, in which case, we are all hellbound.

Doing just about anything where other people are can look like you "might" be doing something evil. That's why your interpretation of that verse cannot be correct. It means to avoid all kinds of evil, not something that looks like it could be evil, but to avoid evil itself. Avoid all appearance of evil = stay away from evil whenever and wherever it shows itself.

Now, in reality, you've twisted the Word of God to meet your worldly desires. What man, or the pharisees and saducees considered evil was not evil in God's eyes. God's cosideration of evil is the only definition of evil. Today, many consider Christian Fundamentalism as evil and as dangerous as Islamic Fundamentalism. Whether I believe Christian Rock is evil doesn't matter. God does. That's all that matters.

I'm afraid you're doing exactly what you're accusing me of doing. You're telling me that it doesn't matter what people consider evil, only what God considers evil. Then you tell me we should avoid what YOU consider to be evil. Yet, you say God considers it to be evil. Then what do you do? You proceed to give your opinion that rock music must be evil without referencing a single verse of Scripture. Interesting...

What have the 20 year old children experienced to lead them to write "Christian" music?

Honestly, this offends me and it offends Scripture.
1 Timothy 4:12 Let no man despise thy youth;

There are a lot of kids who have been through more in their first 20 years of living than you'll ever have to go through. I find it very offensive that you insinuate that, since a person is young, they cannot write great things for God, especially being a writer myself and having been through my own trials growing up that you'll never know about nor would I share it with you since I can see your evident arrogance and lack of Christian love in the few postings you've already made here.

[HappyChristian]

Honestly, this offends me and it offends Scripture.
1 Timothy 4:12 Let no man despise thy youth;

There are a lot of kids who have been through more in their first 20 years of living than you'll ever have to go through. I find it very offensive that you insinuate that, since a person is young, they cannot write great things for God, especially being a writer myself and having been through my own trials growing up that you'll never know about nor would I share it with you since I can see your evident arrogance and lack of Christian love in the few postings you've already made here.

Hey, Kevin, I just wanted to address this. You've used 1 Tim 4:12 more than once, and used it in a way that tries to put the blame on someone "offending" someone who is young. But that is not what Timothy is being taught. Paul is exhorting him to behave in such a way that people won't despise his youth - he is not saying anything about someone who makes a comment on someone's youth. So, no, his comment doesn't offend Scripture.

He did kind of qualify his comment in the next statement. I agree with you that young people can write things that are great - I did when I was in my 20's, and my son did when he was in his teens! So, I'm not disagreeing with the point you are making - just your mis-usage of 1 Tim. 4:12: "Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity."

(and don't forget, Kevin - "Great peace have they which love thy law and nothing shall offend them." If someone is making a blanket statement with which we don't agree - we oughtn't get offended! I realize that it is because you are 20 - but to get offended and then become agitated is simply losing ground! You know you can write good things, because God has helped you do so...in light of eternity, it doesn't matter what someone you've never met thinks!)