Asbury Revival

[Pastor Matt]

Is anybody following the Asbury revival. If so, what are your thoughts about it?

I'll post videos tonight in case anyone's not sure what it's all about

[BrotherTony]

I have to say that I've been hearing about this even from both sides. For me, I'm a bit apprehensive about these "spontaneous" revivals, especially when they "occur" right before a big project at the college/university is due. Why don't we ask David Cloud?  I think I'll hold off on giving a total a yea or a nay on whether or not it's real. We'll have to see and inspect the fruit of said event. 

[Pastor Matt]

I really hope it's real, but I agree it's best to wait and see. Unfortunately, sometimes these events turn into a healing/deliverance meetings with speaking in tongues.

 

I really hope this is a genuine revival. 

[Salyan]

If it does turn into false fire, that doesn't prevent the first/current work from being genuine. Satan loves to corrupt works of God if he can.

Here's some thoughts on Asbury by someone who is respected by people I respect.
https://www.revivalfocus.org/the-spirit-of-revival-at-asbury/?mibextid=unz460&fbclid=IwAR0JLfaQdrkuHHN_YQnPZkV1HhDG-3yRHSCtE0p_Qkr1frVXpUPBYDhKx-k

[Pastor Matt]

Here's the article about in case anyone is living under a rock. lol

https://www.foxnews.com/us/christian-university-kentucky-draws-pilgrims-nationwide-spiritual-revival-gives-me-so-much-hope

[BrotherTony]

My second cousin who witnessed the first Asbury "revival" back in 1970 said that many people she knows who are there are stating it's the "real thing." I pointed her to the fact of false revivals, but also let her know that I wasn't judging this one before the time. The fruits will tell. I gave her an example of one that is allegedly going on here in the Middle Tennessee area with the GVBC run by Mr. Locke. The responses from these involved in that "revival" towards others is proof to me that it's not a revival at all, but a staged media event. 

[Disciple.Luke]

On 2/16/2023 at 12:27 PM, PastorMatt said:

Is anybody following the Asbury revival. If so, what are your thoughts about it?

I'll post videos tonight in case anyone's not sure what it's all about

Pastor Matt - A local Pastor and friend of mine in the Church of God (Anderson) recently posted what he observed at the Asbury revival.

These are his thoughts...not mine but I know him well enough to know he is knowledgeable and discerning when it comes to the faith. I will leave his name out but he posted this publicly on Facebook.

"

After attending this week on Tuesday and Wednesday what has been labeled the revival at Asbury, I have experienced the move of God first hand. The total time I spent inside the chapel was roughly 9-10 hours. I saw many dynamics during this time, all of which I am not attempting to divulge in this post.

My feeling in the chapel: I felt energized most of the time. The crowd was full of praise and worship and the energy was contagious. There was much excitement, but also plenty of time for calm, deep praising toward God. Even when the praise was calm, the entire room was full of energy. Better yet, there was synergy in the room: people were of one heart and one mind in the chapel. Overall, the feeling I felt in there was not “chasing” a move of God. I experienced the same feeling that I have when I worship with mostly any group of believers. However, this was by no means stale.

With any event that includes such a massive amount of people, as there was a long line for entry outside, there is “messiness.” Some people are there for entertainment, some to see what the excitement is all about, so to be included in a historic event, and some who want to experience God in a deeper way. I assume this list (which is not exclusive) can also be a mixture for motive and is not limited to only one.

I saw many at the alter. Many were praying and being prayed for. I saw people who appeared to be repentant, and time will tell if they walk out repentance and turn their hearts to the Lord. Much like the parable of the sower, there are some who the devil will snatch what was planted right away. Some seeds will be choked by the worries of the world. Some seeds will fall away due to trouble and persecution. But some seed will bear fruit.

Know this, seeds are being planted. Seeds are being watered. This is a move of God and will result in changed lives. Some will be radically transformed through this event, through the Holy Spirit. Repentance is being preached, but there is mostly praise, worship, vulnerability. I also saw radical generosity.

Overall:

I wanted to see more testimony, more gospel preaching, more encouragement and exhortation. I wanted to see more people let in and less control. Some people who took control of the event were managing it in a way that actually turned away some when there was room for them. This is sad news. I wanted to see more freedom and less control for this type of move of God. However, God is moving in the hearts of many here. Movements of God are not limited to my perspective and approach. There’s room for God to move here."

Edited February 17, 2023 by Disciple.Luke

[Jim_Alaska]

I know that this may seem negative, but as an Independent Baptist I have to wonder how someone that is a current pastor in The Church of God, can also be described as "knowledgeable and discerning when it comes to the faith." So this begs the question: "when it comes to the faith" . What faith, The Church of God?

So then, if this pastor endorses this revival, what does it say for the revival itself? I don't see this as anything that Baptists should even consider. 

[Disciple.Luke]

17 minutes ago, Jim_Alaska said:

I know that this may seem negative, but as an Independent Baptist I have to wonder how someone that is a current pastor in The Church of God, can also be described as "knowledgeable and discerning when it comes to the faith." So this begs the question: "when it comes to the faith" . What faith, The Church of God?

So then, if this pastor endorses this revival, what does it say for the revival itself? I don't see this as anything that Baptists should even consider. 

Brother Jim - When I was thinking about how to describe my Pastor friend I was very hesitant about how it could come across.

I've spent a lot of time speaking with him and he is very different than MOST Church of God Pastors. While most are becoming more progressive this one isn't. 

In his congregation - sin isn't ignored, hymns are preferred over "concert" entertainment worship, and there is always a call for salvation. Since I live in Anderson where it is headquarters are I know plenty of "church of God" members and Pastors and in my opinion this specific one stands out to me in a denomination that is spiraling with progressive beliefs.

Since Asbury is a Wesleyan Holiness oriented seminary I don't know of any IFB who have attended.

It wasn't my intention to affirm the beliefs of the Church of God as the truth. My intention was to share the opinion of someone who was actually there in response to Pastor Matt's question.

I apologize if I offended anyone..that's wasn't my intention.

Edited February 17, 2023 by Disciple.Luke

[John Young]

On 2/16/2023 at 1:00 PM, PastorMatt said:

I really hope it's real

All I know is that it Isn't my Revival. All that really matters is if those experiencing revival draw closer to God and not further away because of it. Everything else doesn't matter, ie opinions of critics and those looking in on revivals that aren't reviving them personally (because when you aren't being dealt with directly by God it will never seem real) or are only trying to find doctrinal faults in order to dampen its potential effects of their revival. Only they whom God is dealing with directly can truly respond to their revival. The rest is just sensationalism masquerading as revival and people with mere curiosity.

Edited February 17, 2023 by John Young

[Jim_Alaska]

No offence taken at all Bro. Luke. I just find it hard in my own mind to accept that God would work through an apostate church that is a direct result of the Reformation. In that respect I would hesitate to even call it a church, since Jesus only established one kind of church and called it His 1500 years before there was a Church of God.

Matthew 16:18 (KJV) And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Bro. John, I would beg to differ with this that you said: "Everything else doesn't matter" How can doctrinal error result in revival?

Things that are different are not the same.
Ephesians 4:5 (KJV) One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 

[Disciple.Luke]

4 minutes ago, Jim_Alaska said:

No offence taken at all Bro. Luke. I just find it hard in my own mind to accept that God would work through an apostate church that is a direct result of the Reformation. In that respect I would hesitate to even call it a church, since Jesus only established one kind of church and called it His.

Matthew 16:18 (KJV) And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Things that are different are not the same.
Ephesians 4:5 (KJV) One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 

Thank you Brother but I certainly realize the validity of your concern.

Being from Anderson the Church of God was where I initially found my attending. As I became more familiar with the Bible I began to see real issues with what nearly every church of God Pastor focused their preaching on.

I eventually got to the point where I no longer felt that what the church of God was teaching was biblical and I haven't attended one for many years although I do occasionally look at their websites and watch some sermons on YouTube to just get a feel of where they are headed Theologically.

Having said I completely agree with your assessment of their overall teachings. I refuse to even listen to music like the Gaithers because of their connection with Church of God.

[Salyan]

Do we want God to work in the midst of other believers, or not? Yes, there are serious doctrinal problems - but what better way for God to change their hearts and minds than through revival? Do we expect them to repent and come to true doctrine without the working of God in their spirit?

There's a story I remember reading of the Welsh revival. That revival changed the face of a nation. Bars closed down due to lack of customers, churches (often Baptist) were planted across the country (most are empty now, but when I visited my great-grandfather's Welsh valley a few years back, I saw 3 or 4 old Baptist churches within a very few miles of each other), and the nation of singers became the nation of hymn writers.   The revival did not respect denominational lines, and many believers went to wherever the Spirit was moving, regardless of creed. But there was one church on one island that refused to allow its people to join the revival. They refused because the meeting houses where it was occurring in their area were not of their creed. That church did not end up experiencing this amazing (and irrefutable) revival. 

As an IFB, that story bothers me. I'm fairly certain I'd be one of those that wouldn't go to a place because of their doctrinal problems (I probably wouldn't go to Asbury).  But I'd also have missed out. I don't know how to reconcile this. How can we as IFB respect the work of the Spirit where He moves without discounting genuine doctrinal concerns?  

I don't know if this is or isn't genuine revival. Honestly, if the kids present are getting right with God & each other, then they likely are being revived, regardless of how far this may go. I am alarmed by this mindset that presumes that God won't revive other Christians - other true believers - because they aren't us.  How many of the great revivals & awakenings of yesteryear were purely Baptist revivals?

[Jim_Alaska]

Sister Salyan, I am  NOT of the mindset that God won't or doesn't revive other Christians, or save unbelievers in other denominations. God can and will do as He pleases. I do think that in instances such as this, that there is a serious question that we need to ask as to the validity of any actual, genuine revival; that question is, would The Lord our God use doctrinal error as His means of revival?

Perhaps the problem here is that we just don't know what is being taught doctrinally during these services. It is not beyond the scope of reason or possibility to allow that for this time, in this church, using this pastor, that the truth of God's Word was preached, resulting in revival.

One thing I am certain of is, that The Lord our God would not use false doctrine to accomplish revival. 
Romans 3:8 (KJV) And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.

By Inspiration of The Holy Spirit, Paul taught this regarding false doctrine:
Galatians 1:8 (KJV) But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

So, I guess that what this all boils down to for me is simply this. Doctrine. is the true doctrine of salvation by Grace being preached, or is what is being preached the false doctrine of The Church of God? If it is truth I readily accept it, if it is doctrinal error, I am compelled to reject it as a true revival.

[Disciple.Luke]

31 minutes ago, Jim_Alaska said:

Sister Salyan, I am  NOT of the mindset that God won't or doesn't revive other Christians, or save unbelievers in other denominations. God can and will do as He pleases. I do think that in instances such as this, that there is a serious question that we need to ask as to the validity of any actual, genuine revival; that question is, would The Lord our God use doctrinal error as His means of revival?

Perhaps the problem here is that we just don't know what is being taught doctrinally during these services. It is not beyond the scope of reason or possibility to allow that for this time, in this church, using this pastor, that the truth of God's Word was preached, resulting in revival.

One thing I am certain of is, that The Lord our God would not use false doctrine to accomplish revival. 
Romans 3:8 (KJV) And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.

By Inspiration of The Holy Spirit, Paul taught this regarding false doctrine:
Galatians 1:8 (KJV) But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

So, I guess that what this all boils down to for me is simply this. Doctrine. is the true doctrine of salvation by Grace being preached, or is what is being preached the false doctrine of The Church of God? If it is truth I readily accept it, if it is doctrinal error, I am compelled to reject it as a true revival.

Brother Jim - In my posts I didn’t mean to imply that Asbury Theological Seminary was a Church of God (Anderson) affiliated school although some of their Pastors do go there for furthering theological studies. I apologize if I started the confusion by quoting a church of God pastors experience at the revival.

Im not completely sure which denomination Asbury is connected to but it is historically Methodist. I know of Free Methodists, Nazarenes, Wesleyans, etc.. who attend there as well. Most of these groups have slightly different beliefs than the church of God.

Many of the other denominations that are affiliated with Asbury I would consider to be of “conservative holiness movement”. The Church of God today would have much more in common than the United Methodist than the other I mentioned.

I looked at the Asbury website and I did see several staff members who were from the United Methodist Church. That is somewhat surprising to me because I have always heard of it being a more conservative seminary. 

The main seminar for the Church of God is Anderson University but I know several Pastors who went to Wesley Theological Seminary and Asbury to pursue doctorates.

Edited February 18, 2023 by Disciple.Luke