Church businesses …

[TheGloryLand]

Can someone please explain to me, a Baptist Church has a pastor, he has a assistant pastor, deacons, and the committee, chosen members. When this group gathers together to make a decision for the church to present it to the members. Why is it that they, the leaders are making the decisions, before presenting it to the members of the church. Presenting it to the members for the first time and asking for a vote on the issue, when the decision is already made from up Top.

it’s like me asking everyone what kind of pizza would they like to eat, everybody put their input, but at the end I said, thank you I already ordered pepperoni pizzas. Why ask for a vote in the first place. I see this happening in many churches. They are fooling the members, making them feel like they are part of the decision making, but they are really not. Sad.

[Pastor Matt]

I'm not familiar with the example you provided. I've never seen the church staff ask for members to vote without first opening it up for discussion. I've even seen the "decision" be changed or altered many times after the church discuses the issue. 

[BrotherTony]

I have to say @E Morales, I think you're misunderstanding what is happening. I've never heard of a Baptist church doing this, and I KNOW that none of them I've been a part of have. The pastor usually brings things before the deacons and certain others in the church to see if it can be presented to the body as a recommendation. As PastorMatt has stated, then there is usually a time of discussion and recommendations, then a vote on the matter. The discussion period is crucial. The pastor isn't authorized to make the decision on his own, or with the blessings of the deacons and certain members of the church. It simply doesn't work that way.

[Jim_Alaska]

Any church business should be presented to the whole congregation before any business meeting concerning it is conducted. It is not fair or ethical for only a few, even if they are staff, to know about and deliberate on things before introducing them to the congregation.

In this scenario the few get plenty of time to talk things over, examine them, take and make suggestions and such. Then it is presented to the congregation, to whom this is all brand new and they have no time to even think about it before having to discuss and vote.

I am talking about important church business, not something as simple as who is going to bring what to a pot luck. For important church business time should be provided for people to think, discuss, and research any important business.

To me, this can be one o the main problems with having things like Deacons and committees and extra staff. Even thought some of these may be needed in a large church, they should not be allowed to "run the show".

[TheGloryLand]

4 hours ago, BrotherTony said:

I have to say @E Morales, I think you're misunderstanding what is happening. I've never heard of a Baptist church doing this, and I KNOW that none of them I've been a part of have. The pastor usually brings things before the deacons and certain others in the church to see if it can be presented to the body as a recommendation. As PastorMatt has stated, then there is usually a time of discussion and recommendations, then a vote on the matter. The discussion period is crucial. The pastor isn't authorized to make the decision on his own, or with the blessings of the deacons and certain members of the church. It simply doesn't work that way.

Everyone that’s in the ministry knows the proper ways and the bylaws, but they seem to twist it to their advantage. Let me say that they are not stealing or doing anything wrong. But by not letting the members not participate. There are those that will read this post and not openly say that they are doing this, because it’s wrong. Hopefully they will follow the bylaws if they are being watched. If the membership start going down, this could be the reason why.

Edited September 28, 2021 by E Morales

[BrotherTony]

1 minute ago, E Morales said:

Everyone that’s in the ministry knows the proper ways and the bylaws, but they seem to twist it to their vantage. Let me say that they are not stealing or doing anything wrong. But by not letting the members not participate. There are those that will read this post and not openly say that they are doing this, because it’s wrong. Hopefully they will follow the bylaws if they are being watched. If the membership start going down, this could be the reason why.

I don't believe that is so, @E Morales. You can't lump all preachers in together, just as you cannot lump all Baptist churches in together. If you don't believe these people are doing anything wrong, then why bring this "issue," or what seems to be an issue in your eyes, to the forefront? It seems sort of disingenuous to me. Usually the reason the membership/attendance goes down is because the people have no wish to listen to sound preaching, true doctrine, and pointed talk about sin. Granted, some pastors have become lax in their duty to preach these things. But, I still find the problem usually comes with a church body that is more in love with the world than the Lord.

[Bouncing Bill]

We went to a consensus rule. Like the Quakers, if everyone does not agree, it does not pass. Of course, a person can abstain. We see that as saying, I do not totally agree. But if a consensus is reached I can live with it. 

[TheGloryLand]

1 hour ago, BrotherTony said:

I don't believe that is so, @E Morales. You can't lump all preachers in together, just as you cannot lump all Baptist churches in together. If you don't believe these people are doing anything wrong, then why bring this "issue," or what seems to be an issue in your eyes, to the forefront? It seems sort of disingenuous to me. Usually the reason the membership/attendance goes down is because the people have no wish to listen to sound preaching, true doctrine, and pointed talk about sin. Granted, some pastors have become lax in their duty to preach these things. But, I still find the problem usually comes with a church body that is more in love with the world than the Lord.

I did not say all Baptist churches or all preacher have this problem.

[BrotherTony]

22 minutes ago, E Morales said:

I did not say all Baptist churches or all preacher have this problem.

The way you have your issue worded, it seems like they're all lumped in together. You DID use the word "Everyone," and then when you go to the next part of your statement you only use the word "they." Gives the impression that you mean exactly what you wrote. I was pretty sure you KNEW already that it wasn't all, but I had to make sure!  No offense was meant, and I hope none was taken. By the defensive posturing in your statement, it seems you did, and I'm sorry for that.

[TheGloryLand]

4 minutes ago, BrotherTony said:

The way you have your issue worded, it seems like they're all lumped in together. You DID use the word "Everyone," and then when you go to the next part of your statement you only use the word "they." Gives the impression that you mean exactly what you wrote. I was pretty sure you KNEW already that it wasn't all, but I had to make sure!  No offense was meant, and I hope none was taken. By the defensive posturing in your statement, it seems you did, and I'm sorry for that.

Thanks, my grammar is not the best. But this problem I have presented can be easily fixed. Let the members of the church participate in all mayor decisions.

[BrotherTony]

5 minutes ago, E Morales said:

Thanks, my grammar is not the best. But this problem I have presented can be easily fixed. Let the members of the church participate in all mayor decisions.

In most of the churches, if not all of them that I've ever been in, this is what they do with two exceptions, I believe. When we were in the Missionary Baptist movement, there were decisions made by one pastor and the deacons without benefit of the congregations input. Sad day that was.

[Pastorj]

This is very common in Baptist churches unfortunately. There is the idea that the Pastor is God's man and therefore makes all the decisions because sheep are so dumb that they can't remember to drink water if you don't take them everyday.

Unfortunately I have seen this far more often than I would like.

The correct way is for the Pastor to present his vision,  let the people pray about it and then move forward. Votes are needed for certain things due to legal requirements 

[TheGloryLand]

50 minutes ago, Pastorj said:

This is very common in Baptist churches unfortunately. There is the idea that the Pastor is God's man and therefore makes all the decisions because sheep are so dumb that they can't remember to drink water if you don't take them everyday.

Unfortunately I have seen this far more often than I would like.

The correct way is for the Pastor to present his vision,  let the people pray about it and then move forward. Votes are needed for certain things due to legal requirements 

I believe sharing the vision first, be humble and share your view. Will do you well, not behind the curtains, favoritisms are not welcome, because you like this brown nose person.

[Pastor Matt]

10 hours ago, Pastorj said:

This is very common in Baptist churches unfortunately. There is the idea that the Pastor is God's man and therefore makes all the decisions because sheep are so dumb that they can't remember to drink water if you don't take them everyday.

Unfortunately I have seen this far more often than I would like.

The correct way is for the Pastor to present his vision,  let the people pray about it and then move forward. Votes are needed for certain things due to legal requirements 

Would you say it is more prevalent down south than up north, or about the same?

[SureWord]

I've never experienced this. I know in one church I was a member of the pastor tried to use a little politics among the members during private conversations to get Mr. Money Bags elected as a new deacon but everything still was brought before the whole congregation for a vote. 

His politicking didn't work.