Was there any Baptist who interpreted Jonah 3: 10 that repentance of sin is a work prior to Steven Anderson?

[heartstrings]

On 3/6/2021 at 4:12 PM, Jim_Alaska said:

SureWord, "heartstrings" is a Baptist pastor from Florida; so, not a sister, but a brother.

Not a sister, Not a pastor. But still a brother.

[mbkjpreacher]

On 1/8/2021 at 9:40 PM, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Yes, with explanation.  I have heard previously that "repentance for salvation" is being made into a work IF it is being defined as a "turning from sinful behavior" for salvation.  However, those whom I have previously encountered along this line then proceed to indicate that such is a false definition for repentance; and they have further provided a definition that they believe does not make "repentance for salvation" out to be work.

(Note: I myself would also hold that "repentance for salvation" is being made into a work IF it is being defined as a "turning from unrighteous behavior unto righteous behavior."  Now, I hold strongly that repentance IS a Biblical requirement for true salvation, and when Biblically defined is NOT a work.  Even so, I also hold strongly that "repentance for salvation" should be defined as a "turning from a committed love for unrighteousness unto the only Savior from unrighteousness."  I believe that "repentance for salvation" is a "change of mind" concerning "sin, righteousness, and judgement" (as per John 16:8-11) that will lead to a change in decision; and I believe that in "repentance for salvation" the change in decision is precisely the decision to place faith in God the Son, Jesus the Christ, as personal Savior, nothing more.)

By the way, the Calvinistic system of belief has often claimed that the obedience of faith for salvation is a work IF it is defined in the non-Calvinistic manner, and that it is not work (as per the Scriptures) ONLY if it is defined according to their system of doctrine.

(Note: In my experiences above, the conversations were NOT about Jonah 3:10 per se, but about the correct definition of "repentance for salvation.")

Does Anderson not consider unbelief as sin?  

On 3/7/2021 at 4:26 AM, SureWord said:

Sounds good to me, sister.

When a man changes his mind from a wrong action, say a man changes his mind from wrong driving to right way of driving, is the change of mind the work or the driving is the work?  

[Guest The change of mind]

On 8/9/2021 at 1:03 PM, mbkjpreacher said:

Does Anderson not consider unbelief as sin?  

When a man changes his mind from a wrong action, say a man changes his mind from wrong driving to right way of driving, is the change of mind the work or the driving is the work?  

There is inconsistency with Anderson's teaching when he says that you don't repent of sin but if you ask them they will admit that unbelief is sin.  

So ask them, do you repent of the sin of unbelief?  So you do repent of sin to be saved? 

when you change your mind from wrong driving to right driving, it is not the driving that is the change of mind, but the change of mind from wrong driving to right driving is not a work

[Jerry]

Biblical repentance is a change of mind always resulting in a change of conduct. With man, it is to do with sin, and therefore often involves sorrow for those same sins. When man truly repents of sin in his heart, his conduct will change. Repentance is not the change in conduct, but what is behind it. When God repents of something, He changes what He was doing or going to do to certain people, nations, etc. because they changed - ie. turned from their sin therefore causing God to now give them grace and mercy, OR went further into sin causing God to now judge them and bring sin's consequences upon them.

There are a few different passages that set down this principle. Here is one:

Ezekiel 18:26-28 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die. Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive. Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

God threatened Nineveh with destruction which He was going to bring on them, but they repented and therefore God turned from the judgement He was going to give them. But around 40 years later, when Nineveh went back to their sin, God turned and brought judgement upon them. Though God never changed - the people did. God's principles and their consequences were always there.

[BrotherTony]

Jerry...are you sure you didn't listen to a broadcast from Robert Morris?  LOL  That was exactly what he was speaking on today!

 

[Jerry]

Never heard of him - but that is cool. Great minds think alike.

[heartstrings]

On 1/22/2021 at 6:11 PM, Jordan Kurecki said:

This is not exactly accurate. The word "repent" has different meaning depending on context, in the OT testament there are at least two different Hebrew words translated as repent. While one of the words translated as repent, Shub, means to turn, the more common word translated as repent however is Nacham, which means more of like "to sigh" and by implication means to be sorry, if you look at that particular Hebrew word and study it more you get the sense of someone has changed their thinking inwardly. Imagine a person "sighing" and changing their mind about something and realizing they were wrong.

In Greek the common word is metanoeo which literally means a change of mind. 
There is also another word where Judas "repented" that means more like regret. 

There really is no such as "THE" basic meaning of repent in the Bible, because depending upon the context, and depending on the Hebrew or Greek word, the word repent takes on different meanings.

You can't just come up with ONE theological definition of the word "repent" and then force that onto every word or passage in the Bible. 

 

In your explanations above, you haven't proved that the word "repent" means anything other than "to turn from or against"   You only affirmed it.  

 

Edited July 4, 2022 by heartstrings

[Jerry]

51 minutes ago, heartstrings said:

There really is no such as "THE" basic meaning of repent in the Bible, because depending upon the context, and depending on the Hebrew or Greek word, the word repent takes on different meanings.

You can't just come up with ONE theological definition of the word "repent" and then force that onto every word or passage in the Bible. 

(I realize that this quote was from Jordan, but I could not figure out how to edit the top part of the quote, because I copied it from Heartstring's post.) Actually, word usage does give the meaning (as I have stated above) - whether in regards to God, or in regards to man.

Jordan mentioned the reference to Judas repenting. The Bible does state he repented [towards] himself, not towards God, and the word used there does give the idea of regret. This word is only used 1/2 dozen times in the NT though.

[heartstrings]

15 hours ago, Jerry said:

(I realize that this quote was from Jordan, but I could not figure out how to edit the top part of the quote, because I copied it from Heartstring's post.) Actually, word usage does give the meaning (as I have stated above) - whether in regards to God, or in regards to man.

Jordan mentioned the reference to Judas repenting. The Bible does state he repented [towards] himself, not towards God, and the word used there does give the idea of regret. This word is only used 1/2 dozen times in the NT though.

Matthew 27:3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,

 

Repented himself When one "repents himself" (or as some say) "changes his mind" enough to realize what he did was wrong, and seeks to right that wrong like Judas did, even enough to go out and hang himself, that man has definitely "turned from or against" himself. Problem was, he did not "turn"towards God.

“It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be king: for he is turned back from following me, and hath not performed my commandments. And it grieved Samuel; and he cried unto the LORD all night.”

Subject "It"

Predicate "repenteth"

Direct object "me"(God)

Something "repented" God; not the other way around. Did God "repent" here? No. Did God make a mistake in setting up Saul? No. Did God "regret" that he had set up Saul? No. God knew all along that Saul would do this. But it was Saul's choice: the "Saul Administration" that God had "set up" had turned from/against Him. Different circumstances, different usage, but same word meaning.

God repented of the evil Now here, God did "repent". When God "repented", he turned(not from or against "himself") but from/against "the evil"(bad stuff) which He had intended to inflict on Nineveh. Different scenario, different intent but the basic meaning of the word remains. 

 

 

Edited July 5, 2022 by heartstrings

[heartstrings]

It's kind of like the word "saved". Same basic word meaning, but It can refer to different types of "salvation" in different contexts.

 

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

 

Exo 14:30

¶

Thus the LORD saved Israel that day out of the hand of the Egyptians; and Israel saw the Egyptians dead upon the sea shore. From Egyptians

[mbkjpreacher]

On 3/7/2021 at 4:26 AM, SureWord said:

Sounds good to me, sister.

Repentance comes first before faith.  See Acts 20:21, Heb. 6: 1; Mark 1: 15; and Matthew 21: 32 

 

For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.
(Matthew 21:32)
 

What comes first before repentance is head knowledge or intellectual faith.  

[mbkjpreacher]

On 3/5/2021 at 9:36 AM, Jim_Alaska said:

IMHO, I think a lot of misunderstanding comes in because people always want to equate repentance with sin. But the word actually means to "turn". So when we see that God repented in Scriptures such as Jerimiah and Micah, we need to understand that God simply turned from what He was going to do and did it not.

In both places He had said He would destroy both Jerusalem and Nineveh; but when they repented with a godly repentance, God also repented, or turned from what He had said He would do and did it not. No sin on God's part at all, he simply changed His mind and turned from His promise to destroy them.

The Hebrew word which was used referring to God in repentance is Nacham and that means beings sorry, while the Hebrew word of Turn is Shub.  My question, does the word Shub changes meaning if it refers to sin?  Andersonites believe that the Word Shub changes meaning that it is not only a change of mind but a work if sin is added to the word.  My question, if I change mind from wrong driving to right driving, does it mean that the change of mind is the driving because it is about wrong driving?  

On 3/3/2021 at 5:41 AM, heartstrings said:

Here's one use of the word translated from "Nacham".....

Jonah 3:10

 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

Do you think God "sighed" here? No He turned from the evil (bad stuff), which He was fully intending to do to them, when he saw that THEY had "turned" from theirs. Here's another.......

Genesis 6:6

And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

Do you think God "sighed" here as well? Do you think he was sorry that he made man? No, He did neither. Notice it does not even say "God repented". What it says is "it repented God". I personally do not believe God "regretted" making man(not saying that you would believe that) or that he was "sorry" or anything like that. What I believe it means here is that God's creation, namely man, had turned against him. To further that thought, there's another thing to consider,: none of this took God by surprise: He knew man would sin from the very beginning. So why "sigh" or even be sorry? 

 

God is grieved with sin.  

And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
(Ephesians 4:30)
 

 

 

 

[Jerry]

The Bible teaches that true repentance and faith come at the same time. When someone hears and understands the Gospel, they turn FROM their sin TO the Saviour. Someone has described it like this: Repentance is the hand (of faith) letting go of the sin as it is reaching for the Saviour.

[heartstrings]

2 hours ago, Jerry said:

The Bible teaches that true repentance and faith come at the same time. When someone hears and understands the Gospel, they turn FROM their sin TO the Saviour. Someone has described it like this: Repentance is the hand (of faith) letting go of the sin as it is reaching for the Saviour.

Very well put.

[MikeWatson1]

Yeah, turning from sin isn't having to give up smoking, or alcohol addiction etc.. it's knowing you can't do it without Jesus first delivering you from sin!