Cameron Giovanelli Resigns From Golden State Baptist College

[HappyChristian]

Positive results is a good thing. 

[heartstrings]

Not saying this was the case here, but how does a regular diet of teaching that the men/husbands in the church are not measuring up and not "leading the home" affect women of the church? If they're hearing things like "if you would lead, your wife would follow".  I mean, the only real leader must be the pastor if the "pew warmer" men are failing. And apparently, some women are attracted to such strong spiritual men who "have it all together". Where, in the Bible, does it say that the husband is to be the "leader" anyway? And this thing about "counseling women"; where is that in the Bible? I do find things like "the elder women teaching the younger" etc. Why aren't the older women doing this? What about making it a practice to never allow yourself to be in a compromising or questionable situation by NEVER being alone with another woman, teenager etc. besides your wife, daughter, mother or grandma?

[Jim_Alaska]

I must be having a senior moment  here this morning Heartstrings. I don't have a clue as to what you wrote, or how this applies to the subject of Cameron Giovanelli.

[heartstrings]

Let's see; the man got himself in trouble with a woman or teenager correct? Seems to me to be a problem in churches that needs fixing before the fact.

[Pastor Matt]

3 hours ago, heartstrings said:

Let's see; the man got himself in trouble with a woman or teenager correct? Seems to me to be a problem in churches that needs fixing before the fact.

How would one go about doing that? Is this a problem with the church or individuals? I'm not talking about cover-ups, but the sin itself.

[heartstrings]

Individuals. ( James 1:14)

But the church can put safeguards in place. First admit that all men (and women) are sexual beings. Stop isolating pastors and preachers from the congregation by considering them to be "God's annointed"(because all saved individuals are anointed)and quit fearing to question them or hold them accountable. Trust no man. Let all pastors, preachers and any other church leaders know this and make it known publicly that you require leaders to have someone with them at all times when with a member of the opposite sex. And, really, stop the "counseling" stuff with females. If a female needs counseling, set her up to meet with a Godly older woman (Titus 2:3-5)

As far as the congregation goes, stop teaching that men are to be "leaders" in the home. They're not. The Bible uses words like "rule", "head", "authority" for men and the home and by trying to be "politically correct" you're just conforming to the world. The Bible calls BOTH the husband and the wife to be, effectively, leaders. Why? Because if the wife is failing spiritually, the husband can "win" her  by loving and honoring her and, likewise, if the husband is doing poorly spiritually the wife can bring him back in line by "submitting" and living Godly before him. (1 Peter 3:1-7) Teach the women to honor and respect their husbands and, back to the sexual thing, teach BOTH husband and wife that temptation can be averted/controlled by not "defrauding". (1 Corinthians 7:1-5}

1 Corintians 7: 1Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. 2Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. 3Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband. 4The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife. 5Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency. 

Some like to let the men have it with both barrels on Father's Day; but I dare them to try preaching things like "submission", "authority", "rule" and "reverence" on Mother's Day. That would certainly be a shake-up. Actually, you SHOULD honor the Mothers on Mother's Day AND the Fathers on Father's day. There are around 150 other Sundays, Sunday nights and Wednesday nights during the year to do the other and when Paul did it, he spoke to BOTH at the same time and by doing that, Paul let us know that we're all in this thing together!. What can happen if we could do that simple thing and quit putting the men, the patriarchs of the home, down like the WORLD does? We can see wives respecting their husbands more and husbands loving their wives more and we can see LESS temptation happening in our churches. Just by simply doing it the Bible way, we can see a lot less homes and lives destroyed.

 

[Jim_Alaska]

18 minutes ago, heartstrings said:

Individuals. ( James 1:14)

But the church can put safeguards in place. First admit that all men (and women) are sexual beings. Stop isolating pastors and preachers from the congregation by considering them to be "God's annointed"(because all saved individuals are anointed)and quit fearing to question them or hold them accountable. Trust no man. Let all pastors, preachers and any other church leaders know this and make it known publicly that you require leaders to have someone with them at all times when with a member of the opposite sex. And, really, stop the "counseling" stuff with females. If a female needs counseling, set her up to meet with a Godly older woman (Titus 2:3-5)

Safeguards such as these should be taught as part of the normal teaching routine of our churches. This teaching is not novel or new, it is part of proper Bible study. Pastors that neglect to preach and teach things of this nature are not preaching the whole Word of God.

I remember as a young Christian learning this and making it a part of my belief system on a personal scale. I was taught that this kind of behavior on the part of both men and women was paramount and never to be neglected. It is not just for church staff, but should be practiced by all Christians, both male and female.

I do know that this kind of thing is not always convenient and can be cumbersome at times. But it really doesn't take much effort to ask another church member to be present when we are brought into a situation were we might have to be alone with either someone of the opposite sex or children, including teens.

Also this kind of safeguard should not be confined to church buildings and church members. It is vitally important that this be a prerequisite for witnessing door to door. Going out two by two is Scriptural by Biblical example. We never know who is going to answer the door and it can be dangerous, both morally as well as personally if we are alone in situations such as this.

This should come  naturally to church members, we should not even have to give it conscious thought, it should be an automatic response to situations that could have any tendency to bring reproach on our testimony or person.

[heartstrings]

Yes, I was taught this soon after I was saved 32 years ago, but it doesn't hurt to remind us all from time to time. I remember, when i had a bus ministry, always having my wife with me. There was one time, when a woman wanted me to take her home during service, so I had someone else ride with us. When I do VBS, I always make certain another adult is with me when I'm with the kids. And it's not that I have any proclivities for kids, it's just that it doesn't look good and you never want to leave the door open for an accusation or doubt in anyone's mind. My Wife an I are sometimes scheduled to keep the nursery and I do the same there. I was once in a Sunday School room and everyone walked out for a few minutes, leaving me alone with a young woman; I got up and walked out too. Of course this is not jist for pastors and other leaders. But the point is, no adult(male or female) should be alone with the opposite sex or with other people's kids.

[1Timothy115]

On ‎5‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 8:13 PM, Jim_Alaska said:

What would be right is to address the allegations and if needed apologize. 

We probably all remember Jimmy Swaggart's apology on TV. I don't agree with the Churches of God but, I don't believe it was helpful for any ministry. 

I missed the video but, Satan and his hoard of demons are attacking more fervently every day; he is after every testimony and every testifier. It is difficult for men, women, and children as the Day of Christs return draws nearer. In this flesh we all know we must be careful lest we fall. 

 

Edited May 25, 2018 by 1Timothy115
Add more information.

[1Timothy115]

On ‎5‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 11:57 AM, heartstrings said:

Not saying this was the case here, but how does a regular diet of teaching that the men/husbands in the church are not measuring up and not "leading the home" affect women of the church? If they're hearing things like "if you would lead, your wife would follow".  I mean, the only real leader must be the pastor if the "pew warmer" men are failing. And apparently, some women are attracted to such strong spiritual men who "have it all together". Where, in the Bible, does it say that the husband is to be the "leader" anyway? And this thing about "counseling women"; where is that in the Bible? I do find things like "the elder women teaching the younger" etc. Why aren't the older women doing this? What about making it a practice to never allow yourself to be in a compromising or questionable situation by NEVER being alone with another woman, teenager etc. besides your wife, daughter, mother or grandma?

Some of the points you mention above never get stale. I think it would be worthwhile to appear in another thread for Bible inputs, discussion and questions. Such as...home leadership & responsibilities, and best practice for counseling, etc. These things need to be refreshed frequently. We are in the cross hairs of Satan and his demons every minute. I've heard some things from Paul's epistles on these subjects but would love to hear them again. I hope you start a thread.

[Jamie Lynn]

I grew up with Cameron and sadly attended the Baptist School his parents led for some time. This does not surprise many of us, due to the sick and twisted idealogies we were subjected to as children. 

[Pastor Matt]

10 hours ago, Jamie Lynn said:

I grew up with Cameron and sadly attended the Baptist School his parents led for some time. This does not surprise many of us, due to the sick and twisted idealogies we were subjected to as children. 

Hello Jamie and welcome to Online Baptist. I'm curious to what these sick and twisted ideologies were. I'm only asking so that I can get a clearer understanding on the thinking of people who get involved in this.

[heartstrings]

On 5/24/2018 at 8:08 PM, 1Timothy115 said:

Some of the points you mention above never get stale. I think it would be worthwhile to appear in another thread for Bible inputs, discussion and questions. Such as...home leadership & responsibilities, and best practice for counseling, etc. These things need to be refreshed frequently. We are in the cross hairs of Satan and his demons every minute. I've heard some things from Paul's epistles on these subjects but would love to hear them again. I hope you start a thread.

Sounds good, Brother, where do you think it should be started?

[1Timothy115]

On ‎5‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 6:10 PM, heartstrings said:

Sounds good, Brother, where do you think it should be started?

We don't have a 'Bible-based Behavior' forum. what about 'Christian Living' forum under 'Relationships and Family? Maybe the Questions For Baptists or The Lounge?

[DaveW]

On ‎5‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 11:57 PM, heartstrings said:

Where, in the Bible, does it say that the husband is to be the "leader" anyway?

Now, don't get me wrong here - I am not disagreeing with your general points, but to answer this specific question:

1Ti 3:4-5  One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; (5)  (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
 

I know this is specific to Pastors, but it makes that point that a man should "rule his house well". This is talking about rank and position - the Man is the "ruler" or "leader" of his house.

Before I get a big backlash and a pummelling from all and sundry, this general issue is one that I have long been concerned about - so many men do not how to "rule their house well" in a genuinely Biblical sense.

It is not for a man to a totalitarian ruler, and a man certainly doesn't rule alone - He is after all part of "one flesh" formed at marriage.

And a man should always remember that he rules his house in (Biblical) love.

And I also agree with you that there seems to be a huge "Man bashing" sentiment going around in certain preaching. 

Without a doubt, there needs to be BIBLICAL teaching on marriage relationships and family relationships, and much of what is passed off as "Family teaching" and "Marriage teaching" is not very biblical at all.