Administrators Jim_Alaska Posted April 30, 2021 Administrators Share Posted April 30, 2021 So, you would answer a strangers specific question about being either a Calvinist or Arminian by saying you are: In Christ Jesus, Born Again By The Will of The Father in Heaven, As Written, I am a New Creation. A bit rude don't you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bouncing Bill Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 I was predestined to believe in freewill. heartstrings and Hugh_Flower 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members heartstrings Posted April 30, 2021 Members Share Posted April 30, 2021 (edited) "Election" doesn't mean what they think it means: Even Jesus and angels are "elect". "Predestination" doesn't mean what they think either. The Gospel is NOT complicated like that, as Calvinism tries to make it. "But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ." the Bible says. And when a man gets saved, he's saved for ever because he's been sealed, born of the Spirit, born of God, a "son of God", passed from death unto life, shall not come into condemnation, and indwelled with the Holy Ghost. So, I tell people that BOTH Calvinism and Arminianism is in error. I am neither. Edited April 30, 2021 by heartstrings BrotherTony 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BrotherTony Posted April 30, 2021 Members Share Posted April 30, 2021 On 2/2/2018 at 6:51 PM, PastorMatt said: I find it alarming that too many people think that there are only two choices here. Neither Calvinism or Arminianism lines up with Scripture. I'm glad I read some of this thread, PastorMatt. I usually answer with Biblicist myself. I don't reveal whether or not I agree with TULIP, etc. It's irrelevant what I as a person think. The only thing that matters is what the Bible teaches, and though both "sides" can back up their stances with Scripture, they don't settle the question! I guess that's why God only reveals what we truly need to know about living the Christian life! Pastor Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Martyr_4_FutureJoy Posted May 2, 2021 Members Share Posted May 2, 2021 (edited) On 4/29/2021 at 8:22 PM, Jim_Alaska said: A bit rude don't you think? On 4/30/2021 at 4:23 PM, BrotherTony said: Neither Calvinism or Arminianism lines up with Scripture. So those who are a new creation agree. On 4/30/2021 at 3:28 AM, Bouncing Bill said: Preach Christ, not social issues. If they come to Christ he will work on their social issue beliefs. On 4/28/2021 at 9:34 PM, 1Timothy115 said: The reason why men do not look to the Church today is that she has destroyed her own influence by compromise. ~ G. Campbell Morgan (B. 1863- D. 1945) Edited May 2, 2021 by jeff_student_of_Jesus Just saw. By sheer Grace from the Father. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ukulelemike Posted May 4, 2021 Moderators Share Posted May 4, 2021 Anyone else ever notice the word "Sovereign" isn't in scripture? Yet the word is bandied about like crazy by Calvinists. Pastor Matt, BrotherTony and Jim_Alaska 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Pastor Matt Posted May 5, 2021 Author Administrators Share Posted May 5, 2021 13 hours ago, Ukulelemike said: Anyone else ever notice the word "Sovereign" isn't in scripture? Yet the word is bandied about like crazy by Calvinists. I never thought of that before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pastor Scott Markle Posted May 5, 2021 Members Share Posted May 5, 2021 15 hours ago, Ukulelemike said: Anyone else ever notice the word "Sovereign" isn't in scripture? Yet the word is bandied about like crazy by Calvinists. Yet the English word "sovereign" simply means "1. above or superior to all others; chief; greatest; supreme: 2. supreme in power, rank, or authority: 3. of or holding the position of ruler; royal; reigning." Certainly that definition DOES apply to the Lord our God, the MOST HIGH God, the Ruler of heaven and earth. Furthermore, consider that we are quite comfortable using the term "trinity" although it is not specifically found in the King James translation, as well as other terms, such as "rapture," etc. If a term is a legitimate doctrinal term, used in accord with Biblical doctrine and definition, I see no problem with its usage in doctrinal discussions. Iconoclast, Jim_Alaska and BrotherTony 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BrotherTony Posted May 5, 2021 Members Share Posted May 5, 2021 15 hours ago, Ukulelemike said: Anyone else ever notice the word "Sovereign" isn't in scripture? Yet the word is bandied about like crazy by Calvinists. I have notice that. I see a lot of Calvinist use that on a regular basis. Those who are in the Arminian camp also use it, but say that God's sovereignty and his allowance of "free will" doesn't in any way negate the fact that he IS sovereign. The debate still rages on after 400 years! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members heartstrings Posted May 5, 2021 Members Share Posted May 5, 2021 (edited) Calvinists regularly use the term "sovereignty" when arguing that God controls our will pertaining to salvation. Because of that I refuse to use the term at all and I don't have to because neither the term, nor the doctrine associated with it, are found in the King James Bible. Edited May 5, 2021 by heartstrings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ukulelemike Posted May 5, 2021 Moderators Share Posted May 5, 2021 8 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said: Yet the English word "sovereign" simply means "1. above or superior to all others; chief; greatest; supreme: 2. supreme in power, rank, or authority: 3. of or holding the position of ruler; royal; reigning." Certainly that definition DOES apply to the Lord our God, the MOST HIGH God, the Ruler of heaven and earth. Furthermore, consider that we are quite comfortable using the term "trinity" although it is not specifically found in the King James translation, as well as other terms, such as "rapture," etc. If a term is a legitimate doctrinal term, used in accord with Biblical doctrine and definition, I see no problem with its usage in doctrinal discussions. Very true-words that aren't there, yet the idea of the word is present. I agree that God's sovereignty is present in scripture, but I also realize that in that sovereignty, He allows His creatures to choose to receive or reject His offer of grace. Trinity, I generally don't use-rather I use the term "godhead'. Rapture, I use sometimes, but i also just call it God taking His people out. BrotherTony 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Martyr_4_FutureJoy Posted July 24, 2021 Members Share Posted July 24, 2021 On 5/4/2021 at 4:45 PM, Ukulelemike said: Anyone else ever notice the word "Sovereign" isn't in scripture? Yet the word is bandied about like crazy by Calvinists. I did not notice before. Yet the word, as many others are, is bandied about by ... many groups? Not just one group. That's why there are so many different and differing groups, most being wrong. Since around 312a.d. , the influence of babylon religion , Greek thinking and way of life, greed, and so on, has infiltrated christendom. "The reason why men do not look to the Church today is that she has destroyed her own influence by compromise. ~ G. Campbell Morgan (B. 1863- D. 1945)" Still, concerning Sovereignty , even though it is grossly misused by Calvinists and other groups, this does not mean it is always misused, right? Just like other words: church, rapture, trinity, communion, and so on. The ideas when begun in babylon religions, are accepted too often in compromised christendom. When anyone turns to the Creator, away from sin, and starts to learn from Him, from His Word directly, as He is Pleased to Reveal, they fight a battle against all the misuse, all the previous learning , all the previous things they thought once were truth, as they learn the truth from God's Word. Becoming like little children, starting with a clean slate before God, (His Doing , not ours), we righteously covet the pure milk of God's Word and rejoice in Him. How to answer C or A ? Simply from the milk of God's Word: When His Word is used correctly, it is good. When it is used wrongly, it is not good. Trust God to Reveal what is Right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ukulelemike Posted July 26, 2021 Moderators Share Posted July 26, 2021 On 7/24/2021 at 3:47 AM, jeff_student_of_Jesus said: I did not notice before. Yet the word, as many others are, is bandied about by ... many groups? Not just one group. That's why there are so many different and differing groups, most being wrong. Since around 312a.d. , the influence of babylon religion , Greek thinking and way of life, greed, and so on, has infiltrated christendom. "The reason why men do not look to the Church today is that she has destroyed her own influence by compromise. ~ G. Campbell Morgan (B. 1863- D. 1945)" Still, concerning Sovereignty , even though it is grossly misused by Calvinists and other groups, this does not mean it is always misused, right? Just like other words: church, rapture, trinity, communion, and so on. The ideas when begun in babylon religions, are accepted too often in compromised christendom. When anyone turns to the Creator, away from sin, and starts to learn from Him, from His Word directly, as He is Pleased to Reveal, they fight a battle against all the misuse, all the previous learning , all the previous things they thought once were truth, as they learn the truth from God's Word. Becoming like little children, starting with a clean slate before God, (His Doing , not ours), we righteously covet the pure milk of God's Word and rejoice in Him. How to answer C or A ? Simply from the milk of God's Word: When His Word is used correctly, it is good. When it is used wrongly, it is not good. Trust God to Reveal what is Right. Yes, lots of words not in scripture, like sovereign, yet the idea is present. Church, of course, is in there, but it is translated from a word meaning assembly, though church is fine, so long as we understand it to mean what it properly does. Other terms I generally don't use, like trinity, I prefer godhead, which is the same thing, but the biblical term, or Lord's Supper, rather than communion, etc. They aren't necessarily bad words, just not found in scripture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Martyr_4_FutureJoy Posted July 26, 2021 Members Share Posted July 26, 2021 4 hours ago, Ukulelemike said: Yes, lots of words not in scripture, like sovereign, yet the idea is present. Church, of course, is in there, but it is translated from a word meaning assembly, though church is fine, so long as we understand it to mean what it properly does. Other terms I generally don't use, like trinity, I prefer godhead, which is the same thing, but the biblical term, or Lord's Supper, rather than communion, etc. They aren't necessarily bad words, just not found in scripture. Do you remember where it is written (I think it is in Scripture, but it might have been a comment) that Torah (Scripture) is good when it is used correctly, as God Means ; Scripture is not good , not helpful nor lawful, when it is mis-used or used incorrectly, not as God Means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ukulelemike Posted July 26, 2021 Moderators Share Posted July 26, 2021 3 hours ago, jeff_student_of_Jesus said: Do you remember where it is written (I think it is in Scripture, but it might have been a comment) that Torah (Scripture) is good when it is used correctly, as God Means ; Scripture is not good , not helpful nor lawful, when it is mis-used or used incorrectly, not as God Means. "But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust." 1Tim 1:8-11 Martyr_4_FutureJoy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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