Saved in 3 tenses?

[Pastor Scott Markle]

On ‎9‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 4:06 PM, Roselove said:

Okay, i think this might make sense. I see what you're saying. 

What do you think of the passages that were concerning me? I really felt like those seemed to explicitly say that you can fall from not enduring through faith in Jesus. I very strongly believed that.

Indeed, I wish to focus upon John 15:1-6 next, if that is acceptable.

However, before we move, I wish to apply the truths that we have gleaned from John 6:35-40 unto your personal case --

Have you yourself, "Roselove," come unto God the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, through faith as personal Savior?

If you have, then:

1.  God the Father gave you unto God the Son.
2.  God the Son did not and will not cast you out.
3.  God the Father has assigned God the Son not to lose you.
4.  God the Son will certainly NOT fail God the Father in this assignment.
5.  God the Father has assigned God the Son to give you everlasting life.
6.  God the Son has indeed given you everlasting life.
7.  God the Father has assigned God the Son to raise you up at the last day.
8.  God the Son will certainly raise you up at the last day.

Your assurance of security is founded upon and rooted in the authority, power, and faithfulness of God the Father and God the Son.  Indeed, in relation to God the Son's faithfulness, your assurance of security is not only founded upon and rooted in His faithfulness unto you, but even more so is founded upon and rooted in God the Son's faithfulness unto God the Father.

[Roselove]

16 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Indeed, I wish to focus upon John 15:1-6 next, if that is acceptable.

However, before we move, I wish to apply the truths that we have gleaned from John 6:35-40 unto your personal case --

Have you yourself, "Roselove," come unto God the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, through faith as personal Savior?

If you have, then:

1.  God the Father gave you unto God the Son.
2.  God the Son did not and will not cast you out.
3.  God the Father has assigned God the Son not to lose you.
4.  God the Son will certainly NOT fail God the Father in this assignment.
5.  God the Father has assigned God the Son to give you everlasting life.
6.  God the Son has indeed given you everlasting life.
7.  God the Father has assigned God the Son to raise you up at the last day.
8.  God the Son will certainly raise you up at the last day.

Your assurance of security is founded upon and rooted in the authority, power, and faithfulness of God the Father and God the Son.  Indeed, in relation to God the Son's faithfulness, your assurance of security is not only founded upon and rooted in His faithfulness unto you, but even more so is founded upon and rooted in God the Son's faithfulness unto God the Father.

That is, encouraging to hear.

My problem are that, I've studied a lot of things about each oneof those points, that they said they put into the true context, which seems to not teach security, though. It's stuff that seems to make sense, i think.  

All of those points, i read were about the disciples in that context. This is one of the people's interpretation, I'll post the link, below. Do you know what he's talking about? 

https://edgarsreflections.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/what-did-jesus-mean-by-“i-will-lose-nothing”-in-john-639/amp/

[Pastor Scott Markle]

1 hour ago, Roselove said:

That is, encouraging to hear.

My problem are that, I've studied a lot of things about each oneof those points, that they said they put into the true context, which seems to not teach security, though. It's stuff that seems to make sense, i think.  

All of those points, i read were about the disciples in that context. This is one of the people's interpretation, I'll post the link, below. Do you know what he's talking about? 

https://edgarsreflections.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/what-did-jesus-mean-by-“i-will-lose-nothing”-in-john-639/amp/

Sister Rose,

Having read through the article, I certainly understand why you are confused and uncertain.  Thus I believe that BEFORE we move to John 15:1-6, we should examine the points of this article concerning the teaching of John 6:35-40.  Would you agree?

[Roselove]

1 hour ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Sister Rose,

Having read through the article, I certainly understand why you are confused and uncertain.  Thus I believe that BEFORE we move to John 15:1-6, we should examine the points of this article concerning the teaching of John 6:35-40.  Would you agree?

Yes! :) 

[Pastor Scott Markle]

18 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Sister Rose,

Having read through the article, I certainly understand why you are confused and uncertain.  Thus I believe that BEFORE we move to John 15:1-6, we should examine the points of this article concerning the teaching of John 6:35-40.  Would you agree?

17 hours ago, Roselove said:

Yes! :) 

In the article that you referenced (as presented below) . . .

20 hours ago, Roselove said:

https://edgarsreflections.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/what-did-jesus-mean-by-“i-will-lose-nothing”-in-john-639/amp/

. . . the author of the article argued for four primary points in order to challenge the common understanding for John 6:39.  These three points are as follows:

1.  Those individuals whom God the Father gave unto God the Son do not include all New Testament believers, but only included the Jewish believers during Christ's public ministry.
2.  God the Father's assignment unto God the Son not to lose any of these individuals does not refer unto spiritual security, but refers unto physical protection.
3.  God the Son's promise to raise these individuals up at the last day does not refer unto the future resurrection of righteousness, but indicates that He would keep them physically alive until some future time in the coming years.

The author began with the contextual background for the discussion of our Lord with the people through John 6:35-65.  Therefore, I shall do the same.  

1.  In John 6:1-13 God's Word reveals the historical account concerning the feeding of the five thousand.  
2.  In John 6:14-15 God's Word reveals that Jesus departed alone into the mountains away from the multitudes - specifically because He perceived that due to the miracle of food, they would attempt to take Him by force in order to make Him their king.
3.  In John 6:16-21 God's Word reveals that at evening the disciples traveled by ship over the sea unto Capernaum, but encountered a storn - wherein Jesus walked on the sea unto them.
4.  In John 6:22-25 God's Word reveals that on the next morning when the people who had experienced the miracle of food did not find Jesus, they also took shipping unto Capernaum, specifically looking for Jesus.
5.  In John 6:26 God's Word reveals that Jesus rebuked these individuals for seeking Him, not because of His miraculous power, but because they had been filled with free food, thus revealing that their motivation was focused upon physical food and physical matters.
6.  In John 6:27 God's Word reveals that Jesus instructed these individuals not to labor for physical food, but to focus their attention upon the food of everlasting life that they might receive from the "Son of man."
7.  In John 6:28 God's Word reveals that these individuals asked Jesus a question concerning what they might do, in order that they might "work the works [plural] of God."  (Note: It is significant and worthy of notice that they used the plural word "works" in their question.) 
8.  In John 6:29 God's Word reveals that Jesus gave answer unto these individuals, "This is the work [singular] of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."  (Note:  It is worthy of notice that Jesus only set one, singular requirement before them from God -- To believe on God the Son, whom God the Father had sent unto them.)
9.  In John 6:30-31 God's Word reveals that these individuals asked Jesus for a miraculous sign in order that they might believe Him, and that they made reference unto the Old Testament miracle of manna in Moses' day, indicating that they were still focused upon physical food and upon the miracle of food.
10.  In John 6:32-33 God's Word reveals that Jesus gave answer unto these individuals, indicating that God, not Moses, was the authority and power in the Old Testament miracle of manna (physical food), and indicating that God the Father was now giving unto them "the true bread from heaven" (spiritual food), the Messiah Himself, who came down from heaven and who gives life unto the world.  (Note:  It is worthy of notice that Jesus did not simply reference the Jews in relation to this gift of life, but referenced the entire world.)

This is the contextual background for the discussion in John 6:35-65.  Let us take note of some thematic points:

1.  Food, with a specific focus upon bread, is a theme that runs throughout this context.  For this reason Jesus used the metaphor of bread (referring unto Himself as the Bread of Life) and of eating and drinking that bread throughout the discussion of John 6:35-65.
2.  The people were focused upon the matter of PHYSICAL food; whereas Jesus sought to refocus their attention upon SPIRITUAL matters.
3.  The particular spiritual matter upon which Jesus sought to focus their attention was to believe on Him.

Sister Rose, are you following this contextual information thus far; or do you have any questions about this contextual information?

Edited September 26, 2017 by Pastor Scott Markle

[Jordan Kurecki]

On 9/24/2017 at 1:20 PM, Roselove said:

He says "it" because it's a branch He's talking about, it's an analogy. I don't see how it couldn't just mean, exactly what it appears to mean. This is the 4th version I've read on this parable. Every verse that people that believe in absolute security try to explain, everyone seems to have a totally different answer. The other side never seems to contradict each other. They all say the same thing about the verses, and they take it at face value, in the context.

 I really wasn't trying to sound provoking or anything, I'm really sorry if it comes across like that. I hope you, understand.

explain to me how you know the fire referred to in John 15 is hell?

Please explain to me why you ignore the multiple passages in the bible that teach eternal security and assume the fire in John 15 means hell, when my earlier post gives you examples in the word of God where fire is meant?

Can you please explain to me in Matthew 7 why Jesus says "I NEVER knew you" to those who are cast into hell. Why does he say NEVER and instead of "I once knew you and you fell away"?

According to 1st John 5:13 we can know that we have eternal life... how can you know that you have eternal life if it can be lost? How can you truly KNOW?

You say they never seem to contradict eachother... that doesn't prove anything..

Ask a Mormon and a Jehovah's witness about passages that teach the Deity of Christ and I am sure that they will probably give the same explanations to deny what those verses teach... doesn't make their explanation correct.

John 15 cannot mean that believers can be cast into hell fire because there are numerous other passages that clearly teach otherwise.

[Roselove]

14 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

In the article that you referenced (as presented below) . . .

. . . the author of the article argued for four primary points in order to challenge the common understanding for John 6:39.  These three points are as follows:

1.  Those individuals whom God the Father gave unto God the Son do not include all New Testament believers, but only included the Jewish believers during Christ's public ministry.
2.  God the Father's assignment to God the Son not lose any of these individuals does not refer unto spiritual security, but refers unto physical protection.
3.  God the Son's promise to raise these individual up at the last day does not refer unto the future resurrection of righteousness, but indicates that He would keep them physical alive until some future time in the coming years.

The author began with the contextual background for the discussion of our Lord with the people through John 6:35-65.  Therefore, I shall do the same.  

1.  In John 6:1-13 God's Word reveals the historical account concerning the feeding of the five thousand.  
2.  In John 6:14-15 God's Word reveals that Jesus departed alone into the mountains away from the multitudes - specifically because He perceived that due to the miracle of food, they would attempt to take Him by force in order to make Him their king.
3.  In John 6:16-21 God's Word reveals that at evening the disciples traveled by ship over the sea unto Capernaum, but encountered a storn - wherein Jesus walked on the sea unto them.
4.  In John 6:22-25 God's Word reveals that on the next morning when the people who had experienced the miracle of food did not find Jesus, they also took shipping unto Capernaum, specifically looking for Jesus.
5.  In John 6:26 God's Word reveals that Jesus rebuked these individuals for seeking Him, not because of His miraculous power, but because they had been filled with free food, thus revealing that their motivation was focused upon physical food and physical food.
6.  In John 6:27 God's Word reveals that Jesus instructed these individuals not to labor for physical food, but to focus their attention upon the food of everlasting life that they might receive from the "Son of man."
7.  In John 6:28 God's Word reveals that these individuals asked Jesus a question concerning what they might do, in order that they might "work the works [plural] of God."  (Note: Taking notice of the plural word "works" herein is significant) 
8.  In John 6:29 God's Word reveals that Jesus gave answer unto these individuals, "This is the work [singular] of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."  (Note:  It is worthy of notice that Jesus only set one, singular requirement before them from God -- To believe on God the Son, whom God the Father had sent unto them.)
9.  In John 6:30-31 God's Word reveals that these individual asked Jesus for a miraculous sign in order that they might believe Him, and that they made reference unto the Old Testament miracle of manna in Moses' day, indicating that they were still focused upon physical food and upon the miracle of food.
10.  In John 6:32-33 God's Word reveals that Jesus gave answer unto these individuals, indicating that God, not Moses, was the authority and power in the Old Testament miracle of manna (physical food), and indicating that God the Father was now giving unto them "the true bread from heaven" (spiritual food), the Messiah Himself, who came down from heaven and who gives life unto the world.  (Note:  It is worthy of notice that Jesus did not simply reference the Jews in relation to this gift of life, but referenced the entire world.)

This is the contextual background for the discussion in John 6:35-65.  Let us take note of some thematic points:

1.  Food, with a specific focus upon bread, is a theme that runs through this context.  For this reason Jesus used the metaphor of bread (referring unto Himself as the Bread of Life) and of eating and drinking that bread throughout the discussion of John 6:35-65.
2.  The people were focused upon the matter of PHYSICAL food; whereas Jesus sought to refocus their attention upon SPIRITUAL matters.
3.  The particular spiritual matter upon which Jesus sought to focus their attention was to believe on Him.

Sister Rose, are you following this contextual information thus far; or do you have any questions about this contextual information?

I'm following, I believe.

[Roselove]

16 minutes ago, Jordan Kurecki said:

explain to me how you know the fire referred to in John 15 is hell?

Please explain to me why you ignore the multiple passages in the bible that teach eternal security and assume the fire in John 15 means hell, when my earlier post gives you examples in the word of God where fire is meant?

Can you please explain to me in Matthew 7 why Jesus says "I NEVER knew you" to those who are cast into hell. Why does he say NEVER and instead of "I once knew you and you fell away"?

According to 1st John 5:13 we can know that we have eternal life... how can you know that you have eternal life if it can be lost? How can you truly KNOW?

You say they never seem to contradict eachother... that doesn't prove anything..

Ask a Mormon and a Jehovah's witness about passages that teach the Deity of Christ and I am sure that they will probably give the same explanations to deny what those verses teach... doesn't make their explanation correct.

John 15 cannot mean that believers can be cast into hell fire because there are numerous other passages that clearly teach otherwise.

I understand what you're saying. It's complicated for me, I've heard so many trains of thought on this, all very convincing, of course.. I really do see what everyone here is saying, though. 

idk, both sides are very convincing, and they both use the Bible. I guess what has caused me the most issues is that, the other side has very strong arguments, plus things like throughout church history, when u look at passages in the greek, etc. really seem to line up with their beliefs. I know, the early church absolutely doesn't have final authority, I understand. I just think it's weird. I've done a lot of looking into it, i just can't find anything. 

I feel very deeply, that they are right.. I don't want to, but it's just how it appeares. Idk, I'm on here, I have strong beliefs, but I really want to not be able to lose it. I'm really just on here out of desperation, I guess. 

[Pastor Scott Markle]

8 minutes ago, Roselove said:

I feel very deeply, that they are right.. I don't want to, but it's just how it appeares. Idk, I'm on here, I have strong beliefs, but I really want to not be able to lose it. I'm really just on here out of desperation, I guess. 

Sister Rose,

I recognize that this comment was not directed in response unto me.  However, I wish to respond unto it nevertheless.  I do understand how confusing it can be when you hold unto the authority of God's Word with conviction, and when "the other side" appears to have the stronger Biblical argument (position).  Even so, I understand that your presence here is "a cry of desperation."  For this very reason, I have accepted (what I believe to be) the direction of God the Holy Spirit to help you as much as I am able with patient teaching.  I pray that you will stay with me throughout the process, and that you will be spiritually edified thereby.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Pastor Scott Markle

[Roselove]

31 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Sister Rose,

I recognize that this comment was not directed in response unto me.  However, I wish to respond unto it nevertheless.  I do understand how confusing it can be when you hold unto the authority of God's Word with conviction, and when "the other side" appears to have the stronger Biblical argument (position).  Even so, I understand that your presence here is "a cry of desperation."  For this very reason, I have accepted (what I believe to be) the direction of God the Holy Spirit to help you as much as I am able with patient teaching.  I pray that you will stay with me throughout the process, and that you will be spiritually edified thereby.

Thank you, I truly appreciate it. I'm very thankful for the help, I'm getting. I will definitely try to be strong and patient during, this time of help!

[Pastor Scott Markle]

In his introductory portion, the author of the article presented the following two paragraphs:
               (https://edgarsreflections.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/what-did-jesus-mean-by-“i-will-lose-nothing”-in-john-639/amp/)

Quote

First, let’s look at the background and the conversation between Jesus and the people prior to the statement of Jesus in John 6:39. The people searched Jesus and his disciples in Capernaum (v.24) not because they saw miraculous signs (which were intended for them to believe in him) but because they ate the loaves and had their fill (v.26). And so Jesus said to them that they should believe in the One the Father has sent (v.29). Then the people asked this question: “What miraculous sign then will you give that we may see it and believe you? What will you do? Our forefathers ate the manna in the desert; as it is written: ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’” In the process of this conversation Jesus said to them: “But as I told you, you have SEEN me and still you do not believe” (v.36).  Jesus told them that the miraculous sign that Moses gave (i.e., the “manna”) was not the true miraculous sign. Rather, he is the true miraculous sign because he is the true bread that came down from heaven, but even though they have seen him, still they did not believe him.

In interpreting this narrative passage, it is important to note that Jesus was addressing primarily the Jews of his days. He was speaking to those who were SEEING him at that time (v.36), and therefore, the Jews. This is important in interpreting John 6:39 since Jesus was telling those people who were seeing him, “all that He has given Me I [will] lose nothing.”  It should be understood that all those that the “Father has given” to Christ cannot be extended to the believers today (wait for my argument later below). In other words, the “given ones” were a group of people during that time which were given by the Father to Jesus. Now, am I saying that other people can no longer believe in Jesus apart from those that the Father has given him? Absolutely no. The idea that believing in Jesus is equal to being given by the Father to Jesus is not John’s idea here in his Gospel. The two are not one and the same. And this is what we are going to look at right now.

Within these paragraphs, the author places emphasis upon the reference unto "SEEING" the Lord Jesus Christ that is found in John 6:36.  The author does this in order to focus our attention upon the element of PHYSICALLY seeing the Lord Jesus Christ, in order that he may lay a foundation for the two primary points of his argument that the promise of security and the raising up at the last day are to be viewed with a PHYSICAL perspective, rather than a spiritual perspective.  I myself have three points of conflict with this presentation and emphasis:

In the first place --

It appears clearly to me that throughout our Lord's discussion in John 6:26-65, He intended to focus attention, not upon the physical, but upon the SPIRITUAL.  According to our Lord's rebuke in John 6:26 against those who sought for Him, it was the people who had a focus upon PHYSICAL food and PHYSICAL matters.  Yet the Lord Jesus Christ rebuked this focus upon the physical as a wrong focus.  Then in John 6:27 the Lord Jesus Christ attempted to redirect their focus upon SPIRITUAL matters.  Yet in John 6:31 the people made reference unto the miracle of manna in Moses' day, demonstrating that they were still focused wrongly upon physical food and physical matters.  Thus in John 6:32-33 the Lord Jesus Christ again attempted to redirect their focus upon SPIRITUAL matters.  Indeed, in John 6:35 the Lord Jesus Christ continued to emphasize the spiritual focus.  Then in John 6:36 the Lord Jesus Christ again rebuked these people for having seen Him physically, but for not believing on Him spiritually.  Yea, this appears to indicate that their physical focus had hindered them from making the correct spiritual decision of faith in Christ.  Furthermore, from John 6:60 we learn that at the end of the Lord Jesus Christ's discussion, some of His own disciples began to murmur against His teaching that individuals must eat His flesh and drink His blood in order to receive eternal life from Him.  It appears that they also had a more physical focus, and thus viewed this teaching as cannibalistic and wrong.  However, in John 6:36 the Lord Jesus Christ corrected them and clearly indicated that His teaching was not from a physical perspective, but from a SPIRITUAL perspective.  Therein He declared, "It is the spirit [spiritual focus] that quickeneth; the flesh [physical focus] profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit [spiritual focus], and they are life."   So then, for the author of the article to direct the focus of our attention upon physical matters appears to me for him to side with the people's wrong focus upon physical matters, rather than upon our Lord's true focus upon spiritual matters.

In the second place --

The emphasis of our Lord's message throughout John 6:26-65 does not at all appear to be upon the element of physically seeing him.  In fact, throughout this discussion He referenced seeing Him only twice. (See John 6:36, 40)  Whereas He referenced believing on Him six times. (See John 6:29, 35, 36, 40, 47, 64)  Furthermore, He referenced coming unto Him six times. (See John 6:35, 37, 44, 45, 65)  Finally, He referenced spiritually "partaking" (eating and drinking) of Him seven times. (See John 6:50, 51, 53, 54, 56, 57, 58)  So then, it does not at all appear through this emphasis that our Lord's emphasis was upon the element of physical sight as a requirement for the promises of the discussion, but was upon the elements of spiritually coming unto Him and partaking of Him through believing on Him.  Indeed, in John 20:29 our Lord Jesus Christ declared, after revealing Himself physically unto Thomas, "Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."  Let us then place our focus and emphasis upon that which our Lord Jesus Christ places His focus and emphasis.

In the third place --

While the author of the article focuses our attention upon the reference to physically seeing the Lord Jesus Christ in John 6:36, he does not make any reference unto the reference of seeing the Lord Jesus Christ in John 6:40.  This is significant specifically because of the relationship between these two references unto the element of "seeing."  First, in John 6:36 we find a more negative passage, wherein the Lord Jesus Christ rebuked those individuals who had seen Him, yet did not believe on Him.  Whereas, in John 6:40 we find a more positive passage, wherein the Lord Jesus Christ described an individual who both saw Him AND believed on Him.  Even so, John 6:40 would be the passage which reveals the correct importance of "seeing" the Lord Jesus Christ.  Second, when we consider the Greek construction of these two verses, we find that the Lord Jesus Christ employed two completely different Greek verbs for "see" in these two verses.  (Now, I know that the author of the article was willing to consider the Greek construction, since he spent so much time later in the article on the Greek verb "anistemi."  Therefore, I find it of significance that he neglected to mention anything about this difference in Greek verbs for "see.") 

So then, what IS the significance in this usage of different Greek verbs for "see"?  In John 6:36 the Lord Jesus Christ employed the Greek verb εωρακατε ("eorakate"), which is the perfect, active, indicative of ὁράω ("orao").  This Greek verb is a basic Greek word for "seeing" and can carry any of the various nuances thereof.  In John 6:40 the Lord Jesus Christ employed the Greek verb θεωρων ("theoron"), which is a present, active participle of θεωρέω ("theoreo").  This Greek verb is a synonym for ὁράω ("orao") and can also carry all of the various nuances of "seeing."  However, when θεωρων ("theoron") is employed in the same context as ὁράω ("orao"), it generally indicates an intensification to the act of "seeing."  As such, in the context of John 6:36 the usage of the Greek verb  ὁράω ("orao") would indicate a basic, physical "seeing" (observation) of the Lord Jesus Christ.  Yet it would not indicate anything deeper.  These people had indeed observed the Lord's ministry work and miraculous power.  They had sought for Him and had found Him physically.  Yet they did not believe on Him, for they did not "see" Him more deeply as the Savior.  On the other hand, in the context of John 6:40 the usage of the Greek verb θεωρέω ("theoreo") would indicate a deeper "seeing" of the Lord Jesus Christ, a "seeing" with definite interest and purpose, a "seeing" of spiritual recognition that He is indeed the Savior whom God the Father sent down from heaven.  In this context, this is not simply a physical observation at all.  Rather, in this context this is a spiritual recognition that moves an individual unto believing on the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior.  So then, the "seeing" of the believer in John 6:40 is not focused upon physical sight at all, but is focused upon spiritual recognition and understanding.  As such, the attempt by the author of the article to narrow the application of John 6:37-40 unto those disciples who actually saw the Lord Jesus Christ physically during His earthly ministry is invalid.  Indeed, the application of this passage is for any individual who "sees" with spiritual recognition and understanding that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Savior, and who is thereby motivated to believe on Him as personal Savior.

However, the author of the article presented much more in his argument.  Therefore, there is yet more for us to consider.

Sister Rose, are you following this information thus far; or do you have any questions about this information?

Edited September 28, 2017 by Pastor Scott Markle
grammar

[Roselove]

7 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

In his introductory portion, the author of the article presented the following two paragraphs:
               (https://edgarsreflections.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/what-did-jesus-mean-by-“i-will-lose-nothing”-in-john-639/amp/)

Within these paragraphs, the author places emphasis upon the reference unto "SEEING" the Lord Jesus Christ that is found in John 6:36.  The author does this in order to focus our attention upon the element of PHYSICALLY seeing the Lord Jesus Christ, in order that he may lay a foundation for the two primary points of his argument that the promise of security and the raising up at the last day are to be viewed with a PHYSICAL perspective, rather than a spiritual perspective.  I myself have three points of conflict with this presentation and emphasis:

In the first place --

It appears clearly to me that throughout our Lord's discussion in John 6:26-65, He intended to focus attention, not upon the physical, but upon the SPIRITUAL.  According to our Lord's rebuke in John 6:26 against those who sought for Him, it was the people who had a focus upon PHYSICAL food and PHYSICAL matters.  Yet the Lord Jesus Christ rebuked this focus upon the physical as a wrong focus.  Then in John 6:27 the Lord Jesus Christ attempted to redirect their focus upon SPIRITUAL matters.  Yet in John 6:31 the people made reference unto the miracle of manna in Moses' day, demonstrating that they were still focused wrongly upon physical food and physical matters.  Thus in John 6:32-33 the Lord Jesus Christ again attempted to redirect their focus upon SPIRITUAL matters.  Indeed, in John 6:35 the Lord Jesus Christ continued to emphasize the spiritual focus.  Then in John 6:36 the Lord Jesus Christ again rebuked these people for having seen Him physically, but for not believing on Him spiritually.  Yea, this appears to indicate that their physical focus had hindered them from making the correct spiritual decision of faith in Christ.  Furthermore, from John 6:60 we learn that at the end of the Lord Jesus Christ's discussion, some of His own disciples began to murmur against His teaching that individuals must eat His flesh and drink His blood in order to receive eternal life from Him.  It appears that they also had a more physical focus, and thus viewed this teaching as cannibalistic and wrong.  However, in John 6:36 the Lord Jesus Christ corrected them and clearly indicated that His teaching was not from a physical perspective, but from a SPIRITUAL perspective.  Therein He declared, "It is the spirit [spiritual focus] that quickeneth; the flesh [physical focus] profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit [spiritual focus], and they are life."   So then, for the author of the article to direct the focus of our attention upon physical matters appears to me for him to side with the people's wrong focus upon physical matters, rather than upon our Lord's true focus upon spiritual matters.

In the second place --

The emphasis of our Lord's message throughout John 6:26-65 does not at all appear to be upon the element of physically seeing him.  In fact, throughout this discussion He referenced seeing Him only twice. (See John 6:36, 40)  Whereas He referenced believing on Him six times. (See John 6:29, 35, 36, 40, 47, 64)  Furthermore, He referenced coming unto Him six times. (See John 6:35, 37, 44, 45, 65)  Finally, He referenced spiritually "partaking" (eating and drinking) of Him seven times. (See John 6:50, 51, 53, 54, 56, 57, 58)  So then, it does not at all appear through this emphasis that our Lord's emphasis was upon the element of physical sight as a requirement for the promises of the discussion, but was upon the elements of spiritually coming unto Him and partaking of Him through believing on Him.  Indeed, in John 20:29 our Lord Jesus Christ declared, after revealing Himself physically unto Thomas, "Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."  Let us then place our focus and emphasis upon that which our Lord Jesus Christ places His focus and emphasis.

In the third place --

While the author of the article focuses our attention upon the reference to physically seeing the Lord Jesus Christ in John 6:36, he does not make any reference unto the reference of seeing the Lord Jesus Christ in John 6:40.  This is significant specifically because of the relationship between these two references unto the element of "seeing."  First, in John 6:36 we find a more negative passage, wherein the Lord Jesus Christ rebuked those individuals who had seen Him, yet did not believe on Him.  Whereas, in John 6:40 we find a more positive passage, wherein the Lord Jesus Christ described an individual who both saw Him AND believed on Him.  Even so, John 6:40 would be the passage which reveals the correct importance of "seeing" the Lord Jesus Christ.  Second, when we consider the Greek construction of these two verses, we find that the Lord Jesus Christ employed two completely different Greek verbs for "see" in these two verses.  (Now, I know that the author of the article was willing to consider the Greek construction, since he spent so much time later in the article on the Greek verb "anistemi."  Therefore, I find it of significance that he neglected to mention anything about this difference in Greek verbs for "see.") 

So then, what IS the significance in this usage of different Greek verbs for "see"?  In John 6:36 the Lord Jesus Christ employed the Greek verb εωρακατε ("eorakate"), which is the perfect, active, indicative of ὁράω ("orao").  This Greek verb is a basic Greek word for "seeing" and can carry any of the various nuances thereof.  In John 6:40 the Lord Jesus Christ employed the Greek verb θεωρων ("theoron"), which is a present, active participle of θεωρέω ("theoreo").  This Greek verb is a synonym for ὁράω ("orao") and can also carry all of the various nuances of "seeing."  However, when θεωρων ("theoron") is employed in the same context as ὁράω ("orao"), it generally indicates an intensification to the act of "seeing."  As such, in the context of John 6:36 the usage of the Greek verb  ὁράω ("orao") would indicate a basic, physical "seeing" (observation) of the Lord Jesus Christ.  Yet it would not indicate anything deeper.  These people had indeed observed the Lord's ministry work and miraculous power.  They had sought for Him and had found Him physically.  Yet they did not believe on Him, for they did not "see" Him more deeply as the Savior.  On the other hand, in the context of John 6:40 the usage of the Greek verb θεωρέω ("theoreo") would indicate a deeper "seeing" of the Lord Jesus Christ, a "seeing" with definite interest and purpose, a "seeing" of spiritual recognition that He is indeed the Savior whom God the Father sent down from heaven.  In this context, this is not simply a physical observation at all.  Rather, in this context this is a spiritual recognition that moves an individual unto believing on the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior.  So then, the "seeing" of the believer in John 6:40 is not focused upon physical sight at all, but is focused upon spiritual recognition and understanding.  As such, the attempt by the author of the article to narrow the application of John 6:37-40 unto those disciples who actually saw the Lord Jesus Christ physically during His earthly ministry is invalid.  Indeed, the application of this passage is for any individual who "see"' with spiritual recognition and understanding that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Savior, and who is thereby motivated to believe on Him as personal Savior.

However, the author of the article presented much more in his argument.  Therefore, there is yet more for us to consider.

Sister Rose, are you following this information thus far; or do you have any questions about this information?

I'm following, those are a lot of good points! I am eager to hear the rest of your thoughts :) 

Its interesting, actually, because my husband and I were having a Bible study, last night and there was a passage where, Jesus was saying something to comfort His disciples. I have heard many say that when He makes promises to His disciples, it doesn't a lot of the time, include us. But, my husband made a very good point, he said, "Why would God put those things, in His word, if they weren't supposed to also be applied, to us? It wasn't to just show us that the apostles were right with God and loved by Him, but to show us that He wants the same things for us, too." It seems so obvious, but when he said that, it clicked. I remembered, also that the Bible says that there were many miracles that Jesus did, that aren't written, so obviously it would make sense of course, that everything in the Bible has a purpose, towards us. I know that all of the words, in the Bible, are spoken by, God!

Edited September 28, 2017 by Roselove

[Pastor Scott Markle]

14 hours ago, Roselove said:

Its interesting, actually, because my husband and I were having a Bible study, last night and there was a passage where, Jesus was saying something to comfort His disciples. I have heard many say that when He makes promises to His disciples, it doesn't a lot of the time, include us. But, my husband made a very good point, he said, "Why would God put those things, in His word, if they weren't supposed to also be applied, to us? It wasn't to just show us that the apostles were right with God and loved by Him, but to show us that He wants the same things for us, too." 

Your husband has certainly presented a truth of wisdom in this comment.  Yet this truth of wisdom must be tempered somewhat with a recognition that some passages of Scripture, especially in the Old Testament Scriptures, are indeed written unto specific audiences with specific application unto those specific audiences.  However, even in these cases there are spiritual principles for us to glean in application unto our own lives for both our learning and our admonition (as per the declaration of Romans 15:4 & 1 Corinthians 10:11).  On the other hand, those things that are written in the New Testament concerning the disciples carry a greater weight of principle for our lives and application unto our lives.  This is so because the Lord chose them to be the foundation for the New Testament church, with Himself being the Chief Cornerstone. (See Ephesians 2:19-22)  As such, the disciples served in many ways as representatives for all New Testament believers.
 

14 hours ago, Roselove said:

It seems so obvious, but when he said that, it clicked. I remembered, also that the Bible says that there were many miracles that Jesus did, that aren't written, so obviously it would make sense of course, that everything in the Bible has a purpose, towards us. I know that all of the words, in the Bible, are spoken by, God!

Indeed, the passage of Scripture unto which you refer above is also found in the gospel of John; and it reveals the Holy Spirit inspired purpose for the entire gospel of John.  It is John 20:30-31 -- "And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: but these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name."  Even so, we understand that the primary purpose for the gospel of John is three-fold: (1) To teach the doctrinal truth that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; (2) To teach the personal responsibility that we should believe on Jesus as the Christ, the Son of God; (3) To teach the divine promise that through faith in Christ we might have spiritual life through His name.  Indeed, the gospel of John was written primarily unto the audience of the lost world, in order to communicate the gospel of Christ unto lost sinners throughout the world in any place and at any time.  (Note:  This is yet another reason that I do not believe that the gospel message and gospel promise of John 6:26-65 should be narrowed in any way only unto those who could physically see the Lord Jesus Christ during His earthly ministry.)

Edited September 29, 2017 by Pastor Scott Markle

[Roselove]

34 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Your husband has certainly presented a truth of wisdom in this comment.  Yet this truth of wisdom must be tempered somewhat with a recognition that some passages of Scripture, especially in the Old Testament Scriptures, are indeed written unto specific audiences with specific application unto those specific audiences.  However, even in these cases there are spiritual principles for us to glean in application unto our own lives for both our learning and our admonition (as per the declaration of Romans 15:4 & 1 Corinthians 10:11).  On the other hand, those things that are written in the New Testament concerning the disciples carry a greater weight of principle for our lives and application unto our lives.  This is so because the Lord chose them to be the foundation for the New Testament church, with Himself being the Chief Cornerstone. (See Ephesians 2:19-22)  As such, the disciples served in many ways as representatives for all New Testament believers.
 

Indeed, the passage of Scripture unto which you refer above is also found in the gospel of John; and it reveals the Holy Spirit inspired purpose for the entire gospel of John.  It is John 20:30-31 -- "And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: but these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name."  Even so, we understand that the primary purpose for the gospel of John is three-fold: (1) To teach the doctrinal truth that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; (2) To teach the personal responsibility that we should believe on Jesus as the Christ, the Son of God; (3) To teach the divine promise that through faith in Christ we might have spiritual life through His name.  Indeed, the gospel of John was written primarily unto the audience of the lost world, in order to communicate the gospel of Christ unto lost sinners throughout the world in any place and at any time.  (Note:  This is yet another reason that I do not believe that the gospel message and gospel promise of John 6:26-65 should be narrowed in any way only unto those who could physically see the Lord Jesus Christ during His earthly ministry.)

True, we should remember that the Jews, especially, were a main focus, in the Bible. I see all of the things you are, saying. 

[Roselove]

I'm having a really hard time, today. I can't stop feeling distant from God. Idk why this won't end, sometimes. I've been going through this for so long. I made another post on here awhile back. I believed God wanted me to be alone, just talking to Him and reading His word until I put all of my trust and love towards Him, alone. I was in their for most of, 6 days. I keep feeling like He wants me to do it again. I feel like He wants to purge me and if I don't endure it, I won't produce fruit and He'll pull me off like a branch. Why is it that I've been helplessly going through this for several years, but I can't even withstand being alone for a little while to resolve this? About a week ago i did it again, but i only lasted a day. I missed my husband too much. I was miserable. I really believed that God wanted me in there to build my faith in Him, I believed I'd be punished if I didn't. Can you guys pray about this and tell me what God tells you? I know that other Christians praying for someone, can really help a person. My anxiety is deep. I can't always trust my thoughts. That's why I'd like you all if you would to ask God what He wants me to do, and please let me know. I would appreciate it.