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Saved in 3 tenses?

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Roselove
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What are you confused about? Is it the "three tenses"?

Examples:

[Past Tense]

(Titus 3:5) Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

[Present Tense]

(1 Corinthians 1:18) For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

[Future Tense]

(1 Corinthians 3:15) If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Past, present, and future. Our salvation encompasses all three. I was saved many years ago in the "past", I'm "presently" saved today, and I'll be saved in the "future". It's not three different salvations; it's three aspects of one salvation.

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1 hour ago, No Nicolaitans said:

What are you confused about? Is it the "three tenses"?

Examples:

[Past Tense]

(Titus 3:5) Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

[Present Tense]

(1 Corinthians 1:18) For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

[Future Tense]

(1 Corinthians 3:15) If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Past, present, and future. Our salvation encompasses all three. I was saved many years ago in the "past", I'm "presently" saved today, and I'll be saved in the "future". It's not three different salvations; it's three aspects of one salvation.

What you're saying makes sense. The thing this person (and others that go along this belief system) was saying is that, in the greek for instance, 1 corinthians 1:18 the verbage is saying "being saved". Like, it depends on us continuing to trust and obey Him, continuing faith, your final salvation will come. 

I didn't know what to think, really. I know that some say we will continue, but then they make it seem as though our final salvation is conditonal upon our continued faithfulness. It seems to be one of the things that has a fine line, between beliefs i guess. :/ 

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15 minutes ago, Roselove said:

What you're saying makes sense. The thing this person (and others that go along this belief system) was saying is that, in the greek for instance, 1 corinthians 1:18 the verbage is saying "being saved". Like, it depends on us continuing to trust and obey Him, continuing faith, your final salvation will come. 

I didn't know what to think, really. I know that some say we will continue, but then they make it seem as though our final salvation is conditonal upon our continued faithfulness. It seems to be one of the things that has a fine line, between beliefs i guess. :/ 

Well, I didn't want to say anything at first, but the person (and article) to whom you are referring to is using a different Bible and Greek text than the King James Version and the Greek text it was translated from. I quickly looked up the word in Greek, and the word is a different Greek word than what that gentleman quoted. He even admits that other translations translate the word differently. You have to be very careful of whom you read Roselove.

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12 minutes ago, No Nicolaitans said:

Well, I didn't want to say anything at first, but the person (and article) to whom you are referring to is using a different Bible and Greek text than the King James Version and the Greek text it was translated from. I quickly looked up the word in Greek, and the word is a different Greek word than what that gentleman quoted. He even admits that other translations translate the word differently. You have to be very careful of whom you read Roselove.

http://www.textusreceptusbibles.com/Strongs/46001018/G4982 

i looked on here, and it's the same word, though? I took screenshots of the word he said and the one in the textus receptus, and they are the same. I could be missing something, I'm not sure. :/

σωζομενοις <--pasted from textus receptus 

σωζομενοις<--pasted from person's webpage 

im a bit confused :/

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Well, all that I can go by is what I use. I'm no Greek scholar. Here's the word in my Bible program...as you can see, it's the same "number", but look at the Greek word in comparison to what you've posted...

G4982 σώζω sozo (sō'-zō) v.
to save, i.e. deliver or protect.
{literally or figuratively}
[from a primary sos (contraction for obsolete saos, “safe”)]
KJV: heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole

The author's Greek word from 1 Corinthians 15:2 - σωζεσθε

The author's Greek word from 1 Corinthians 1:18 - σωζομενοις

The Greek word from the Textus Receptus link that you provided of 1 Corinthians 1:18 - σωζομενοις (#4982)

The screenshot's Greek word from 1 Corinthians 1:18 - σωζομενοις (#4982)

The Greek word in my program from both 1 Corinthians 15:2 and 1 Corinthians 1:18 - σώζω (#4982)

All that I can say is...

The author has two different Greek words from the same single Greek word and "number"; which is 4982. The author, the screenshot, and the link provided show different Greek words than what mine shows. As I said, I'm no Greek scholar, and I just reference Greek occasionally. I'm wondering why the author has two different Greek words for the same Greek word...well, I think I know why, but I'll stop there.

I can't explain it to you any more than what I've shown Roselove.

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Brother McWhorter,

Actually, all of the examples provided ARE different forms of the SAME Greek verb.  The different forms simply indicate differences in tense, voice, mood, person, number, etc. (in the case of participles).

σωζεσθε -- present, passive, indicative, 2nd person, plural of σώζω

 σωζομενοις -- present, passive, participle, plural, dative, masculine of σώζω

Note: When referencing Strong's concordance of Hebrew and Greek words (in accord with Strong's numbering system), it must be understood that Strong's concordance does NOT provide all of the various forms of a particular word (as per tense, voice, mood, person, gender, number, case), but only provides the ROOT form of the word.

(By the way, how are you typing out words using actual Greek letters?  I would like to know that for future posting.)

Edited by Pastor Scott Markle
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20 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Brother McWhorter,

Actually, all of the examples provided ARE different forms of the SAME Greek verb.  The different forms simply indicate differences in tense, voice, mood, person, number, etc. (in the case of participles).

σωζεσθε -- present, passive, indicative, 2nd person, plural of σώζω

 σωζομενοις -- present, passive, participle, plural, dative, masculine of σώζω

Note: When referencing Strong's concordance of Hebrew and Greek words (in accord with Strong's numbering system), it must be understood that Strong's concordance does NOT provide all of the various forms of a particular word (as per tense, voice, mood, person, gender, number, case), but only provides the ROOT form of the word.

(By the way, how are you typing out words using actual Greek letters?  I would like to know that for future posting.)

Thanks Bro. Markle...I was kind of hoping you might chime in on this. :)

I was suspicious that it may have been the case as you described; however, since I haven't studied Greek, I wasn't about to try to "explain" something that I knew nothing about. LOL!

When I "type" a Greek word, I don't actually type it out. I just highlight it with my mouse cursor in my Bible program, then I copy and paste it here (or in my examples above...copy and paste the word from those websites).

I hope you're doing well friend.

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28 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Brother McWhorter,

Actually, all of the examples provided ARE different forms of the SAME Greek verb.  The different forms simply indicate differences in tense, voice, mood, person, number, etc. (in the case of participles).

σωζεσθε -- present, passive, indicative, 2nd person, plural of σώζω

 σωζομενοις -- present, passive, participle, plural, dative, masculine of σώζω

Note: When referencing Strong's concordance of Hebrew and Greek words (in accord with Strong's numbering system), it must be understood that Strong's concordance does NOT provide all of the various forms of a particular word (as per tense, voice, mood, person, gender, number, case), but only provides the ROOT form of the word.

(By the way, how are you typing out words using actual Greek letters?  I would like to know that for future posting.)

I'm a bit confused 

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Just now, No Nicolaitans said:

When I "type" a Greek word, I don't actually type it out. I just highlight it with my mouse cursor in my Bible program, then I copy and paste it here (or in my examples above...copy and paste the word from those websites).

Understood.  The "copy and paste" method (from your posting) is how I was able to post such in my posting. 

1 minute ago, No Nicolaitans said:

I hope you're doing well friend.

Doing quite well.  Just been so busy this whole year that I have very, very little time for Online Baptist posting.  However, I do continue to read and follow those discussion that "catch my eye."

(In this particular case, I received a private request for help on this matter.  As such, I believe that the Lord would have me to make the time to provide what help that I am able.)

Just now, Roselove said:

I'm a bit confused 

Sister Rose,

About what in particular are you confused?

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1 minute ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Understood.  The "copy and paste" method (from your posting) is how I was able to post such in my posting. 

Doing quite well.  Just been so busy this whole year that I have very, very little time for Online Baptist posting.  However, I do continue to read and follow those discussion that "catch my eye."

(In this particular case, I received a private request for help on this matter.  As such, I believe that the Lord would have me to make the time to provide what help that I am able.)

Excellent!

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Just now, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Understood.  The "copy and paste" method (from your posting) is how I was able to post such in my posting. 

Doing quite well.  Just been so busy this whole year that I have very, very little time for Online Baptist posting.  However, I do continue to read and follow those discussion that "catch my eye."

(In this particular case, I received a private request for help on this matter.  As such, I believe that the Lord would have me to make the time to provide what help that I am able.)

Sister Rose,

About what in particular are you confused?

Well, No Nicolations said that it's 2 different words, but you said it's the same word, i think? I think he was saying it that way, to further disprove the man who wrote the article? (Please correct me if I'm wrong, No nicolations), I wasn't sure really where both of your trains of thought lined up, I guess. I'm just trying to figure out how you all's view is different from the article writer's.

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Just now, Roselove said:

Well, No Nicolations said that it's 2 different words, but you said it's the same word, i think? I think he was saying it that way, to further disprove the man who wrote the article? (Please correct me if I'm wrong, No nicolations), I wasn't sure really where both of your trains of thought lined up, I guess. I'm just trying to figure out how you all's view is different from the article writer's.

Sister Rose,

Thank you for clarifying.  Yes, it does appear that Brother McWhorter was presenting his thoughts in order to "combat" the ideas of the article.  However, with a little understanding of Greek prefixes and suffixes, it is possible to recognize that the SAME Greek verb is being used (just with differences in tense, voice, mood, etc.).

Concerning the articles (for you did present two different articles), I intend to present some thoughts as we proceed (in response to your private request for help).  However, at present I am reading through your past threads concerning the matter of eternal security in order to acquire some context for your struggle.  As such, I would request patience, if I may.

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2 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Sister Rose,

Thank you for clarifying.  Yes, it does appear that Brother McWhorter was presenting his thoughts in order to "combat" the ideas of the article.  However, with a little understanding of Greek prefixes and suffixes, it is possible to recognize that the SAME Greek verb is being used (just with differences in tense, voice, mood, etc.).

Concerning the articles (for you did present two different articles), I intend to present some thoughts as we proceed (in response to your private request for help).  However, at present I am reading through your past threads concerning the matter of eternal security in order to acquire some context for your struggle.  As such, I would request patience, if I may.

I'm still a little ignorant to the greek and everything, so my comprehension of everyone's answers is still a bit hard to grasp, but I'm sure when we get further, it'll make more sense. And yes, I will be patient! :)

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14 minutes ago, Roselove said:

Well, No Nicolations said that it's 2 different words, but you said it's the same word, i think? I think he was saying it that way, to further disprove the man who wrote the article? (Please correct me if I'm wrong, No nicolations), I wasn't sure really where both of your trains of thought lined up, I guess. I'm just trying to figure out how you all's view is different from the article writer's.

 

7 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Sister Rose,

Thank you for clarifying.  Yes, it does appear that Brother McWhorter was presenting his thoughts in order to "combat" the ideas of the article.  However, with a little understanding of Greek prefixes and suffixes, it is possible to recognize that the SAME Greek verb is being used (just with differences in tense, voice, mood, etc.).

Concerning the articles (for you did present two different articles), I intend to present some thoughts as we proceed (in response to your private request for help).  However, at present I am reading through your past threads concerning the matter of eternal security in order to acquire some context for your struggle.  As such, I would request patience, if I may.

My apparent "combativeness" wasn't necessarily against the man himself, the article itself, or the ideas of the article; rather, it was against the Bible that he uses, and therefore; its underlying Greek text. As far as the general message underlying the article...I had no problem with that. I agree with being saved in "three tenses". I apologize for letting my rancor show in regards to a Bible version other than the King James. :99_muscle:

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8 minutes ago, No Nicolaitans said:

My apparent "combativeness" wasn't necessarily against the man himself, the article itself, or the ideas of the article; rather, it was against the Bible that he uses, and therefore; its underlying Greek text. As far as the general message underlying the article...I had no problem with that. I agree with being saved in "three tenses". I apologize for letting my rancor show in regards to a Bible version other than the King James. :99_muscle:

Thank you for your clarification, Brother McWhorter.  Indeed, the author DOES use a different English translation than the King James translation.  However, the Greek terms that he references are the SAME as in the Received Text (from which the King James translation was translated).

Note: I do NOT believe that an apology was necessary; for I do NOT believe that you did anything sinfully wrong.  On the other hand, I do believe that a clarification was necessary; and you have now provided such. 

Edited by Pastor Scott Markle
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By the way -- May I say that I do NOT AT ALL like the the "question" forum for such thread discussions, since postings can be moved through rating; and thereby the line of comment and response can become distorted.  (I wonder if this thread discussion could be moved to a different forum structure by one of the moderators.)

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16 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Thank you for your clarification, Brother McWhorter.  Indeed, the author DOES use a different English translation than the King James translation.  However, the Greek terms that he references are the SAME as in the Received Text (from which the King James translation was translated).

Note: I do NOT believe that an apology was necessary; for I do NOT believe that you did anything sinfully wrong.  On the other hand, I do believe that a clarification was necessary; and you have now provided such. 

Since the words the writer uses are the same as kjv, how is it that he's wrong about our security being conditional? That's where i was a bit confused. :4_6_2v:

I mean, in the way that he's trying to disprove it, that is.

(Sorry if this counts as impatience) :7_sweat_smile:

Edited by Roselove
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8 hours ago, No Nicolaitans said:

Well, all that I can go by is what I use. I'm no Greek scholar. Here's the word in my Bible program...as you can see, it's the same "number", but look at the Greek word in comparison to what you've posted...

G4982 σώζω sozo (sō'-zō) v.
to save, i.e. deliver or protect.
{literally or figuratively}
[from a primary sos (contraction for obsolete saos, “safe”)]
KJV: heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole

The author's Greek word from 1 Corinthians 15:2 - σωζεσθε

The author's Greek word from 1 Corinthians 1:18 - σωζομενοις

The Greek word from the Textus Receptus link that you provided of 1 Corinthians 1:18 - σωζομενοις (#4982)

The screenshot's Greek word from 1 Corinthians 1:18 - σωζομενοις (#4982)

The Greek word in my program from both 1 Corinthians 15:2 and 1 Corinthians 1:18 - σώζω (#4982)

All that I can say is...

The author has two different Greek words from the same single Greek word and "number"; which is 4982. The author, the screenshot, and the link provided show different Greek words than what mine shows. As I said, I'm no Greek scholar, and I just reference Greek occasionally. I'm wondering why the author has two different Greek words for the same Greek word...well, I think I know why, but I'll stop there.

I can't explain it to you any more than what I've shown Roselove.

Okay, I just installed the TR in my Bible program...

1 Corinthians 15:2, the word for saved is σωζεσθε

1 Corinthians 1:18, the word for saved is σωζομενοις

First, thanks to Bro. Markle for pointing out the situation with Strong's. I wasn't aware of that.

Second, I've learned a lesson from this, and though I originally tried to tread carefully, I realize that I need to tread even more carefully from this point forward. I will bow out of this conversation from here on out. Thank you Bro. Markle for addressing Roselove's concerns.

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