Inerrancy of Scripture - Bible believer or bible agnostic?

[Annie]

Apparently you have missed my repeated references to the Holy Spirit, who resides in me and guides me into all truth, just as Christ said He would.

What have I rejected as not being God's Word? I've repeatedly affirmed that I use and love the KJV! I believe it is God's Word. I don't believe it is a perfect preservation of all the words of God and only the words of God. God does not contradict Himself, and there are enough discrepancies in the KJV to indicate that it is not completely free from error. But on the whole, I believe it to be a reliable translation of the scripture. Scribal errors (that can be reconciled easily by checking other sources) in no way diminish my confidence that I have the preserved Word of God in my hands.

[Revelation3:20]

Out of curiosity, since you say she uses her human reasoning to determine where God's Word is, what do you use?

I have believed God by faith, not by human reasoning. Gods word is perfect wisdom and truth, men are not, as such they cannot always comprehend all of Gods word. What I understand and can explain from scripture I believe, what scripture I cannot understand or explain I also believe. Why? Because I know Christ, I know he is truth, I know I can trust him even when I can't understand. Without faith it is impossible to please him. I have tasted of Christ, I have seen enough of him to know I can trust him for the rest. The faith of a Christian isn't just a leap in the dark, it is hearing the voice of one whom your past experience as shown you that you can trust, perhaps hearing him calling you to do something you do not understand, and because you know you can trust him, you believe, you do as he says. That is faith.

Those who believe God based on human reasoning will fall from the truth in time, beacuse there will always be things we cannot understand.

[Annie]

True faith is based on what God has said, not upon what we imagine or reason. Where has God said that He would preserve all of His words in one language/volume?

[kevinmiller]

This is all fine and good but you said that she relies on her human reasoning to determine where God's WORD is. You just told me about your faith in God, not in His Word. But, my question was, what do you use to determine what is God's true Word? Hope that clarifies my question.

[Revelation3:20]

Apparently you have missed my repeated references to the Holy Spirit, who resides in me and guides me into all truth, just as Christ said He would.

Considering you are "led" to an entirely different view than others, someone is being guided by their flesh not the Spirit. The sword of the Spirit is the word of God, it is his greatest tool, those who reject scriptures, any of them, are rejecting God and are grieving the Spirit, they are not being led by the Spirit.

I don't believe it is a perfect preservation of all the words of God and only the words of God. God does not contradict Himself, and there are enough discrepancies in the KJV to indicate that it is not completely free from error. But on the whole, I believe it to be a reliable translation of the scripture. Scribal errors (that can be reconciled easily by checking other sources) in no way diminish my confidence that I have the preserved Word of God in my hands.

You made your position abundantly clear in a recent thread in the polls section. You made it clear that you believe that anything "important" is repeated multiple times in the scriptures, you stated that is the way we can know something is not a scribal error. Anything else would seem to be left up to personal opinion in your view. Of course this ignores just how many prophecies of Christ, found in only one passage, were regarded as definitive within the new testament. Hardly what would be expected if scripture could have contained scribal errors. It would not appear that either Christ or the apostles shared your view of scripture. Even so, I believe, from following that thread, that nothing will change your mind on this.

[Revelation3:20]

You just told me about your faith in God, not in His Word.

The two are one. You cannot believe God and reject his word. Jesus Christ makes that very clear.

[Guest Guest]

Nothing is missing from the KJV. It is preserved by God for English speaking people. No other English translation can be considered preserved as they have numerous errors in them.

Pastorj. :Bible:

[Annie]

Considering you are "led" to an entirely different view than others' date=' someone is being guided by their flesh not the Spirit. The sword of the Spirit is the word of God, it is his greatest tool, those who reject scriptures, any of them, are rejecting God and are grieving the Spirit, they are not being led by the Spirit.[/quote']

What scriptures have I rejected? At the risk of over-repeating myself, I LOVE THE KJV! I use it all the time. I help my kids memorize chapters from it. I have not rejected it.



Yet you have not so much as given a scriptural basis for the idea that God has to have preserved all of His words in one place. And here you demonstrate misunderstanding of my position. I don't think I ever said that we can "know" something is not a scribal error because it is repeated several times in scripture. However, the fact that God does repeat Himself many, many times in Scripture is confirmation of the fact that we can absolutely know both the way of salvation and how to live as Christians.



Personal opinion? How so? Apparently, you do not understand my position.

[kevinmiller]

Cleverly side-stepping the question...

Okay, I'll play along, you can't believe God and reject His Word. Now please tell me how you determine what is His true Word and what isn't.

[John81]

I know this wasn't directed at me and I can't speak for others but I would like to answer anyway. :Green For myself, the Holy Ghost specifically led me to the KJB. The leading was very clear. When I got hold of a KJB and put aside all others, the work of the Holy Ghost in my life was beyond amazing. The Scriptures were literally alive to me in no way they ever had been before. Where I had struggled to memorize Scripture previously, Scripture memorization became virtually easy. My spiritual growth, my walk with the Lord, all things pertaining to this were so blessed when I heeded the Holy Ghost and specifically and exclusively went to the KJB.

That's my personal testimony on this. God directed me to the KJB. In faith I followed. God has blessed this beyond measure and has proven the KJB to be His Word.

[Revelation3:20]

What scriptures have I rejected? At the risk of over-repeating myself, I LOVE THE KJV! I use it all the time. I help my kids memorize chapters from it. I have not rejected it.

Any time you claim there is a contradiction in scripture you are rejecting it. I don't recall which particular verses but I have seen you do this several times. If it is need full I can look through your posts and point out an example.

I don't think I ever said that we can "know" something is not a scribal error because it is repeated several times in scripture.

You said in a different thread:

"In our Bibles, we have multiple references to every important Christian doctrine and manner of life. God didn't limit Himself to just one statement about salvation, or about moral behavior, or about prayer. This repetition protects us from copies and translations that have minor errors in them. Our faith doesn't have to be shaken over minor contradictions in a certain text."

Yet you have not so much as given a scriptural basis for the idea that God has to have preserved all of His words in one place.

I never said he did. If I believed that I probably would be a ruckmanite. I believe God has preserved his word in many places, but I also believe, IF a bible is the preserved word of God, it is error free.

Personal opinion? How so? Apparently, you do not understand my position

I believe I have an excellent grasp of your position. I have known many people with the same position. I wish I was misunderstanding you, but I am quite confident I am not.

[Guest Guest]

I know this wasn't directed at me and I can't speak for others but I would like to answer anyway. For myself, the Holy Ghost specifically led me to the KJB. The leading was very clear. When I got hold of a KJB and put aside all others, the work of the Holy Ghost in my life was beyond amazing. The Scriptures were literally alive to me in no way they ever had been before. Where I had struggled to memorize Scripture previously, Scripture memorization became virtually easy. My spiritual growth, my walk with the Lord, all things pertaining to this were so blessed when I heeded the Holy Ghost and specifically and exclusively went to the KJB.

That's my personal testimony on this. God directed me to the KJB. In faith I followed. God has blessed this beyond measure and has proven the KJB to be His Word.

John, I would like to add that my testimony goes the same way with the KJB. I couldn't get anything out of the NIV, in fact---the Holy Spirit led me right to the KJB, too. Somehow, I even ended up buying the KJB at the bookstore for my son shortly before he made his "First Communion" in the RCC. We left the RCC in July of that year. By the end of October we were in the IB church. I can't even really remember how the words spoke to me, how I undertood what they meant, and when that was---exactly? I just know that this Bible has always pulled my hubby, myself, my (our) son, and all I know---through turmoil and through---the great times in life. God has proven numerous times to me and others I know that His KJB is His Holy word. :amen:

[Jerry]

God does not contradict Himself' date=' and there are enough discrepancies in the KJV to indicate that it is not completely free from error.[/quote']

Actually, all you have shown is that you are not willing to accept ANY Bible translation. You are your own authority, not the Bible. You pick and choose what manuscripts or Bibles and Bible passages you will accept.

God says His Word would be available forever to His people. If every person has to wade through multiple manuscripts to access these words, then God has not kept His promise. Your claim that the Holy Spirit will guide you in this manner is so subjective - do you have access to all the manuscripts? Can you read them? How come your conclusion differ from every other Bible critic? The fact that they keep putting out newer Bible versions that are different from each other show that no group of Bible critics can agree on what should and should not be in there.

[kevinmiller]

That's great and I can certainly respect that. However, it would be nearly impossible to show that the KJV is the only version people should use based on God's leading in one's life, personally. That's why I'm trying to determine how he decides what is God's Word and what isn't. Personal leading can't be argued against someone else.

[Guest Guest]

That's great and I can certainly respect that. However' date=' it would be nearly impossible to show that the KJV is the only version people should use based on God's leading in one's life, personally. That's why I'm trying to determine how he decides what is God's Word and what isn't. Personal leading can't be argued against someone else.[/quote']


Hi Kevin---If you read brandpulcked statements about other Bible versions, I think he said it very well. I don't know how---but he did say it in a very logical way for anyone to undertand. IMO, those were wonderful words from BP. :thumb I understand that you and I come from different worlds. You were raised IFB, and I was raised RCC. That is no secret. LOL. Actually, from what I have heard about the Free-Presbyterians---they hold closest to God's Holy word, correct? I am very happy that the Lord has chosen you to serve in Korea and I know that he will bless you very much for it. I had written many posts defending the KJBO stance, but I respectly believe that your heart is right with Christ. You will do much good to the Korean people as you administer the Gospel of Jesus Christ to those beautiful people of the world. Don't forget---I am NOT a Baptist Brider, as I have stated so in a thread. I am NOT going to argue the KJVO stance because it only turns into a Ruckman debate---I don't know why?---but, it always goes that route. David Cloud comes into play. Jack Hyles (in Heaven)---and, so many other wonderful men of God. I don't want to attack men of God, in this way. My only issue is really legalism at this point---which I know comes directly from the RCC. My pastor always says that "we can ever know what is in a person's heart---because we don't even know what is in our own." Jeremiah 17:9...The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? KJV. I know you have strong Bible-believing roots that will carry you through your whole life. God bless!

~ Molly