Divorce and remarriage

[Invicta]

Is it always wrong for a Christian Person who has been divorced to remarry?   It seem that the teaching of the Lord Jesus in the gospels put a blanket ban on such a remarriage, but some  say that Paul does not go so far.

The situation is as follows

A young Christian girl who was with us while she was at university met and married a young man who seemed to be a fine Christian, and they moved away.  recently the husband laid with the wife's cousin while she was upstairs asleep.  She found out about this but forgave him.  Then later he and a female colleague  (they were both in the police force) we involved in a difficult arrest, she perhaps even saved his life.  They got lose and began to have an affair.  He and his wife separated and eventually divorced.  She moved back to our area and met a member of our church who has never been married, and they now wish to marry in our church.  We are very fond of both of them and we find it a difficult decision.  The second point is that IF we do decide to marry them, as we do not at present have a pastor, we would need a to find a minister who we know as a preacher who has preached in our church who would be prepared to conduct the service.  

Please reply with scripture references,

Thanks,

David

[wretched]

2 hours ago, Invicta said:

Is it always wrong for a Christian Person who has been divorced to remarry?   It seem that the teaching of the Lord Jesus in the gospels put a blanket ban on such a remarriage, but some  say that Paul does not go so far.

The situation is as follows

A young Christian girl who was with us while she was at university met and married a young man who seemed to be a fine Christian, and they moved away.  recently the husband laid with the wife's cousin while she was upstairs asleep.  She found out about this but forgave him.  Then later he and a female colleague  (they were both in the police force) we involved in a difficult arrest, she perhaps even saved his life.  They got lose and began to have an affair.  He and his wife separated and eventually divorced.  She moved back to our area and met a member of our church who has never been married, and they now wish to marry in our church.  We are very fond of both of them and we find it a difficult decision.  The second point is that IF we do decide to marry them, as we do not at present have a pastor, we would need a to find a minister who we know as a preacher who has preached in our church who would be prepared to conduct the service.  

Please reply with scripture references,

Thanks,

David

Our Lord in the Gospels presented the only exception clarifying the Law and this case meets that criteria for divorce AND remarriage when folks read it carefully. Further clarified in I Cor 7.

Mat 5:32, But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
 Mat 19:9, And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

,I Cor 7: 27Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife.
 28, But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.

God through Paul says it won't be easy but it is better than fornicating.

Edited January 21, 2016 by wretched

[Invicta]

Thanks for you reply, but how does that help in our situation.  I was sent a link to John Piper on this and he is totally against it.  Even if the church agree to the marriage we would need to find a minister who will perform the ceremony.  Two Baptist pastors we know don't believe you should be married in church at all.  One of those would not marry divorced people at all.  We do have a retired baptist minister who is a member of our church and we would normally ask his counsel first, but about a month ago he had a stroke and for a weeks or so was recovering but then had a bad stomach upset and on Saturday evening was rushed back into hospital with suspected internal bleeding.

[John Young]

Its best if they did not have the wedding at the church or with any official blessing from the church. Its pretty clear biblically that if the man is a saved Chrsitian she aught to remain unmarried as long as she can and try to be reconciled to her husband. If he is only pretending and is an unbeliever then biblically she is free from the unbeliever. 

If the two wish to marry in a civil ceremony outside of the church they can. Deuteronomy 24:1-4 provides for that in the occasion that a man becomes hard hearted towards his wife. While the church should only promote the best outcome sometimes there are difficult situations. Rather then force the whole church to bless the unbiblical or questionable marriage for two of its members it may be better for the two to privately do the marriage then allow the church to forgive any indiscretion it may have caused. 

A couple friends of mine had a similar situation which included shard custety of children. The wife had married a "godly man" when they were at bible college. Several times he was  caught in his infidelity and each time he repented and she forgave him eventually he found one he wanted to marry and would not repent and they separated she tried to reconcile but he divorced and married the other woman. For some time she tried it on her own but a single never married father, newly saved, got to know her and eventually it became clear they loved each other and it made practical sense that they should marry. While they want ed to marry in the church building with the blessing of the church they were conflicted as what to do because they wanted to follow scripture. So rather then berdon the church they had a private wedding at home. The church then allowed an unofficial reception to be held in the church fellowship hall.

1 Corinthians 7:15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

Deuteronomy 24:1-4 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. 2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man’s wife. 3 And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife; 4 her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the Lord: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.

[Invicta]

Thanks again.  The man comes from a very fractured family life.  He was brought up through our Sunday School and the baptised and became a member of our church, he moved away to Scotland for family reasons (his mother and sister moved there and he was worried about his sister and wanted to keep his eye on her.)  two or three years ago, he followed his sister back to this area and again became a member of our church.  He was very keen bringing unsaved members of his family, as well as members of the staff of the- restaurant where he works to our services.  With a Czech student who was with us at the time, he started an occasional meeting for 18-30 year olds.  It couldn't be regular as he is head chef in a restaurant and has to fit in with his hours. The lady he wishes to marry was accepted as a member and has also joined in with this work.  She is also an accomplished pianist and used to play for us before she moved away. One problem I have is that if we refused to marry them, could we still have them as members?  I don't see how we could.  

They have said they would understand if we decide not to marry them.

[wretched]

5 hours ago, Invicta said:

Thanks for you reply, but how does that help in our situation.  I was sent a link to John Piper on this and he is totally against it.  Even if the church agree to the marriage we would need to find a minister who will perform the ceremony.  Two Baptist pastors we know don't believe you should be married in church at all.  One of those would not marry divorced people at all.  We do have a retired baptist minister who is a member of our church and we would normally ask his counsel first, but about a month ago he had a stroke and for a weeks or so was recovering but then had a bad stomach upset and on Saturday evening was rushed back into hospital with suspected internal bleeding.

Well, I must have lost you somewhere here pardner.

If the question is whether they can marry in this case without sin then my answer stands.

If the question is whether they should marry in the church or by a preacher, the Scriptural answer is actually NO for anyone whether divorced or not. I see no examples of weddings in a church anywhere in the NT and I see no "work" or duty of a pastor to marry people period in the NT.

It is a more catholic and pagan practice to marry in a "religious" setting by a priest or witchdoctor or whatever. 

God certainly created marriage but He did not create "Wedding Ceremonies". This is man's invention and adopted by human government. Although there are references to weddings incidental to the real text in Scripture both in the OT and NT, there is zero reference to God ordering, ordaining or giving instructions in performing "ceremonies". 

Marriage in the Bible was the man getting permission from the parents and taking the woman to bed with the commitment to keep her as his wife.

I think in these days, it would be quite dumb to continue the practice of marrying in church when there is no hint of doing so in Scripture. Next you will have 2 dudes or 2 dudettes or a dude and goat coming to be hitched. Persecution should be welcome in the work of the Great Commission, but dumb if we cause it ourselves. God did not put us here to defend marriage and Scripture, He saved us to teach, baptize and disciple all nations.

There is the Marriage Supper of the Lamb discussed by God, so use this as the standard. I recommend directing them to the justice of the peace or equivalent and afterward they all head down to the local Applebees or British fine dining equivalent  for a marriage supper. 

Has nothing to do with their membership in the church from what I see in Scripture.

[Invicta]

I see. 

Before 1837 over here, there were no civil marriages.  They were always in a church which kept records, which is very useful if you are doing family research.  Churches usually kept records of births if they were baptist, or child baptisms if they weren't, marriages and deaths.   

In France, all marriages have to be civil in front of the Mayor, and I believe you have to state if you will hold property jointly or individually. We once bought a house in France and the notaire said we had to state if our marriage was base on if we were to hold it jointly.  Women are also recorded in their maiden name in legal documents.  A married woman is recorded as  (maiden name) epouse de, [espoused to] (man's name.)

[No Nicolaitans]

51 minutes ago, wretched said:

Marriage in the Bible was the man getting permission from the parents and taking the woman to bed with the commitment to keep her as his wife.

Is that what the Lord Jesus Christ attended in Cana?

[wretched]

26 minutes ago, Oὐ Νικολαΐτης said:

Is that what the Lord Jesus Christ attended in Cana?

uh oh, shame, shame NN, you didn't read the whole post  Check this out:

Although there are references to weddings incidental to the real text in Scripture both in the OT and NT, there is zero reference to God ordering, ordaining or giving instructions in performing "ceremonies". 

 

[No Nicolaitans]

1 minute ago, wretched said:

uh oh, shame, shame NN, you didn't read the whole post  Check this out:

Although there are references to weddings incidental to the real text in Scripture both in the OT and NT, there is zero reference to God ordering, ordaining or giving instructions in performing "ceremonies". 

 

No sir, I saw that...but you said that this is what a wedding was...

1 hour ago, wretched said:

Marriage in the Bible was the man getting permission from the parents and taking the woman to bed with the commitment to keep her as his wife.

That was obviously some type of ceremony that the Lord attended, and since the Lord never sinned, I would assume that he had no issue with the ceremony. Incidentally, and though I know you are opposed to referencing Greek, the Greek word used for both "wedding" and "marriage" in the New Testament means "nuptials", and the meaning of nuptial from Webster's 1828 Dictionary is as follows...

NUP'TIAL, a. [L., to marry.]
 1. Pertaining to marriage; done at a wedding; as nuptial rites and ceremonies; nuptial torch.
 2. Constituting marriage; as the nuptial knot or band.

1 hour ago, wretched said:

There is the Marriage Supper of the Lamb discussed by God, so use this as the standard.

That "marriage" also means "nuptial", so it also will be a ceremony.

By the way, I do actually agree with the premise of your post. Too much is made of the ceremony, and I fear that many churches and pastors will soon find themselves in a pickle with the way this country is going.

[wretched]

42 minutes ago, Oὐ Νικολαΐτης said:

No sir, I saw that...but you said that this is what a wedding was...

No sir, I said marriage-not wedding. Marriage is the joining of man and woman and of God,  while wedding is a ceremony about that joining but of man

That was obviously some type of ceremony that the Lord attended, and since the Lord never sinned, I would assume that he had no issue with the ceremony. Incidentally, and though I know you are opposed to referencing Greek, the Greek word used for both "wedding" and "marriage" in the New Testament means "nuptials", and the meaning of nuptial from Webster's 1828 Dictionary is as follows...

No sir, I never said attending a ceremony was sinful or having one was sinful. I simply stated what the Word doesn't state and if it don't state it, why are we worried about doing it? The Lord attended the ceremony in Cana for reasons having little or nothing to do with the ceremony itself, the ceremony was incidental.

NUP'TIAL, a. [L., to marry.]
 1. Pertaining to marriage; done at a wedding; as nuptial rites and ceremonies; nuptial torch.
 2. Constituting marriage; as the nuptial knot or band.

That "marriage" also means "nuptial", so it also will be a ceremony.

No sir friend, I did state that man made it up. I believe a fella name Webster came up with this part you just wrote- not God.  

 

Read my bolds and put up your dukes buddy....nah, just kiddin...my arms are tired

Edited January 21, 2016 by wretched

[Ukulelemike]

In scripture, marriage, in the ceremony, always seemed to be a big affair of family and friends, often lasting days. I recently did some studying into Jewish wedding traditions, and found that the length, of course, often depended upon the financial abilities of the family-so some were shorter than others, (and there is nothing at all in tradition about the bride being hidden away in a room for seven days, despite the attempt to make it a symbol of the church being taken before the seven year tribulation, but I digress). And they were actually neither really religious or civil, just family.

Here in America, a service HAS to be officiated, though it can be either civil or religious. Biblically I see no reason that a pastor has to do it, though some see Jesus' first miracle being at a wedding, as a hint that it ought to be attended in some way by a representative of the Lord, (though that might be stretching it.)

As for the OP, I think something important to understand as well, is that a marriage represents the relationship between the Lord Jesus Christ (the husband) and His church (the wife). This is why it is so important for both to be believers, (or unbelievers) and not a mix at the marriage. Out of time, will continue this later. 

[No Nicolaitans]

43 minutes ago, wretched said:

No sir, I said marriage-not wedding.

You're right, I don't know why I wrote wedding.

[Invicta]

Can I add to the original post that the divorced woman has a 3 year old daughter.  I uess in bible times she would be the possession of the husband, but here in the UK husband and wife legally have equal rights to residence of the child but in actual fact judges will almost always favour the ex wife.   My thoughts at present are "Do I really think that the Lord really wants a child to grow up in a home without a male role model?"  I am one of four people who will have to decide to recommend or not recommend the marriage to the members.  I wish I didn't have to make the decision.  

[beameup]

On 1/21/2016 at 8:36 AM, Invicta said:

Is it always wrong for a Christian Person who has been divorced to remarry?   It seem that the teaching of the Lord Jesus in the gospels put a blanket ban on such a remarriage

If you live under "the law" then yes.  Jesus lived and died under "the Law".  The majority in Christendom put themselves, to some degree or another, under "the law".

δέ εἰ τὶς ἀγνοέω ἀγνοέω