Were old testament believers indwelt?

[Jordan Kurecki]

Were old testament believers indwelt by the Holy Spirit?

why or why not?

give me solid scripture

Edited January 14, 2016 by Jordan Kurecki

[wretched]

Not:

There is no Scripture in the OT that says anything like that

There is no Scripture in the NT that says anything like that

As a matter of Bible Fact,  Jesus said that even His Disciples were not indwelt until His ascension and Pentecost: Luke 22:

32, But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
33, And he said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death.
34, And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me.

John 14:16, And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
John 14:26, But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
John 15:26, But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
John 16:7, Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

[beameup]

David: Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.  Psalm 51:11

[swathdiver]

10 hours ago, wretched said:

Not:

There is no Scripture in the OT that says anything like that

There is no Scripture in the NT that says anything like that

John 14:16, And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
John 14:26, But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Wretched, seems even Pharaoh knew more than you and some others here:

“And Pharaoh said unto his servants, Can we find such a one as this is, a man in whom the Spirit of God is?” – Genesis 41:38

 

In addition, contrast John 14:16 and 26 with this:

"Thou gavest also thy good spirit to instruct them, and withheldest not thy manna from their mouth, and gavest them water for their thirst." – Nehemiah 9:20

 

So YES!  The Holy Spirit indwells every believer at the moment of their salvation.  But that is not all the Holy Spirit does and that's where you folks always get tripped up with those wolves, getting the context and meaning of words wrong.

[Critical Mass]

The Spirit did not permanently abide in a man before Christ ascension to heaven. No one was sealed prior to Acts 2. If the disciples already had the Holy Ghost abiding than Jesus didn't need to send the Comforter (John 14:16) who couldn't come until Jesus departed this world (John 16:7). 

5 hours ago, beameup said:

David: Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.  Psalm 51:11

The anointing upon David. The spirit (small "s") of God would come and rest upon and individual at times to do a work but never abiding and sealing like in the N.T.

[wretched]

4 hours ago, swathdiver said:

Wretched, seems even Pharaoh knew more than you and some others here:

“And Pharaoh said unto his servants, Can we find such a one as this is, a man in whom the Spirit of God is?” – Genesis 41:38

 

In addition, contrast John 14:16 and 26 with this:

"Thou gavest also thy good spirit to instruct them, and withheldest not thy manna from their mouth, and gavest them water for their thirst." – Nehemiah 9:20

 

So YES!  The Holy Spirit indwells every believer at the moment of their salvation.  But that is not all the Holy Spirit does and that's where you folks always get tripped up with those wolves, getting the context and meaning of words wrong.

Sorry friend, but your proof here is none at all. I have already explained the difference in another posting. Of course with some the Spirit did "come on" in the OT but there is zero evidence of regeneration, indwelling and sealing. Each time that the Spirit did come on anyone in the OT it was described that way. Were there regeneration as in the NT, then it would not have been described when it occurred. When God needed a man or a woman, that is how He used them. It was incidental to God's plan and episodic. Even Saul had a time when this occurred, do you really think it permanent? Does the Spirit come over us at certain times and not at others? I don't think so.

Don't you see the differences? Whom do you know that God comes to physically to speak with? Whom do you know that has witnessed the blinding lights and verbal instructions from the Lord? Who do you know that heals the sick. The Lord is dealing with us in this age vastly different than the OT faithful all the up until Pentecost after Christ's ascension. Now we can be born again, regenerated and sealed until the day of redemption. NOT BY SIGHT but by real faith. There is zero evidence of this ever occurring prior. AND to add to this evidence, there is zero evidence of God's showing anyone signs, wonders, visions, miracles, etc. in this age apart from the liars and mentally retarded.

This ain't rocket surgery  

I know you want your preacher to be right friend, but he isn't. On the bright side however, it hardly matters for us so don't get so defensive over it. Your salvation can still be secure and sealed regardless of whether or not OT believers were. IT matters zero to our mission here on earth so I am trying to stop correcting it but have to say that this blending all the Bible together ignoring the plain text as written for the sake of easy preaching is a mix of both laziness or ignorance and gets very annoying. It is what the reformers do, everything needs to be easy for them, it is satan's way and where replacement and calvinism spawned from - the flesh.

And folks, don't claim for a second that your pastors who teach this same same nonsense are not influenced by reformed theology. They absolutely are and may not even realize it.

[swathdiver]

14 hours ago, wretched said:

Sorry friend, but your proof here is none at all. I have already explained the difference in another posting. Of course with some the Spirit did "come on" in the OT but there is zero evidence of regeneration, indwelling and sealing.

Such a statement is contrary to even Nehemiah 9:20, let alone the over verses throughout the OT.  I'll stick with rightly dividing the bible thanks and not carving it up into little confusing, contradictory pieces to satisfy the devil.

[MountainChristian]

Exo 31:3 And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship,

Exo 35:31 And he hath filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship;

 

[swathdiver]

Amen!  And here are two more from the other side:

“And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.”  - Acts 2:4

“And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;” - Ephesians 5:18
 

[Ronda]

I agree, "Wretched", you brought out the very verses that show the Holy Ghost had not indwelt anyone prior to Jesus crucifixion, burial, and resurrection. 

John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;"

John 15:26 "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me"

John 16:7 "7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you."

Acts 1:5 "For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence."

Acts 11:16 "Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost."

***************************************************************************

"Beameup" brought out this verse:

Psalm 51:11 "Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me."

Why would David be asking the Lord not "take not thy holy spirit from me"?

Do we (as believer's in this dispensation of grace) have to worry about or pray and ask God to not take away the holy spirit?
No, we do not... we are sealed by the holy Spirit (captial "S") unto the day of redemption (Eph. 4:30).
We don't have to worry about it or pray that God not take it from us... we have eternal security, and there is nothing we can do to LOSE the Holy Spirit, nor is there anything we can do to LOSE salvation once we have accepted Christ.
Obviously, David was under a different set of rules than we are if he felt the need to pray that God wouldn't talke the holy spirit (small-case "s) from him.

[wretched]

9 hours ago, swathdiver said:

Such a statement is contrary to even Nehemiah 9:20, let alone the over verses throughout the OT.  I'll stick with rightly dividing the bible thanks and not carving it up into little confusing, contradictory pieces to satisfy the devil.

 

7 hours ago, MountainChristian said:

Exo 31:3 And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship,

Exo 35:31 And he hath filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship;

 

I appreciate your desperate searches but if you would just be honest with yourselves, and reread slowly what I said, you are just reinforcing my point. These verses you posted are not the same thing.

It is ok, have it your way though, it matters little to us now

[Jordan Kurecki]

1 hour ago, Ronda said:

I agree, "Wretched", you brought out the very verses that show the Holy Ghost had not indwelt anyone prior to Jesus crucifixion, burial, and resurrection. 

John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;"

John 15:26 "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me"

John 16:7 "7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you."

Acts 1:5 "For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence."

Acts 11:16 "Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost."

***************************************************************************

"Beameup" brought out this verse:

Psalm 51:11 "Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me."

Why would David be asking the Lord not "take not thy holy spirit from me"?

Do we (as believer's in this dispensation of grace) have to worry about or pray and ask God to not take away the holy spirit?
No, we do not... we are sealed by the holy Spirit (captial "S") unto the day of redemption (Eph. 4:30).
We don't have to worry about it or pray that God not take it from us... we have eternal security, and there is nothing we can do to LOSE the Holy Spirit, nor is there anything we can do to LOSE salvation once we have accepted Christ.
Obviously, David was under a different set of rules than we are if he felt the need to pray that God wouldn't talke the holy spirit (small-case "s) from him.

Some would say that in Psalm 51:11 David is asking for God not to take away the power and influence of the spirit from him. It's very similar to Luke Chapter 11, where we are told God gives the Holy Spirit to them that ask, Luke 11 is not talking about praying to receive the Holy Spirit period, but it means praying for the qualities and influence of the Holy Spirit. I am told that this idea is very apparent in the Greek, though I cannot seem to explain it sufficiently myself.

I also have pointed others to John 14 where it says "he shall be in you" future tense. though a friend explained it away.

[Ronda]

1 hour ago, Jordan Kurecki said:

I also have pointed others to John 14 where it says "he shall be in you" future tense. though a friend explained it away.

I agree that it surely was worded to be future tense. No "explaining it away" needed. Especially since the Lord Jesus was so specific in stating (in John 16:7) that it was "expedient" that He go away prior to the Comforter being given. And even more specifically that the "Comforter will not come" unless He departs first.  I can't understand how anyone would have difficulty understanding that, nor why they would even want to "explain it away"

John 16:7 " Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you."

[MountainChristian]

Temporary gifts are not supported by scripture. Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

What part of that verse says the Holy Spirit did not come unto men in the past? During the time when Jesus was the Word with God.

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; because he has never been here but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

 

 

 

[wretched]

1 hour ago, MountainChristian said:

Temporary gifts are not supported by scripture. Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

What part of that verse says the Holy Spirit did not come unto men in the past? During the time when Jesus was the Word with God.

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; because he has never been here but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

 

 

 

Well, it appears we are both stuck right here.

But one doctrine we can all agree with is this: Blueberry pie is far better than Mincemeat !!