Question for the Calvinists

[Alimantado]

Calvinists spread the gospel the same way we do. I say we stop fighting with each other and unite for the cause of Christ instead of slowing the gospel down over things that don't matter and won't matter for eternity.

Perhaps people divide over it because non-Calvinists think Calvinism presents a God with a very different will and character. Whether they are correct or not, non-Calvinists seem to view the Calvinist God as one that doesn't love all his Creation and doesn't want all to come to repentance and I can see how that difference in characterisation might be a difficult one to ignore for the sake of spreading the Gospel. Just speculating, mind.

[dwayner79]

Perhaps people divide over it because non-Calvinists think Calvinism presents a God with a very different will and character. Whether they are correct or not, non-Calvinists seem to view the Calvinist God as one that doesn't love all his Creation and doesn't want all to come to repentance and I can see how that difference in characterization might be a difficult one to ignore for the sake of spreading the Gospel. Just speculating, mind.

Great post. I think you are correct. However, I think they add (as the OP did) to that a sense of cynicism to His character as well. I do think that the mis-representation of the position is the main cause for all of the division.

[lettheredeemedsayso]

According to Calvinists:

Only God knows who will be saved, and who will go to Hell. (that is my take, as described by the Calvies)


So, how can a Calvinist rightfully claim to "know" that they are saved?

[ If they say, " I am one of the "elect", then how do they know for sure- that they are- after all, only God has determined that ( according to Calvinists)]

[ How can Calvinists be assured of their salvation, when they accept assumptions]





Here is what I would be like, If I were to have been duped by Calvinism:

"I am saved" , but " Am I actually one of the "elect"?"
" The Bible says, " whosoever" but " Am I one of those elected whosoevers"
"The Bible says, " the world" but " my teachers say that the word "world" refers only to the elect, and only God knows who they are"
" The Bible says "whosoever shall call.." but " I did call, and IF I am not one of the elect, then I wasted my time"
" There is a place called Hell, I do not want to go there, if I am not elected to be saved then I am going to go to Hell! What kind of God is this!"


How can Calvinists actually be saved, if they really do not know that they are.....?


It must be a miserable life.... " AM I one of the elect?" or " Am I not?"



Think.

That is an excellant point!

[kevinmiller]

That is an excellant point!

No it's not. Anyone who knows a Calvinist knows they don't believe that way. They know exactly the same way you know- fruit.
No offense to mksj since I'm sure he posted sincerely, but he posted in ignorance.

[Bro. Diego]

As a preacher I have get to know something, as more far of calvinism the better!! I am sorry for those who are calvinist but when they start talking as if they knew everything and they know the greta "revelations" and "deepness" and get all there theology in pure play of words and philosphy and quoting Mr. X and Mrs V, ayayii. I can't take it, it gives me such a headache. With all my respect for those who want to be calvinist they can be its there problem, but me, I don't stop to much even to study the craziness of calvinism. Once I was even reading a book that talked about the errors of calvinism, and I didn't even get a chance to finish it, I preach the Word of God, pure BIble, if you want to preach Calvinsim go ahead but very far of me, please!!! I will preach Word of God and just Word of God, I don't have to be studying what TULIP and all those things means, I don't loose my time.

[heartstrings]

First, you contradict this person, then you turn right around and confirm what he said.

His quote....

Salvation is based upon the word of God. Calvinist believe that some are "elected" to go to heaven ( whether they even want to or not) and some are damned to Hell ( whether they want to or not). How can a Calvinist base his/her salvation in something they question??????????

Your contradiction...

I think your position is based on a faulty understanding of Calvinism. No one believes that people go to heaven whether they want to or not.

Your quote ...

The Calvinist believes that the Holy Spirit calls the elect' date=' and that that calling MUST be followed[/u'].

But I agree with Brother Diego, It's a waste of precious time arguing with you guys....

[dwayner79]

I'm not sure who "you guys" are... :roll *

You are unable to see past your own ignorance of the subject. Those two are NOT mutually exclusive. The people, under a Calvinist position, want to go to heaven. Noone goes to heaven kicking and screaming. Noone goes to hell who really wants to go to heaven. The calling of the Holy Spirit changes ones will to accept Christ. That is how the two are reconciled.



* You assume that because I take the time and care to present a view accurately, without building a strawman, that I must hold to that view. What a shame. Its typical to see folks who disagree with a position willing to accept less then accurate portrayals of those position. Typical, and dead wrong.

[Guest Guest]

I'm not sure who "you guys" are... :roll *

You are unable to see past your own ignorance of the subject. Those two are NOT mutually exclusive. The people, under a Calvinist position, want to go to heaven. Noone goes to heaven kicking and screaming. Noone goes to hell who really wants to go to heaven. The calling of the Holy Spirit changes ones will to accept Christ. That is how the two are reconciled.



* You assume that because I take the time and care to present a view accurately, without building a strawman, that I must hold to that view. What a shame. Its typical to see folks who disagree with a position willing to accept less then accurate portrayals of those position. Typical, and dead wrong.

The problem is, the Calvinist view cannot be defended without saying that the King James Bible doesn't mean what it says. Check out the other thread on this issue that's active right now. It's called "No One Can Come to Jesus Christ, Unless...".

[kevinmiller]

Dwayne isn't Calvinist(that I know of) and I'm not either. However, we simply have a problem with blatant misrepresentation of the facts. I doubt as if any of the people supporting his strawman argument even know any Calvinists or spoken with them. I have a lot of Calvinist friends and I have a feeling Dwayne knows a few, as well, since he's not quite that "separated." :wink

[Truthseeking]

Amen! Calvinism makes no Biblical or logical sense at all!

(something my husband and I were talking about: is there any Biblical support to say that God DOES know everything? yes He's all-powerful and All-present, but we don't recall Scripture supporting that God knows everything future, just everything present, i.e. Jesus knew their thoughts as they thought them.)

Interesting point..... but why would'nt God know everything future ? Calvinists have everyone mixed up !

[kevinmiller]

How could God use prophecy if He wasn't all-knowing? How could He have set everything into place for the death of Christ if He didn't have complete foreknowledge of the future? The Bible says that "whom He did foreknow."

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

[John81]

How could God use prophecy if He wasn't all-knowing? How could He have set everything into place for the death of Christ if He didn't have complete foreknowledge of the future? The Bible says that "whom He did foreknow.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

:goodpost:

[coc333]

I have been reading the post on this thread. I have noticed that several individuals have made "attacks" on Calvinist. Now, it will never be sead that I am a Calvinist or that I support his false doctines. As a matter of fact, I am currently preaching a series on his TULIP doctrine. (Well, my research suggested that he never actually wrote the "TULIP" but did support this doctrine). But, I must say that I find it interesting that some of the same people who are here attacking Calvinst support at least part of the TULIP doctrine.

The "P" stands for what? Perseverance of the saints. That would be "once saved always saved." Correct me if I am wrong, but are there not some here who believe in Total Hereditary Depravity (inherited sin, original sin)?

So, it seems that there are many Calvinist here.

[heartstrings]

I have been reading the post on this thread. I have noticed that several individuals have made "attacks" on Calvinist. Now, it will never be sead that I am a Calvinist or that I support his false doctines. As a matter of fact, I am currently preaching a series on his TULIP doctrine. (Well, my research suggested that he never actually wrote the "TULIP" but did support this doctrine). But, I must say that I find it interesting that some of the same people who are here attacking Calvinst support at least part of the TULIP doctrine.

The "P" stands for what? Perseverance of the saints. That would be "once saved always saved." Correct me if I am wrong, but are there not some here who believe in Total Hereditary Depravity (inherited sin, original sin)?
So, it seems that there are many Calvinist here.

I am neither an Arminian nor a Calvinist. These are both false doctrine. But the Bible clearly teaches that a born again. bloodwashed, child of God can never be lost. (john 5:24) But the Bible also teaches that saved people are NOT sinless and we are capable of falling into sin, and if we do not get right, the Bible teaches that God will be chasten us or take us home early. This is hardly in keeping with "perseverance of the saints" because obviously not all saints "persevere".

The Bible teaches that "there is NONE righteous, no not one" and it teaches that none of us seek after God. But Calvinism teaches that man is so "totally depraved" that he has no free will or ability to respond positively to the Gospel. This is a lie of the Devil. Sir, we are supposed to contend for the faith. If it's false doctrine, call it what it is. As for myself, I reject and refute all of the "tulip". Jesus died for every single person who ever lived and He paid the debt for every sin ever committed. He draws ALL to come to Him, we all have the ability to believe on Him, but he doesn't force anyone to accept Him.

[Alimantado]

I am going to refrain from posting on this site any longer. It has taken up too much of my time.

Have you got some more time on your hands now, then?