Revelation chapter 19-22 Study.

[Alan]

Covenanter,

Thank you for letting both DaveW and I the problems concerning the long posts problem. It will be of a help when we encounter such problems. 

[DaveW]

​That comes from one I have reported many times for personal attacks & lack of respect. 

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Regarding quoting - you will see from the "Everlasting Covenant" thread that it failed disastrously for me in a very long post. (Long because I was quoting Bro. Scott.)  I had to go back & find my post, copy it into my word processor & then copy into my reply. I have complained regularly to @BroMatt but had no replies. 

Yep it does.

[John81]

​

Thank you for your question as I have been in deep thought and prayer what to do once this study is concluded.

Alan

​I would think any, or eventually all, of those studies could be beneficial.

Thank you for this study and your efforts to keep it on track and to not allow it to become derailed.

[Rosie]

i would be interested in these studies. like John said any and all

[Rosie]

I had no idea you were a missionary in Taiwan.. amen brother

[Genevanpreacher]

As I said a couple of times previously, and as DaveW wrote, the scriptures plainly state that the Lord Jesus comes back as a, "thief." A thief comes in total secrecy and only until he has left with the valuables does any body know he was there.  Thank you DaveW.

As I wrote previoulsy, in 2 Thessalonians 2:11 states, "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie."

In order to explain the disappearance (in the Rapture), the Anti-Christ will lie to the peoples of this earth why millions of people disapprered. The peoples of this world will believe the lie of the Anti-Christ. The Rapture, even after it occurs, will be a secret from the peoples of this world. God will allow the lie to be believed due to the ungodly sins of the peoples of this world. 

Reading 1 Thessalonians 4:13 - 5:4 would really help your understanding of the proper way to see the thief view:

 

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

And it continues into chapter 5 -

1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then *sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

*Sounds like they hear the 'thief' to me. 

 

 

Edited June 19, 2015 by Genevanpreacher

[Alan]

Would anybody like to bring out any other comments on the, "thief" aspect of the Coming of Christ as spoken by Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-5:4.

Or, can anybody think of a biblical illustration of a thief that may be applicable to this situation? Let us try and just keep any comments or illustrations in this matter that may shed light on this subject and not chase too many rabbits.

[DaveW]

Only that the verses quoted above - and particularly the asterisk marked point - only supports the idea that it will not be known UNTIL THE ACTUAL EVENT.

Even a woman with child as used in the passage, knowns it is coming but not WHEN until it actually happens.

So yes, that passage does indeed help us to have a proper understanding of the theif concept - that the theif is not known until he exercises his craft.

Exactly what you and I  have already said, and what the Bible teaches.

Secret before, results seen afterwards.

[Alan]

DaveW,

I'm in perfect agreement. Thank you John Young for your agreement with DaveW also and your help in this study.

Brethren,

Now, let's get back with the discussion on the last lesson, Revelation 22:14 and 15, "The Tree of Life," in verse 14 and the listing of the ungodly attributes of the lost (and the flesh), in verse 15. Any further thoughts, or areas of discussion, on the items that I pointed out in these two verses?

Additional Prophetical Information on "Dogs."

One thing that I would like to add to my comments on "dogs,"  (false teachers of false doctrines) on 2 Peter 2:1-22.

When the Lord Jesus was on the cross of Calvary, the lost relgious leaders of Israel, (the Pharisees, the scribes and elders), derided and mocked the Lord Jesus. Since the false teachers could not find fault with the Lord Jesus they derided Him in order to belittle and discredit Him in front of others. "They return at evening: they make a noise like a dog, and go round about the city. Behold, they belch out with mouth: swords are in their lips: for who, say they, doth hear." Psalm 59:6 & 7. The criticism of false teachers against the the Lord Jesus, and any man of God, has never changed. Their criticisms are like the belching of a dog: never ceasing, always complaining and finding fault and yapping at every opportunity.

This was in fulfilment of the prophecy of Psalm 22:1-20 In Psalm 22: 16 and 20 these false teachers are referred to as, "strong bulls of Bashan," and, " a roaring lion," and finally, "dogs," exactly as we see in 2 Peter 2 refers to them.

The, "strong bulls of Bashan, " and the, "roaring lion," is directly correlated to the, "brute beasts," in 2 Peter 2:12

"For dogs, have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have enclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet." Psalm 22:16

"Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog." Psalm 22:20

Therefore, if a saint wants to know more about, "false teachers," a close look at Psalm 22 and 2 Peter 2 will help enlighten the eyes of their understanding.

Alan

 

[Genevanpreacher]

Only that the verses quoted above - and particularly the asterisk marked point - only supports the idea that it will not be known UNTIL THE ACTUAL EVENT.

Even a woman with child as used in the passage, knowns it is coming but not WHEN until it actually happens.

So yes, that passage does indeed help us to have a proper understanding of the theif concept - that the theif is not known until he exercises his craft.

Exactly what you and I  have already said, and what the Bible teaches.

Secret before, results seen afterwards.

If this is what you have been saying, and I disagree it is, why would there be a lie to cover what happened?

Sudden destruction?

They will know it is Jesus.

[Alan]

As I mentioned before, the Coming of Christ is like the translation of Enoch. After God took him into heaven without dying the scriptures plainly states that the people behind did not know  what happened.

Thus, when the Lord comes for the church (only the saved folks, a lot of folks attending some churches are not saved), the world will not know what happened and the anti-Christ will tell a lie; and that lie will be believed. Then the 7 Year Tribulation starts as recorded in Revelation 6-19

Edited August 29, 2017 by Alan
grammer & spelling

[John81]

As I mentioned before, the Coming of Christ is like the tranlsation of Enoch. After God took him into heaven with out dying the scriptures plainly states that the people behind did not know  what happened.

Thus, when the Lord comes for the church (only the saved folks, a lot of folks attending some church are not saved), the world will not know what happened and the anti-christ will tell a lie; and that lie will be believed. Then the 7 Year Tribulation starts as recorded in Revelation 6-19

Most pre-trib rapture teachers/preachers say there will be a large number of people who know what happened. Typically they claim it will be those who were churched but unsaved and those who had heard of the rapture prior to the event.

Most every book I've read and every movie I've seen on this topic from the pre-trib rapture position take this view too.

At the same time, most also teach the anti-christ will put forth a convincing lie what happened.

Of course, most of these assume multiple millions will be raptured but the only way such numbers could be true is if they count everyone who calls themselves a Christian being raptured; including Catholics, Mormons and all church members of every denomination. Either that or there would have to be hundreds of millions of under the radar Christians that will be raptured but even tho they are under cover Christians, somehow folks will know they were Christians (??).

There are actually a lot of odd and conflicting teachings out there on this.

[Alan]

Brethren,

In order to keep on the proper flow of this study, and not get side-tracked, let us just comment on the current lesson and not dwell on previous lessons as we are just re-hashing previous discussions. The exception to this polite reminder is to new individuals who have not commented on previous lessons. As we do have a lot of viewers who have not commented so far, I just want you to know that we do welcome your comments and or areas of discussion. 

I am excited as we near the conclusion of this study in Revelation chapter 19-22. Only three more lessons to go! Thus far it I have personally enjoyed the study, the questions, the discussions and I am expecting the study to end on an enjoyable note among the brethren. I want to thank all of you.

 

Alan

 

[Genevanpreacher]

As I mentioned before, the Coming of Christ is like the tranlsation of Enoch. After God took him into heaven with out dying the scriptures plainly states that the people behind did not know  what happened.

Thus, when the Lord comes for the church (only the saved folks, a lot of folks attending some church are not saved), the world will not know what happened and the anti-christ will tell a lie; and that lie will be believed. Then the 7 Year Tribulation starts as recorded in Revelation 6-19

As I have posted the above verses from 1 Thessalonians, and you seem to 'push it aside', what about these verses from 2 Thessalonians which explain the "sudden destruction" that "commeth upon them" :

 

7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Edited June 20, 2015 by Genevanpreacher

[Alan]

We are have already discussed this point of the Coming of Christ a few times and both of us (apparently), are not going to change our beliefs so in my opinion all we are doing is wasting time and preventing others viewers from discussing topics they deem more important.