Dispensations

[John81]

No "normal Baptist position on dispensations" includes different means of salvation for different folks.

[No Nicolaitans]

 The video is a pretty straight-forward presentation of the normal Baptist position on dispensations.

 

 

No "normal Baptist position on dispensations" includes different means of salvation for different folks.

 

 

I've been a Baptist all of my life, and I've never heard any of these teachings from any church that I've attended...as a member or visitor.

 

I used to consider myself a dispensationalist, because I can see "time-divisions" in the Bible. It wasn't until a few years ago that someone made the assumption that since I was "a dispensationalist", that meant that I believed in different methods of salvation during different dispensations. Well, that was news to me! So, I delved into dispensationalism; therefore, I'm well aware that there are different facets to it. I can't say if the video's teachings are the "normal" Baptist position or not, but I can say that it's not the normal Baptist position where I'm from. It's mainly the hyper-dispensationalists who teach different methods of salvation for different dispensations, but there are disp.s who are like I was...they just see one way of salvation throughout all time, and the dispensations are basically "time periods".

 

I chose to no longer refer to myself as a dispensationalist, because I didn't want anyone to mistakenly have the false assumption that I was a hyper-dispensationalist...but that's my own conviction. I have good friends who are disp's, and they don't believe in the different methods of salvation.

[No Nicolaitans]

I'm confused...my interest was peaked, so I watched the videos. However, I didn't see or hear the "Teachers to Students" A, B, or C choices that Mountain Christian pointed out. Maybe I missed it; I don't know.

 

Okay, I listened again, and I did hear him say (at the end of the second video)...that "you'd have to be blind not to see it".

 

 I guess I'm blind.  

[MountainChristian]

That's what they say faith + works = salvation or grace. This occurs in almost all their dispensations except the current one we are living in. This can be seen in some posts here on OB. I'm glad they teach grace today, even if they get the history and future wrong. 

 

I still believe in dispensations but not that definition. To me over and over in the Bible from Adam until everlasting I see grace. Everywhere I look there is God's grace that all mankind isn't consumed. Everyone I see from the past and what is revealed of the future they need Jesus' blood just as much as I do.

[wretched]

I know man, right.

 

What is wrong with those people to believe the Bible on this.

 

After all Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Sara, Issac, JacOB all had the OT to study about Jesus' death, burial and Resurrection or did they? No they didn't.

 

What I mean is Moses, Sampson, Rahab and the prophets all had the NT to study of Jesus or did they? No, they didn't.

 

In fact, they had only God who revealed Himself to them personally through many signs, visions, dreams and miracles and they believed God and kept believing God and it was counted to them as righteousness. Make no mistake though folks, it was only the signs, visions, wonders and miracles that kept them believing. There was no indwelling Spirit.

 

It is after all clearly presented in the OT how each of the above were regenerated by the Holy Spirit and sealed until their day of redemption. Look for yourselves, in the OT books of...books of...wait a minute, it ain't in there anywhere. The NT clearly describes that they looked "forward" in hindsight as written chronologically. Those who looked forward to God's promises at the time had no idea of the details, they just believed God when God told them He would provide redemption for all mankind.

 

This overly simplistic view of the Bible is good to keep the lazy, "don't overload me with God's Word" Christians happy and coming I guess. The last thing we want to ever do is make the average Christian think about their faith.

 

This ignorant declaration that folks in the OT were ever born again only feeds the enemies of God.

[No Nicolaitans]

 The last thing we want to ever do is make the average Christian think about their faith.

 

This ignorant declaration that folks in the OT were ever born again only feeds the enemies of God.

 

 

Or...it could make those who understand that the Bible is clear (even in the Old Testament) that works have never, do never, and will never have absolutely anything whatsoever, in any shape, form, or fashion...to do with salvation...it could make those who understand this, see that the Bible is clear that righteousness comes only by grace through faith. The New Testament even tells us this in Hebrews 11. How those who propose a work's-based salvation in the OT (and the future) can miss this is beyond me. By faith...by faith...by faith!

 

The Old Testament saints weren't regenerated by the Holy Spirit as far as the biblical record shows; however, they believed what God said, and it was accounted unto them for righteousness. Today, we believe what God said (the record of his Son), and it's accounted unto us for righteousness. Those Old Testament saints who believed God were only taken to heaven after Christ's death, burial, and resurrection; therefore, their righteousness (and salvation) is directly tied to the gospel.

 

And I'm sorry to disagree with you, but the visions, signs, and wonders didn't make people believe...or keep them believing...

 

Numbers 14:11
And the LORD said unto Moses, How long will this people provoke me? and how long will it be ere they believe me, for all the signs which I have shewed among them?

 

Deuteronomy 1:31-32
31   And in the wilderness, where thou hast seen how that the LORD thy God bare thee, as a man doth bear his son, in all the way that ye went, until ye came into this place.
32   Yet in this thing ye did not believe the LORD your God,

 

Mr. Blue said that the main subject of the Old Testament was about a coming kingdom. No, the Old Testament is about Jesus through and through.

 

Sadly, those who hold to hyper-dispensationalism stumble at the same stumblingstone as Israel...they sadly can't see the simplicity of salvation by grace through faith in the Old Testament, because they can't systematically connect the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ to the Old Testament...so they try to make works become an element of salvation. The promised redeemer is there...throughout the Old Testament...but people stumble over it.

[MountainChristian]

I know man, right.

 

What is wrong with those people to believe the Bible on this.

 

After all Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Sara, Issac, JacOB all had the OT to study about Jesus' death, burial and Resurrection or did they? No they didn't.

 

What I mean is Moses, Sampson, Rahab and the prophets all had the NT to study of Jesus or did they? No, they didn't.

 

In fact, they had only God who revealed Himself to them personally through many signs, visions, dreams and miracles and they believed God and kept believing God and it was counted to them as righteousness. Make no mistake though folks, it was only the signs, visions, wonders and miracles that kept them believing. There was no indwelling Spirit.

 

It is after all clearly presented in the OT how each of the above were regenerated by the Holy Spirit and sealed until their day of redemption. Look for yourselves, in the OT books of...books of...wait a minute, it ain't in there anywhere. The NT clearly describes that they looked "forward" in hindsight as written chronologically. Those who looked forward to God's promises at the time had no idea of the details, they just believed God when God told them He would provide redemption for all mankind.

 

This overly simplistic view of the Bible is good to keep the lazy, "don't overload me with God's Word" Christians happy and coming I guess. The last thing we want to ever do is make the average Christian think about their faith.

 

This ignorant declaration that folks in the OT were ever born again only feeds the enemies of God.

 

Romans 4:2,3,4,5,6,7,8

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

[prophet1]

Dispensations is a stepping stone back to Rome.
That is why works salvation plays a part in it.

[beameup]

Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called

Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel,

and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:  Ephesians 2:11-12

 

 

It seems that some here would infer that the Apostle Paul is a liar,

and by further implication bring discredit to Paul's Epistles.

[Covenanter]

Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called
Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel,
and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:  Ephesians 2:11-12

 
 
It seems that some here would infer that the Apostle Paul is a liar,
and by further implication bring discredit to Paul's Epistles.

I like the text, but your comment is totally unjustified.

Paul's point is that under the old covenant, there was no Gospel for Gentiles, though a few were recorded as saved. They could be saved by becoming circumcised, which was the prOBlem the Judaizers wrestled with in Acts 15. Not that circumcision ever saved, but it was an expression of faith. Heart circumcision by faith saved. Deuteronomy 30:6

[No Nicolaitans]

 

Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called

Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel,

and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:  Ephesians 2:11-12

 

 

It seems that some here would infer that the Apostle Paul is a liar,

and by further implication bring discredit to Paul's Epistles.

 

 

Okay. You win.

[John81]

All he is winning at is making much of the Word of God of none effect. The entire Scripture, from Genesis to Revelation is about Christ. If man, at any time, could be saved by works, there would never be a need for Christ. If we are to say some me were and will be saved by their works while we of today are saved by grace, then those saved by works could boast of their own efforts and mock us for our easy salvation.

 

Why is this continued false and dangerous teaching allowed to be put forth here? This isn't a side issue or a topic that has no serious implications. This false teaching undermines the entirety of Scripture and the plan of salvation from before the foundation of the world.

[beameup]

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.  

But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; ["alluded to", not fully revealed, Heb 10:1a "a shadow"]

Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe  [i don't see any "works" here at all, no animal sacrifices or circumcision, etc.]

Romans 3:20-22a

 

But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit,

and not in the oldness of the letter. [of the Law]  Romans 7:6

 

Now to him that is of power to establish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ,

according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment

of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the OBedience of faith:  Romans 16:25-26

 

That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and

strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.  Ephesians 212-13

 

Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfill the word of God;

Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:  Colossians 1:25-26

 

Paul, Apostle to the Gentiles

 

Why do you suppose that those of the Synagogue in Antioch followed Paul for over 100 miles to stone him to death?  hahahahahahahahaha

[No Nicolaitans]

Okay...now show where works and/or the law WERE required for salvation.

[DaveW]

Witnessed does not mean "alluded to".
It mean to tell something that you saw.
Your use of that actually says they SAW it, not that it was alluded to.

You particularly point out a definition which is WRONG.