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Posted
Personally' date=' I only see three. Pre-Law, Law, and Grace, with the common denominator throughout being believing and having faith toward God. I know that God did not always work in the same fashion throughout each of these periods but I see no need to break it down further than that. For example, at times in the OT God was not speaking openly to Israel as we see when he first came to Samuel, at other times there would be no miracles for long periods of time, but I don't feel God was working under a different set of rules so to speak, he was just emphasizing different things. In like manner I feel miracles, prophecies, etc. don't happen much today because God does not currently see a need for them, but I wouldn't say they scripturally CAN'T happen today as a more strict dispensationalist might.[/quote']

That's pretty much how I see it, except that we have to get the Trib period in there. Would that fit into the period of grace even though the Holy Spirit is taken?
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Posted
That's pretty much how I see it' date=' except that we have to get the Trib period in there. Would that fit into the period of grace even though the Holy Spirit is taken?[/quote']
What do you mean by the Holy Spirit being taken? My understanding is that the Holy Spirit assists in our salvation -- how then could any be saved during the Tribulation without His presence?

Sealed by the Spirit
Eph. 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph. 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Indwelt by the Spirit
1John 3:24b And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

Assured of salvation by the Spirit
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
1 John 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

Justified by the Spirit
1 Cor. 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.


Or maybe I'm just confused...
Posted

You know, just because the Holy Spirit will be "taken out of the way." doesn't mean he will not be on earth. He will be here, it just means that he will not be stoping the devil like he has been. Indeed, we see:


"Revelation 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them."

"Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,"

Also Christ said that he would be with us always, even to the end of the world. God doesn't leave the tribulation saints alone. Many mighty miracles are done in that time, the Spirit is still moving, but he is working in a different way than he usually does now. It is almost like re-winding to the book of Acts. The church is gone, but God starts to work with the Jewish people again. Those who are saved are still under grace though. Once grace came, you can never go back to the law. :Green

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Posted

Thanks, Seth. That's interesting. I've always wondered about that because of so many verses in scripture - but I've heard lots of preaching and teaching that the Holy Spirit won't indwell believers during the Trib period because He won't be here...and the logical reasoning is He won't be here because of the sin that is allowed to be unleashed (using scripture).

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Posted
I know where I stand in the bible far as sins, repent premillenial, 7 years trib. , and the returning of Christ, Judgment, etc

but What does dispensation mean?


The word dispensation is a good bible word. It simply means "stewardship".

Think about a pharmacy. It dispenses medicine. In the Navy a sick man goes to the dispensary. In other words it deals with people according to their needs or symptoms.

God did not deal with Adam according to the laws given to Moses for example. God does not deal with you or I according to the laws given to Moses. Neither did he do the opposite as many assume.

Adam in the garden, Adam out of the garden. Was there a change in the way God dealt with him? Of course there was. First of all he was expelled. he was denied access as before to certain things, say for example the Tree of Life. As Adam lived out his life outside of the garden, what was it that led him? Were there any written rules or guidelines that the Lord gave to man?

Moving forward. When man began to gather himself in one place, what action did the Lord take? Does God continue to deal with man in this way today? Why or why not?

There are a certainly more than 3 general dealings of man by God. Innocence, Conscience, Human Govt., Promise, Law, Grace and a literal, physical reign for a 1000 years.

That's why it's so important to understand the divisions in the word of God.

Think of it this way. This is simply a general illustration so don't go to seed on it.

If I write a check out to happy Christian for example worth 100 dollars but Seth finds it and takes it to the bank looking to receive the 100, is it a legitimate demand upon the bank by Seth? No. In fact it's not legal at all. The problem lies not with the check itself, but with the "pay to the order" part. It wasn't written out to Seth, but to happychristian. Only she can cash it as it bears her name.
Most of the Bible, I would estimate at least 85%, of it deals with the Kingdom. A literal, physical government that will have Jesus as it's king on a literal, physical throne. The truth is, a very small portion of the scripture is actually written as Church polity and truth.

Many Christians are trying to cash checks drawn on the Bible, but the problem is it wasn't written out to them. We quote All scripture is profitable... but we fail to understand that not all scripture was written to all of us. In some general ways, most see the difference between the OT and the NT. Not too many churches are going to try and offer up a bullock to the Lord next Sunday. lol. But there are some that are going to squeeze Matthew out of context and preach the Beatitudes as a plan of salvation for a sinner today. :smile

What happens is that far too many students see the words "I", "you" and "we" and automatically inject themselves into the passage at hand. Every time I read the words "we" I try not assume it means "us" at Calvary Baptist.

What a good student of the Bible tries to do is to acknowledge things that are different and tries to understand why they are different.

Things different are not the same.

Anyways,

God bless,

Calvary
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Posted

Seth...because of the lack of the Holy Spirit on earth during the Trib, I believe it will be more difficult for ppl to get saved. (The Holy Spirit is here inside believers...after the rapture...where is the Holy Spirit?) However when they do make that decision, they will still receive the Holy Spirit. But the demonic oppression during that time will probably be horrendous.

As far as not all Scripture applying...I do want to mention that God is all powerful and many Scriptures contain double meanings. For instance some passages in Psalms are both lamentations by David AND prophecies of Christ. God can do that. So, I know people go all different lengths with this...but we have to be careful what Scripture we say wasn't written "to us". Obviously the law has been removed, but God tells us that in the NT. In dispensations, I don't believe we use that in order to not apply Scripture in our lives. I see it more as dividing lines in history to describe how God dealt with his (mostly already saved) people.

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Posted
Personally' date=' I only see three. Pre-Law, Law, and Grace, with the common denominator throughout being believing and having faith toward God. I know that God did not always work in the same fashion throughout each of these periods but I see no need to break it down further than that. For example, at times in the OT God was not speaking openly to Israel as we see when he first came to Samuel, at other times there would be no miracles for long periods of time, but I don't feel God was working under a different set of rules so to speak, he was just emphasizing different things. In like manner I feel miracles, prophecies, etc. don't happen much today because God does not currently see a need for them, but I wouldn't say they scripturally CAN'T happen today as a more strict dispensationalist might.[/quote']
A most excellent post.

Not only that but I am convinced of the dispensational theology precisely as Jess laid it all out.

Please examine the following phenomena::::::::

At the changing of each dispensational period to the next one there has alway been a rash of miracles, divine as well as satanic, and cataclysmic occurrences on earth and in the heavans.
  • 1 year later...
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Posted

The Greek word for dispensation simply means "house rules," or economy. Each period/dispensation of man has had different house rules - as time went on and a new dispensation started, there was some overlap of the rules, but each period also added more or different rules.

For example: Innocence. Adam and Eve only had one command they were not to break. Once they fell and the second dispensation started, they had to place their faith in the coming Messiah. Every dispensation after that now has to do the same - even with whatever new rules or revelation God gave them as well.

In the period of Promise, there were different house rules than under the period of the Law. Even today under Grace, we still have to follow the principles of the Law, but God expects some different things of the church in this age. When Christ rules from Jerusalem, there will be some other distinct differences and the world will be living by different rules than we are now. Salvation has always been the same - though the level of knowledge and revelation has changed.

For example, even though God expected Israel to follow the Law as a nation to please Him day by day - they were never saved by the Law. Neither are we today (though we are to use the Law as a schoolmaster to show people their sin and need of a Saviour). We are under different house rules - but are still effected by the house rules of other dispensations. All believers are to live by faith in God's promises; the whole world is still to be run by human government; we still follow the principles of the Law; Christ is to reign in believers' lives - yet He is not physically reigning yet from Jerusalem, and when He does, the world will be different under different rules (such as Zechariah 14 speaks about: if nations refuse to go up to Jerusalem during the feast of Tabernacles, God will withhold rain from them; or Isaiah 11 and 35, where wild animals will not harm humans or eat each other).

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