Why The Hypocrisy?

[Standing Firm In Christ]

The natural man receiveth not...

[AVBibleBeliever]

Study out what a 'bar tune' is.  (By the way, its NOT a tune sung in a bar) 

Ok I will use this term PUB song.  because musick has a bar and a tune.

[AVBibleBeliever]

Salyan, pointed out that MUSICK is subjective.  Subjectivity is kind of like relativism each person makes their own opinion based on their taste and style of MUSICK in which they like.

 

and Other's pointed out it moves emotions.

 

David was the one who used MUSICK in temple service (not worship).  the Ascent Psalms sung as they walked up to Jerusalem were sung without MUSICK.  Except for a few instances of Tabrents (SP?) couple with dancing MUSICK is really not spoken of two much in the Bible.  Jesus sung as recorded in a Gospel writing, and Paul sang as recorded by Luke. And no where in any of the NT is MUSICK taught.

 

Paul taught we were to be of sound mind.  And a sound mind cannot be maintained if it is manipulated by it's emotions.  Ministries that use MUSICK as a main form of Ministering to the Body of Christ (you know what I mean one hour of musical worship and 15 minutes of the teaching of God's word).  You will find two things 1) they are emotionally moved by the music and 2) the people are not of sound mind.  (I think it was Dave Hunt who revealed that loud MUSICK over period of 30 minutes will cause your body to produce overdosing amounts of Endorphine (( your bodies natural Morphine)) to protect the ears and that the jumping and dancing caused an overdose of Adrenalin((your bodies natural speed)), which combined is known in the drug world as a "speedball").  And this is not limited to Charismatic or Pentecostal fellowships.

 

to Happy,

 

Martin Luther did in fact write the Score and 99% of the lyrics to "A Mighty Fortress".  But by his own admission the song was a common song sung in Beer Haus (of which he frequented saying, "God owed him this one") sung by returning soldiers both in the battle field and in the Pub.  There was no score for MUSICK to the original as is was sung not played.  The tone, pitch and tempo of the song was carried over into his song "A Mighty Fortress".  His reasoning was that he could teach the common people doctrine through the song they commonly knew.  Why?  Because though he wanted the Bible to be in the common language many could not read or write German.  Songs they knew were utilized by him to get the doctrines into their hearts.

 

I wrote my first year dissertation on this subject and researched far deeper than many.  so I was not in error when I made the point that he used a Common "bar tune" (now clarified as "Beer Hous" "Pub Song" "Common Song" because bar and tune was mockingly twisted by someone above).  Just because you don't know everything doesn't make it an error.  I shared it and you took it as if it was not true without any research into seeing if in fact I was TRULY in error.

 

I am not saying, Na na na na na---na!  I am pointing out that you and others are quick to weigh out a judgement with unfair scales, balances and weights, in this case  the scale, balances and weights being "full knowledge of the facts".

Edited June 26, 2014 by AVBibleBeliever

[AVBibleBeliever]

The natural man receiveth not...

Did you ever notice the Killroy picture, used in your avatar, he hide behind a wall?

 

Killroy was a man who was a coward and was always hiding from battle.  and when needed to cover his fellow soldiers he was gone.  Hence the term "Killroy was here" it carried the fact that he was here a moment ago but he is not here now.

 

Funny how little we know about the things we use to identify ourselves with.  Like my dog avatar, it wasn't until someone else mentioned it that I knew it was the ugliest dog context winner.

Edited June 26, 2014 by AVBibleBeliever

[ThePilgrim]

Did you ever notice the Killroy picture, used in your avatar, he hide behind a wall?

 

Killroy was a man who was a coward and was always hiding from battle.  and when needed to cover his fellow soldiers he was gone.  Hence the term "Killroy was here" it carried the fact that he was here a moment ago but he is not here now.

 

Funny how little we know about the things we use to identify ourselves with.  Like my dog avatar, it wasn't until someone else mentioned it that I knew it was the ugliest dog context winner.

Not a story of the origination I have heard before.  Here are some more possibilities:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilroy_was_here

 

God bless,

Larry

[Standing Firm In Christ]

I find the story of James Kilroy, the riveter more credible than the soldier.

If there were such a soldier, he no doubt would have been court martialed for dissertion.

Edited June 26, 2014 by Standing Firm In Christ

[Genevanpreacher]

Did you ever notice the Killroy picture, used in your avatar, he hide behind a wall?

 

Killroy was a man who was a coward and was always hiding from battle.  and when needed to cover his fellow soldiers he was gone.  Hence the term "Killroy was here" it carried the fact that he was here a moment ago but he is not here now.

 

Funny how little we know about the things we use to identify ourselves with.  Like my dog avatar, it wasn't until someone else mentioned it that I knew it was the ugliest dog context winner.

 

I thought your avatar was a hairless cat of some kind!

Disturbing. 

(jes' kiddin')

[Miss Daisy]

me too

[AVBibleBeliever]

I find the story of James Kilroy, the riveter more credible than the soldier.

If there were such a soldier, he no doubt would have been court martialed for dissertion.

There was an old man I used to do some free work for in the 90's he told me that they used in in the WWII to describe a man who was a coward. not that the soldiers name was killroy.  I think I got it about as correct as he told me.  I heard the old shipyard story about it but no one has officially verified that one either.  I like the old veterans story on why they used it it may not have originated there but it fit why they used it.

 

This is all I know about WWII my grandfather was shipped off with 35 friends from Chicago for landing in Omaha Beach in France.  Out of the 35 he was the only one who survived.  He never spoke of it.  But one day my brother was talking about paint ball battles he was into back in the early 80's and I watched as my Grandfathers face turned red, one thing we knew was if his face turned red he was angry.  Then all of sudden he sternly told my brother that if he really wanted to go into battle to go join the army.

 

It was my Grandmother who told us about his friends and that landing on Omaha.   She Hailed Mary for 7days she said because she hadn't heard from him.  then a week after the landing, an officer was calling all his friends families but she never got a call so she knew he made it.  It was two weeks before she got a letter saying he was ok.  After that I had a lot more respect for him those who made it deserve that at least.  He died in 91 of cancer, a Roman Catholic.

[AVBibleBeliever]

I thought your avatar was a hairless cat of some kind!

Disturbing. 

(jes' kiddin')

oh no that is the ugliest dog I ever saw that is for sure.  I liked it because it looks like black Yoda.

[AVBibleBeliever]

Back on track.

 

Can we do singing with our voices without instruments as a musical ministry unto the Lord?

 

The best way is to stop arguing over which genre and use what God has given us to praise him as paul and silas did in their prison.

Edited June 27, 2014 by AVBibleBeliever

[Invicta]

Back on track.

 

Can we do singing with our voices without instruments as a musical ministry unto the Lord?

 

The best way is to stop arguing over which genre and use what God has given us to praise him as paul and silas did in their prison.

 

Trouble is, we can't all sing.  We have a couple of men in our church who just cant get anywhere near the right key.  Not that I am all that good.

 

Scottish Presbyterians often  sing unaccompanied and only metrical Psalms.  It can sound quite good.

[Ukulelemike]

Ok I will use this term PUB song.  because musick has a bar and a tune.

My point is, the hymns didn't use music from pubs, bars, taverns, whatever-that was a m isunderstanding of what a 'bar tune" was.

[AVBibleBeliever]

My point is, the hymns didn't use music from pubs, bars, taverns, whatever-that was a m isunderstanding of what a 'bar tune" was.

my point was Luther stated where he got the song from and that he changed the lyrics.  He did indeed write the score too he was the one who put musick other than voices to the song he changed.  So happy was correct also.  But the roots of the song were indeed a returning battle song sung by old German soldiers and later in the beer haus where they and Martin Luther frequented.

[Ukulelemike]

my point was Luther stated where he got the song from and that he changed the lyrics.  He did indeed write the score too he was the one who put musick other than voices to the song he changed.  So happy was correct also.  But the roots of the song were indeed a returning battle song sung by old German soldiers and later in the beer haus where they and Martin Luther frequented.

Be interested in seeing a quote.

 

Here's something, though: (from http://www.av1611.org/question/cqluther.html)

 

"Of the melodies to Luther’s 37 chorales, 15 were composed by Luther himself, 13 came from Latin hymns of Latin service music, 4 were derived from German religious folk songs, 2 had originally been religious pilgrims’ songs, 2 are of unknown origin, and one came directly from a secular folk song." (Data compiled from Squire, pp. 446-447; Leupold, ed., Liturgy and Hymns; and Strodach, ed., Works of Martin Luther, VI)

 

NOTE: The one secular song was from a popular pre-Reformation (not a drinking tune!) secular song, "I Arrived from an Alien Country," and was used as the melody for the Christmas hymn, "From Heaven on High I Come to You", the first stanza Luther patterned after the folk song.
(source: ROBert D. Harrell, Martin Luther, His Music, His Message, p. 18)
 

And here's an interesting FACT — not only that, because of it’s worldly association, Luther later changed the tune!

According to historian Paul Nettl, Luther changed the tune because:

 

 "Luther was embarrassed to hear the tune of his Christmas hymn sung in inns and dance halls." (Paul Nettl, Luther and Music, p. 48)

 

After researching every published work dealing with Luther’s music, ROBert Harrell says point-blank:

Harrell also says:"None of the works dealing with Luther’s music can trace a single melody of his back to a drinking song." (ROBert D. Harrell, Martin Luther, His Music, His Message, p. 34)

 

Furthermore, Martin Luther was very concerned over the words and tunes of his music. It seems OBvious to this writer that using Luther’s music as an historical precedent for using rock and other worldly music in our churches today is completely incongruous with the facts of history.

 

Luther did not use the barroom songs of his day, nor did he use even the worldly music of his day. In fact, he was extremely cautious in protecting the Word of God from any admixture of worldly elements. This can be seen in his words: ‘I wish to compose sacred hymns so that the Word of God may dwell among the people also by means of songs.’"
(ROBert D. Harrell, Martin Luther, His Music, His Message, p. 36)

"But I would like to avoid any new words or the language used at court. [DTM – Is that ever contrary to the CCMers who imitate the rock world’s slang and lingo; like dcTalk’s "Jesus Freak"] In order to be understood by the people, only the simplest and the most common words should be used for singing; at the same time, however, they should be pure and apt; and further, the sense should be clear and as close as possible to the psalm."
(Martin Luther, "To George Spalatin," Letters II, p. 69)