A New Covenant With The House Of Israel, And With The House Of Judah

[DaveW]

Priscilla and Aquila (Acts 18:18) - note: Priscilla is mentioned before her husband's name.

Priscilla and Aquila and Apollos are all Greek names. 

Priscilla and Aquila discipled Apollos. (Acts 18:26)

The fact that Hebrews is "anonomous" should be a signal.

Internal evidence shows a high knowledge of Judiasm, but NOT intimate knowledge of Temple affairs. (Hellenist vs. Palestinian Jew).

This conclusion of authorship does not originate with me, it is due to meticulous scholarship by others.

Alternatively, the authorship of Hebrews very well could be the husband-wife (or wife-husband) team of Priscilla and Aquila.

 

It does not "fit" with Paul's role as the Apostle to the Gentiles.  And Apollos was "schooled" by Priscilla and Aquila.

Twice of the five times their names are mentioned hers is first. Of the three times in Acts 18 only one of them has her first. It means nothing.

Aquila and Apollos are both nominated specifically as Jews - Priscilla is not specifically mentioned as such. She might be a jewess though - it doesn't say she isn't.

No argument - but in that verse Aquila is mentioned first - taking your premise that means that Aquila was the primary.

The fact that it is anonymous is a great signal - that we don't know for certain who wrote it.

I disagree with this being proof of "Hellenistic vs Palestinian".

The BIBLE passage does not say - I don't much care what scholars say - whilst I am not as hard core as some - I do read some other stuff from time to time - in my experience, scholars get a lot of stuff wrong.

I have no prOBlem with the suggestion that it is possible that they wrote it - it is a possible alternative. But you stated it as fact, and then gave no solid evidence to support that assertion. Possible: no prOBlems - definite: no way.

 

Paul's main calling may have been to the Gentiles, but he always went to the Synagogue first - this shows that Paul had regard to the Jewish people.

Further, Paul had a stated great concern and love for his brethren according to the flesh.

 

Rom 9:1  I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, 

Rom 9:2  That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. 

Rom 9:3  For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: 

Rom 9:4  Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; 

Rom 9:5  Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. 

 

It would not be out of character for Paul to write such a letter.

 

I lean towards Paul being the Author, and often will just say "Paul wrote" when talking about Hebrews - which is not really correct - but I think there are some phrasings use of terms that are inconsistent with Paul. I still think that Paul is most likely.

[Covenanter]

I understand Hebrews was attributed to Paul to keep it in the Canon as an Apostolic letter. We don't know the human author, but we do know the divine author.

[Covenanter]

I consider "these last days" are the days when it was written - the Apostolic age that would end with the destruction, and continue as the Gospel age until Jesus comes again.

Literal reading does not allow a future"Jewish" age. It is therefore written for 1st C Jews who had seen, heard and rejected Jesus and the Apostles.

How much more enlightenment could God give them? When we understand that, understand the passages that suggest believers can be lost. They are not believers, but unbelieving Jews who, with full knowledge resisted the Holy Ghost.

Repent NOW or suffer the destruction prophesied is Hebrew's message.

Those last days have passed. That generation passed. We are in Gospel days with no specific information about the Lord's coming. We are to be faithful, serving, watching and praying until he comes.

[AVBibleBeliever]

Hebrews is a Pauline epistle.

Paul did pretty much tell us on how we can tell his writings from false ones or others.

 

2Thess 3:17 The salutation of Paul with mine own hand, which is the token in every epistle: so I write.

 

Hebrews is missing it for sure.

[DaveW]

Paul did pretty much tell us on how we can tell his writings from false ones or others.

2Thess 3:17 The salutation of Paul with mine own hand, which is the token in every epistle: so I write.

Hebrews is missing it for sure.

Hebrews 13
 25  Grace be with you all. Amen.

[AVBibleBeliever]

Hebrews 13
 25  Grace be with you all. Amen.

nice stretch but no cigar.  Read the two places where Paul tells us about his own hand.  it is more than Grace be with you. 

 

first Locate the Salutation Try looking in the beginning of the book that is where the salutation will be found.  He will write about it at the end as proof of his writing even if another man penned it.

 

Compare each introduction of all his epistles to the churches and individuals and then compare it to the beginning of Hebrews. 

 

What was that about "grace be with you always"?

[DaveW]

nice stretch but no cigar.  Read the two places where Paul tells us about his own hand.  it is more than Grace be with you. 

 

first Locate the Salutation Try looking in the beginning of the book that is where the salutation will be found.  He will write about it at the end as proof of his writing even if another man penned it.

 

Compare each introduction of all his epistles to the churches and individuals and then compare it to the beginning of Hebrews. 

 

What was that about "grace be with you always"?

 

And could you then point out to me where he says that in EVERY other epistle attributed to him?

 

The Grace be with you, or some other variant is in almost all the others - I simply assumed that was what you were referring to, as the actual verse you quoted has no phrase common to all Paul's Gospels........

 

And I don't mind not getting a cigar - I don't smoke.......

[Invicta]

You do know that title is not inspired right?

 

Yes, I do, but it suggests that the church knew who had written it.

 

My father wrote a treatise giving reasons why Paul taught it.  If I can find it, I may post it, but it is rather long.

[AVBibleBeliever]

And could you then point out to me where he says that in EVERY other epistle attributed to him?

 

The Grace be with you, or some other variant is in almost all the others - I simply assumed that was what you were referring to, as the actual verse you quoted has no phrase common to all Paul's Gospels........

 

And I don't mind not getting a cigar - I don't smoke.......

As I pointed out Salutations are in the beginning of the letters.  the are the introductory greetings he put in each of his letters where he Identified himself and quite possibly wrote each one himself in his own hand.  He doesn't have to say it in every epistle for it to be true but he did in at least two and we can OBserve his salutations in all his letters.

 

i.e. Roms 1:1-7; 1Cor 1:1-3; 2Cor 1:1-2 Etc Etc Etc found at the beginning of each letter but you wont find that in Hebrews.

[AVBibleBeliever]

 

Paul's main calling may have been to the Gentiles, but he always went to the Synagogue first

 

Not "always" he stopped going to them first at a point.  This does not mean he stopped going to them altogether but rather he no longer prioritized taking the Gospel to them first.  Many believe it was at this point Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. (context and Scriptures already reveal he was the apostle to the Gentile and took a new Gospel ((not the kingdom gospel)) to them). 

 

Some men divide the scriptures of the letters of Paul according to when he stopped going to the Jew first.  It is an interesting division but not necessarily of any real importance as some would claim.

[DaveW]

As I pointed out Salutations are in the beginning of the letters. the are the introductory greetings he put in each of his letters where he Identified himself and quite possibly wrote each one himself in his own hand.

------He doesn't have to say it in every epistle for it to be true but he did in at least two and we can OBserve his salutations in all his letters.-------


i.e. Roms 1:1-7; 1Cor 1:1-3; 2Cor 1:1-2 Etc Etc Etc found at the beginning of each letter but you wont find that in Hebrews.

But your argument is that it is missing from Hebrews - now you say it doesn't have to be in every one?

I don't much care - I have already said that personally I think Paul is most likely, but I see some phrases that I think are inconsistent.

Paul is A POSSIBILITY, but since the Bible shows no clear signs we can not be categorical.

[Genevanpreacher]

I don't know which bible you say uses 'new testament' (only?) from Paul and the author of Hebrews, but this is an interesting part of the discussion.

Ever look up the word 'covenant' in the new testament?

It is in the KJV 20 times. Mostly in Hebrews. Chapter 9 has a bunch of the word 'testament', and chapter 8 has just as much and more of the word 'covenant'.

So I don't get it? Why even go there?

 

As for the perversions, we shouldn't even go there either, they do not matter.

But if you compare the 1560 Geneva Bible to the 1611 KJV, you see an interesting comparison.

 

KJV has the word 'testament' in it 13 times, and the word 'covenant' 20 times.

Geneva has the word 'testament' 25 times, and the word 'covenant' 7 times. (Yet the 'notes' lean only toward 'Covenant Theology' and don't touch the 'Dispensationalist' view.)

 

I looked them both up in these 2 sources of Greek - Nestles 23rd Critical Apparatus (perversion base) and Beza's 1598 Textus Receptus (the Greek underlying the English AV1611.)

They read identical for both words- "diatheke", and this word is used in the Greek for both words 'covenant' and 'testament'.

(Except where the few times the verses experience interlocution by the translators from Greek into English.)

 

So that would kinda make one think that the KJV was for Covenant Theology?

And the Geneva for Dispensationalists? ( even though the translators were 'partial preterists' in the notes?)

 

Just in case nOBody read this before.

I like it. 

[AVBibleBeliever]

 

A quote of Pastor Steve speaking to Invicta

 

"yes the title in many KJV editions says it was Paul who wrote it, but not all editions carry that title.  As DaveW said, the title is not inspired - the text of Scripture is.  And again, this only demonstrates the difficulties the book presents, as we are not even 100% sure that Paul wrote it.  I personally think he did - but very early.  And the title says it all - If Paul did write it (and I think he did), he did not write it to any local church, or the pastor of a local church, as all of his other epistles are.  He wrote it to the Hebrews.

Further, when I said "Pauline Epistles" I defined that as Romans-Philemon, so your point is moot anyway."

Personally I too believe Paul was the author.  He may have wrote it early or later.  while he was not writing to the church that is the Body of Christ, he was in fact writing it under inspiration to the church in the wilderness, the church of the firstborn which is Israel Jewish believers of the kingdom gospel. 

 

Hebrews is a hinge book or as others call it a "transition" book from one age to another,in this case church age to JacOB's trouble.  Acts is also a hinge book going from the preparation for the Kingdom to the church age.  Many a man stumbles in these books because they fail to recognize to whom and the what and the hows of these books.  and that is just saying it simply.  Steve is correct, men will break their theological necks when dealing with the book of Hebrews and usually because they want to wrongly join scripture rather than rightly divide it.  

 

Interestingly enough is that the Kingdom Gospel and the Gospel of Grace which shows the individual forgiveness of sins by the cross and not just the corporate salvation that is seen in the Kingdom Gospel and the books in which that is taught, are joined together in the book of Hebrews.  This has led some men to Identify this as a modified Kingdom Gospel, and to some degree I agree with this OBservation.

 

But again Hebrews is a book that will cause many to err by not knowing the scriptures.    

 

you can find in Matthew Doctrines needed for entering the kingdom age applies to the four gospel books and part of the book of Acts.  In Romans, Doctrines for entering the Church Age which will apply to the epistles of Paul  through Philemon.  Hebrews you find doctrine for entering the Great Tribulation and carry over unto Revelation 19.

 

Each one of these hinge books sets up the doctrine to be followed for the age in which they represent.

[AVBibleBeliever]

But your argument is that it is missing from Hebrews - now you say it doesn't have to be in every one?

I don't much care - I have already said that personally I think Paul is most likely, but I see some phrases that I think are inconsistent.

Paul is A POSSIBILITY, but since the Bible shows no clear signs we can not be categorical.

I think you just mis understood what I was saying.  what does not need to be in everyone is his "stating that his salutations are in all his epistles".   1Co 16:21 The salutation of me Paul with mine own hand.  2Th 3:17 The salutation of Paul with mine own hand, which is the token in every epistle: so I write.

 

While Hebrews does not have a salutation that is indicative of Paul.  I personally think he wrote it but for other reasons and I feel he does not want to identify himself with it as it is for a later time and not the church age.

[DaveW]

I think you just mis understood what I was saying. what does not need to be in everyone is his "stating that his salutations are in all his epistles". 1Co 16:21 The salutation of me Paul with mine own hand. 2Th 3:17 The salutation of Paul with mine own hand, which is the token in every epistle: so I write.

While Hebrews does not have a salutation that is indicative of Paul. I personally think he wrote it but for other reasons and I feel he does not want to identify himself with it as it is for a later time and not the church age.

Ahhh OK.

You see I thought you were referring to:
2 Thes 3
 17  The salutation of Paul with mine own hand, which is the token in every epistle: so I write.

 18  The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

Referring to the closing remark which he does write in every Epistle in some form. All - I think - his letters have this or a variation of this.

But Peter also uses it on occasion.

And that is in Hebrews.

crossed wires......