How Old Is The Earth

[paid4]

But I made no claims of evolution or pre-adamic life.

 

You assume their is no light before there was verse 3.  But yet God is light and light of verse three is not natural light but supernatural it may even be God the Son who claimed to be the light and was testified to be the light by John the apostle.

 

IN God's abode (the third heaven) there is only light, the only reason we are separated from his abode is because he made a firmament the only day he does not say that what he made was good was day two.  That firmament not only separated the waters but it also keeps darkness from entering into God's abode (the third heaven).

 

I made no claim of millions of years of times either.  I believe it was a very short period of time. I propose that a testing that had to do with God and his creations before man, being the angels, cherubs, cherubims and seraphims took place and it had something to do with this earth.  And that the purpose of this earth was for the exaltation of the wisdom of God, His Son, the Word who later became man in the person of Jesus Christ.

 

In reality I still believe that the earth is not much more than 6000 years and not quite 7000.  The only beings that would have been on the earth would have been the anointed cherub and his angels.  I never said anything about animals before Genesis 1:2 or humanoid race.

 

I surmised a scenario loosely based on what scripture does reveal about the fall of Lucifer and a throne he was trying to exalt and it wasn't the seat in the presence of God.

 

The thing is many will follow mens teaching that the devil and his angels were created, tested and fell during the 6 day work of God in Genesis one without even one thread of Bible evidence to support that view.  Yet will scoff at my view which has more credence than theirs which would have you believe there was an ice shield around the earth for a 1000 years until the flood.  And would have you believe the ice melted and flooded the earth at the time of Noah.  Before you would believe that the waters that had been created at the time of the earth had left their ordained place in fountains and flooded the earth.

I was just posting the dinosaur thing in reference to what some people believe. As for light you're thinking in 3 dimensions. Remember when heaven was opened during the baptism of Jesus and the other times that heaven was "opened".  The question was how old is the earth. God is eternal, past and future,  so the light I understand. As for the flood, that was a rain event. Why else would God put the rainbow in the sky. Just a question between me and you, if a mist came up from the ground the how did God form Adam from the "dust" of the ground. Off topic but the Holy Spirit showed me this a while back and I thought I'd share. Gen. 2:8,15 and Gen. 3:23 Do you think Eden was in heaven? And is that why no one can find any evidence of it? I know the verses about the rivers and where on the map that puts it but what about the tree of life protected be the cherubim with the flaming sword? I think Genesis is my favorite book in the Bible. Is God good or what? He didn't have to do any of this much less give His life for us.

[Ukulelemike]

The Earth became a wasteland, empty and chaotic.

hayah tohuw bohuw

The earth "Came about" formless and void. In other words, God created it that way.

 

See, the very definitions you give, give credence to the translation in Genesis, but you choose to find other words and completley change it. Upon what do you base reading it the way you do? See, those words can have the various different meanings, not all of them. It wasn;'t a chaotic wasteland, it was without form, (because God had not yet completed forming it), and void, (because God had not yet filled it.). Unfilled and unformed, without form and void.

[beameup]

The statement hayah tohuw bohuw is paradoxical.

In order for Satan and his fallen angels to be "cast out of heaven",

they had to have somewhere to be "cast to".  The logical conclusion

is that God created the heavens and the earth BEFORE Satan fell.

 

easy peasy

 

The earth fell under great darkness and chaos when Satan fell.

 

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When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?  Job 38:7

bene ha'elohim = sons of God = angels

 

There was a time when ALL the angels shouted for joy.  It was BEFORE the fall of Satan.  It was at the original creation of the universe (Gen 1:1)

Edited February 20, 2014 by beameup

[Ukulelemike]

I was just posting the dinosaur thing in reference to what some people believe. As for light you're thinking in 3 dimensions. Remember when heaven was opened during the baptism of Jesus and the other times that heaven was "opened".  The question was how old is the earth. God is eternal, past and future,  so the light I understand. As for the flood, that was a rain event. Why else would God put the rainbow in the sky. Just a question between me and you, if a mist came up from the ground the how did God form Adam from the "dust" of the ground. Because He made a nice dry spot. It doesn't mean the ground was wet all the time, nor does it necessarily mean that the mist was active yet in that place. He was not created in Eden God isn't limited by His creation. Off topic but the Holy Spirit showed me this a while back and I thought I'd share. Gen. 2:8,15 and Gen. 3:23 Do you think Eden was in heaven? And is that why no one can find any evidence of it?There is no evidence of it because it was destroyed in the flood. And if it was in Heaven, does that mean that God created man on earth, then took him to heaven to live until he fell, then took him back to earth? If so, why protect it by a cherub with a flaming sword?  I know the verses about the rivers and where on the map that puts it but what about the tree of life protected be the cherubim with the flaming sword? I think Genesis is my favorite book in the Bible. Is God good or what? He didn't have to do any of this much less give His life for us. Absolutely God is good! And it shows His goodness that He gave us such a brain, so as to be able to speculate on the hidden things, which there is nothing wrong with, so long as we don't create doctrine where there is none.

God is good-all things were creqated for His pleasure, yet it pleased Him to give us a planet and a sky and stars and such to please us. HE doesn't need them, but He gave them to us, and even on this cursed earth, it has such beauty, and it shows even more His great love for us! I live in the desert, and am yet always amazed at the life and the beauty even here.

[Ukulelemike]

The statement hayah tohuw bohuw is paradoxical.

In order for Satan and his fallen angels to be "cast out of heaven",

they had to have somewhere to be "cast to".  The logical conclusion

is that God created the heavens and the earth BEFORE Satan fell.

 

easy peasy

 

The earth fell under great darkness and chaos when Satan fell.

NO, the earth fell under darkness and chaos when men fell. But I agree that all was created before Lucifer fell. Before that, after God created, he call ALL His creation "very good". Could this be if there were already some of His creation fallen, Lucifer now Satan, and chaos already being in place? I think not.

[beameup]

When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? Job 38:7

bene ha'elohim = sons of God = angels

 

There was a time when ALL the angels shouted for joy. It was BEFORE the fall of Satan. It was at the original creation of the universe (Gen 1:1)

When Satan and his angels fell, great darkness and chaos was upon the earth. hayah tohuw bohuw

 

BTW, there are still areas of "great darkness and chaos" INSIDE the earth.  They are referred to such as "Tartarus" (2Pet 2:4), Hades and Hell.

Edited February 20, 2014 by beameup

[heartstrings]

Angels cannot be sons of God "unto which of the angels saith he at any time thou art my son, this day have I begotten thee"

Sons of God are believers.....as in "brethren, now are we the sons of God" and ''as many as received him to them gave he power to become the sons of God".

[beameup]

Angels cannot be sons of God "unto which of the angels saith he at any time thou art my son, this day have I begotten thee"

Sons of God are believers.....as in "brethren, now are we the sons of God" and ''as many as received him to them gave he power to become the sons of God".

bene ha'elohim always refers to angels in the Old Testament.

When were "believers" present at the creation of the universe? (re: Job 38)

Edited February 20, 2014 by beameup

[prophet1]

bene ha'elohim always refers to angels in the Old Testament.
When were "believers" present at the creation of the universe? (re: Job 38)

Your question is a logical one.
This, however, makes your answer wrong:

Heb 1:5
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?


Anishinaabe

[beameup]

Your question is a logical one.
This, however, makes your answer wrong:

Heb 1:5
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?


Anishinaabe

It's not a question, it is a fact.  The HEBREW bene ha'elohim always refers to angels in the Old Testament.

The New Testament is written in Koine Greek.  Perhaps looking into another language will bring you insight into this.

 

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Job 38:4-8

Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God [bene ha'elohim] shouted for joy?

Edited February 20, 2014 by beameup

[Ukulelemike]

 

It's not a question, it is a fact.  The HEBREW bene ha'elohim always refers to angels in the Old Testament.

The New Testament is written in Koine Greek.  Perhaps looking into another language will bring you insight into this.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Job 38:4-8

Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God [bene ha'elohim] shouted for joy?

 

I disagree. IN Genesis, the sons of God that married the daughters of men can't be angels because angels dont marry and cannot have children, because they were not created to do so. The sons of God in Job who presented themselves before the Lord could easily be humans who followed the Lord, presenting themselves before Him, as the Hebrew men were to do "And ye have this day rejected your God, who himself saved you out of all your adversities and your tribulations; and ye have said unto him, Nay, but set a king over us. Now therefore present yourselves before the LORD by your tribes, and by your thousands." (1Sam 10:19) Men can present themselve before the Lord.

 

Another: Joshuah 24:1--"And Joshua gathered all the tribes of Israel to Shechem, and called for the elders of Israel, and for their heads, and for their judges, and for their officers; and they presented themselves before God."

 

As for the sons of God who shouted? This could be angels, speaking of the fact that they were directly created by God, as Adam was, and was called the son of God.

[heartstrings]

bene ha'elohim always refers to angels in the Old Testament.

When were "believers" present at the creation of the universe? (re: Job 38)

Heb 1:5
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

 

"at any time" includes the beginning of time. Only Jesus Christ and believers are sons of God.

[paid4]

God is good-all things were creqated for His pleasure, yet it pleased Him to give us a planet and a sky and stars and such to please us. HE doesn't need them, but He gave them to us, and even on this cursed earth, it has such beauty, and it shows even more His great love for us! I live in the desert, and am yet always amazed at the life and the beauty even here.

No doctrine pushing here. I just love to read scripture and try to put myself there. Simple questions nothing more. I love to close my eyes and picture God and his glory and the things of the bible. Especially in creation passages, the gospels, and revelation. I don't tell these things much. I guess because we're online I'm more comfortable sharing things. Love having a place to vent and share ideas with the option to just turn it off when I feel I'm being chastised. Try that face to face.....makes for an awkward encounter next time.

[beameup]

I disagree. IN Genesis, the sons of God that married the daughters of men can't be angels because angels dont marry and cannot have children, because they were not created to do so. The sons of God in Job who presented themselves before the Lord could easily be humans who followed the Lord, presenting themselves before Him, as the Hebrew men were to do "And ye have this day rejected your God, who himself saved you out of all your adversities and your tribulations; and ye have said unto him, Nay, but set a king over us. Now therefore present yourselves before the LORD by your tribes, and by your thousands." (1Sam 10:19) Men can present themselve before the Lord.

 

 

 

 

You are "half right", angels in heaven do not marry. Nowhere in scripture does it say that "angels cannot have children".

 Angels "that left their first estate" and came to earth clearly cohabited with women (daughters of adam).  Sometimes 

we "assume".    From Jude 6 and 2 Peter 2, we can see that these angels came to earth and cohabited, and thus 

are reserved for special judgement in Tartarus (inside the earth).  The "Sethite" doctrine was cooked-up by the Augustinian Catholics.

bene ha'elohim is consistent in the Hebrew Old Testament.

Edited February 20, 2014 by beameup

[heartstrings]

You are "half right", angels in heaven do not marry. Nowhere in scripture does it say that "angels cannot have children".

 Angels "that left their first estate" and came to earth clearly cohabited with women (daughters of adam).  Sometimes 

we "assume".    From Jude 6 and 2 Peter 2, we can see that these angels came to earth and cohabited, and thus 

are reserved for special judgement in Tartarus (inside the earth).  The "Sethite" doctrine was cooked-up by the Augustinian Catholics.

bene ha'elohim is consistent in the Hebrew Old Testament.

The Bible says they took WIVES; you don't cohabit a wife....you get married