How Do You Feel About Stepping Out Of The Box Of Traditional Doctrine?

[Genevanpreacher]

No. Many didn't.

[candlelight]

Geneva asked my concerns with KJV doctrines and I first,wanted to nail down and define what is or isn't "doctrine". So another example I would offer would be the doctrine that women are to be silent, along,with the other examples I listed in my previous post

 

Are you referring to me or are you talking about your wife?

[Donillo]

Are you referring to me or are you talking about your wife?

Hmm, do mean about women being silent??? I am referring to the IFB doctrine that women must remain silent. Certainly not that you should.

[candlelight]

Hmm, do mean about women being silent??? I am referring to the IFB doctrine that women must remain silent. Certainly not that you should.

 

Thank you for clarifying, Donillo.  Your Biblical reference is what Paul told the church.  Since Online Baptist is not a church, I am not silent.  

[Donillo]

Thank you for clarifying, Donillo. Your Biblical reference is what Paul told the church. Since Online Baptist is not a church, I am not silent.

yes, Paul did say that. But in 1 Corinthians 11 he mentions women praying and prophesying but they should cover their head. Our church goes to great lengths to to keep women silent by not even allowing them to read scripture or pray in a worship setting.
God gives spiritual gifts to both men and women. I'm just saying that women should be allowed to use their gifts in a worship setting.

[candlelight]

yes, Paul did say that. But in 1 Corinthians 11 he mentions women praying and prophesying but they should cover their head. Our church goes to great lengths to to keep women silent by not even allowing them to read scripture or pray in a worship setting.
God gives spiritual gifts to both men and women. I'm just saying that women should be allowed to use their gifts in a worship setting.

 Hmmm.  And, this is an IFB church?  HappyChristian, one of the mods on this site, has a great article that says Christian women do not need to cover their heads.  It is Biblical.  You may want to private message her for the article.  When you talk about "reading scripture" and "praying" are you saying privately?  If so, that is not Biblical.  Yes, spiritual gifts are given to both men and women.

[swathdiver]

This last point is an important one. For hundreds of years since the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ, believers didn't have a personal copy of the bible, much less the KJV. If it was essential for believers to have one how could they walk in daily fellowship with God? Why would God make a requirement that could not be met until the 17th century? It is a fallacy that the bible alone is all that's necessary to guide a Christian. To believe that negates the very purpose of Christ's death and sending us the Holy spirit. In the beginning was The Word and the Word was with god and the Word was god. That is Jesus, not the book. Yes, the bible is holy scripture and it tells us about Jesus and the redemption story. But Jesus before he departed promised to send the holy spirit, not the completed canon.

 

First, in times of old the Christians met far more often than we do today.  Second, they were smarter than we are, they memorized or just simply learned the scriptures that were held by their local church.  It's also quite possible that individuals even had copies of individual books.  

 

From your other statements, God's Word (Jesus) is not enough for you and that's too bad.

 

Hi John,

The Free Methodist church is a holiness denomination and is basically Wesleyan in doctrine. They parted ways with the Methodists in the late 1800's due to their liberal tendencies. They have the same prohibitions regarding smoking, drinking, etc...as does IFB, but are not KJV only. They believe in entire sanctification and place more emphasis on the Holy Spirit. They don't separate off from the rest of the Christian churches and do collaborate with them. They allow women to preach and teach (men). They have a hierarchy. They allow more freedom in the Spirit and the pastors are not authoritarian, etc....

 

Sound like carnal Burger King Christians to me.  Run, run, run away from that group, stay where you are and learn.  Them Free Methodists want to have God their way, not the Bible's way.

 

Another thing... Our IFB Church practices censorship. We have a library and there is a list of prohibited books in the Christian genre. I was surprised (although I shouldn't be) to find among them Jan Karon's books. I've read a few of them and the priest character (Episcopal ) seems like a Godly man who genuinely cares for souls to be saved. I thought it ridiculous just because the main character in her books is an Episcopal priest that a church would not allow it in their library.

 

You call it censorship, the members call it separation.  The purpose of the doctrine of separation is to protect the Christian from evil which includes false doctrines.  An Episcopal Priest is very likely an unsaved person, or else they wouldn't be an Episcopal priest for long.

 

I have a Geneva Bible, it's been some time since I've read it much because the print is so small, but I don't recall that many big differences between the Geneva and KJ.

 

I almost fell for that Geneva bible trap too a few years ago.  Thankfully, I kept praying and reading.  The Geneva bible is about 80% same in wording as the KJV.  That 20% makes all the difference though.  It's based on the TR but was number six and Psalms 12:7 it is not.

[Donillo]

From your other statements, God's Word (Jesus) is not enough for you and that's too bad.

Sound like carnal Burger King Christians to me. Run, run, run away from that group, stay where you are and learn. Them Free Methodists want to have God their way, not the Bible's way.
l.

you're entitled to your opinion

[Donillo]

First, in times of old the Christians met far more often than we do today. Second, they were smarter than we are, they memorized or just simply learned the scriptures that were held by their local church. It's also quite possible that individuals even had copies of individual books.

Sound like carnal Burger King Christians to me. Run, run, run away from that group, stay where you are and learn. Them Free Methodists want to have God their way, not the Bible's way.
.

Dear Swathdiver, I love those Free Methodists who told me about Jesus and prayed for me. Their prayers brought me to salvation and I was delivered from cigarettes and alcohol and given new life by the power of the Holy Spirit not by memorizing Scripture.

[HappyChristian]

It's interesting, Donillo - Free Methodists in Ireland are very like IFB here, doctrinally. I wonder why the difference.

[Miss Daisy]

I attended a Free Methodist church for about 1.5 years about 18 years ago. I was very involved so I can tell you that the people I was involved with were very conservative. We had our daughter baptized by the pastor only at our insistence because my husband and I were just coming out of Catholicism. The pastor actually just wanted to dedicate her. I went to Bible studies, etc. and learned that most Free Methodist churches are more conservative and don't hold to most regular more liberal doctrines of the Methodist church.

[Genevanpreacher]

That Psalm 12:7 thing is interestin'.

 

It never once refers to versions of the scriptures. And I find that fact a curiosity. Yes it refers to his words, I know that.

 

I have heard that for most of my spiritual life as an IFB, and I question 'where' such a thing started. How could Gods words be pure, if he had to 'purify' it. It wasn't the words that needed to be 'purified' but it showed 'how' pure Gods words were. It was the silver that needed to be purified, not Gods word. From Davids time to now it is perfect, not only since 1611.

 

So, if it was 'purified', and according to this belief, David stated that so, would it not have been 'purified' BEFORE David wrote this section of his Psalm 12? If so, where does it make it a future situation? You know, 1526-1611?

 

Just my opinion, sorta.

 

There is zero evidence that this section of a Psalm of David referred to seven versions of the Holy scriptures.

 

Once again, not wanting to be an offense, but there it is.

 

Read the WHOLE Psalm 12.

[prophet1]

Yes Psalm 12:7 is a comparison. Pure silver was achieved by a process, the result of which was like the words of God. It is a simile.
Pure silver is like pure words.

We don't need any nonsense doctrine to know that the KJB is pure.

Anishinaabe

[Genevanpreacher]

Yet you don't bother answering the questions?

 

It's all just 'nonsense', and that's it?

 

The Psalm known as the 12th one, has a thing to say, and it's not a simile. Someone made it that. But where does God say it is?

 

Nonsense is equal to 'not answering a matter before you hear it'. (Proverbs 18:13)

 

You have made up your mind before considering the facts of what that Psalm is discussing.

 

Read the 12th Psalm. 

 

Offense comes by being offended in the ignorance of others not wanting to consider obvious truth. I guess that goes both ways.

 

Peace.

[wretched]

Just a little 'spot' of info:  Alex Campbell used a KJV to prove, in words from the text, that there is such a thing as baptismal regeneration. A few verses stuck out in his teachings. Acts 2:38 of course, along with Acts 22:16, Mark 16:16, Titus 3:5, and 1 Peter 3:20,21.

 

You may look these verses up and compare them to 'what' we believe, and try to explain them by saying 'that's just not what they mean' til you are blue in the face.

But the text says so, in the KJV.

 

I do not believe such 'hogwash', excuse the term if it bothers you. Christians down through the centuries NEVER believed many of the doctrines of the modern churches of today.

 

Such subjects as 'working out your own salvation', 'baptizing for the dead', 'speaking in tongues', 'baptism saves you', etc., that are in the KJV, but not in one other English Bible that lead more people to the Lord and salvation than any other English Bible, including the KJV.

 

Yes, these are 'doctrines' in, 'other than Baptist', churches. Yet we Baptists use the same text they used to start all the false doctrines of the Church of Christ/Christian, Seventh Day Adventists, Jehovah Witnesses, Church of God, and all Charismatic churches since the 1700's. 

 

We know what to believe, by the testimony of Baptist preachers down through the centuries, their sermons, teachings and family info on what they believed and taught. Using scriptures that taught and SAID in words the same things. And when there were no written pages that were available that were accurate, they used what their memory remembered. Such teaching that followed REAL preachers, even when they used inaccurate 'versions'. 

 

The 1560 Geneva Bible does not read these verses like the KJV.

 

Later I will quote these subjects from it. And if you don't see any difference in the wording being more valuable, so be it. I don't condemn anyone, as I wish not to be condemned either.

 

Also, the line that - 'God put away that bible along time ago' - doesn't carry ANY weight, when it comes to believing what is real truth.

 

It is available online for free, and is in print.

 

And, most men of God have preached in Churches, since 1611, the same doctrines taught in the 1560 Geneva Bible, using their KJV. But saying they 'discerned it' in their KJV.

 

Well, I read it.

 

I fully understand the point of wanting to understand the Word out of the traditions box..believe me, I do. I don't read, study or endorse anything from anyone except the Bible.

 

I have 1560, 87 and 99 Geneva's and see no doctrinal difference in the passages you sited compared to the KJB. In all but one of the passages you site, there isn't even a textual difference. Seems your Campbell fella and you go through allot of trouble to contrast almost nothing. Why is the point you are making (not what is the point)?