Churches That Are Against Having Drums In The Music...

[Left the Bldg]

Well, as I said, CCM discussion has been moved to another thread.  So, let's not discuss that anymore here.

Please direct me how to find this new thread relating to CCM.  I looked in recently discussed forums but couldn't find the topic.  Thanks.

[Left the Bldg]

Please direct me how to find this new thread relating to CCM.  I looked in recently discussed forums but couldn't find the topic.  Thanks.

P.S. I wrote that before I read you were starting a new thread.

[HappyChristian]

Here you go.   Hope it's worth the read. 

[JerryNumbers]

Again, this is about drums not salvation.  The Holy Spirit is the One that speaks to a person's conscience and convicts them.  Therefore, it is inappropriate for you to say a straight "no" as if you are the one giving a final answer.  It may be no for you but not for others.  And until someone shows me something Biblically that says otherwise, it is up to the individual to decide what the Holy Spirit is telling them.  Only God knows the heart.

 

No, its about the sacrifices we are willing to make for the sake of our Savor, we do not live to self, & many refuse to let go of the world for the sake of Christ & become a stumbling block to the weak Christians & the lost.

 

Mt 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

[DaveW]

It appears that you are looking for a concise statement along the lines of "Thou shalt not use drums in church."

You won't find such a thing - just as you won't find "Thou shalt not speed" and "Thou shalt not use heroin."

I have shown that at least one form of music that clearly used drum and cymbals in a particular way was associated with false worship and was not honouring to God.

That is the essential point in this.
Drums themselves are not wrong but the vast majority of how they are used today certainly is not God honouring.

[Alimantado]

My church strictly sings hymns with either a piano or organ.  I prefer praise and worship music.

 

Interesting. For me it's the other way around. My church almost exclusively favours modern worship music and I dislike almost all of it. I wish we sung hymns with a piano or organ.

 

I see it like this: all week I'm forced to listen to boring, derivitive, hackneyed music from the likes Celine Dion, Phil Collins, R Kelly, Bryan Adams etc because it is piped into public buildings, shops, lifts, even places of work. So at church, when I'm singing in collective worship, the last thing that's going to help me to focus on God is more of that kind of music. Yet that is just what my church goes for.

[Left the Bldg]

No, its about the sacrifices we are willing to make for the sake of our Savor, we do not live to self, & many refuse to let go of the world for the sake of Christ & become a stumbling block to the weak Christians & the lost.

 

Mt 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

So when I'm writing, I'm assuming I'm writing to saved people on this forum.  What does a sacrifice look like in the practical sense?  Giving ourselves to God and give up what the world has to offer.  What the world offers can be summed up in these three things.  1) Lust of the flesh which is everything that appeals to our appetites and involves excessive desires.  That can be food, drink, sex or anything that satisfies our physical needs.  2) Lust of the eyes which is mostly materialism, coveting, envying. 3) The pride of life which is defined by our own ambitions.  1 John 2:15-16.  So now we need to define what it means for a Christian to deny oneself.  It means to put our will aside and let God's will be done.  Example, Jesus had to rebuke Peter because Peter did not want Jesus to die which was necessary for our salvation.  He wanted his own way not the will of God in that circumstance.  Now what does it mean to take up His cross?  It means suffering hardships for the Lord but it's more than that.  He gave his life for us so now we have to give our whole life to him.  How do we give our life to Him?  By pleasing Him.  How do we please Him?  By serving Him.  How do we serve Him?  By denying ourselves?  By allowing God's will be done in our lives and not our own.  Another example, the Jews wanted to continue following the Mosaic law of salvation through works.  They refused to give up their old way of thinking how to please God and understand salvation through Jesus and realize that there was a better way.   Taking up our cross is something we do daily and is the process of sanctification and discovering God's standard. Taking up our cross is a constant reminder of Jesus' work on the cross.  It's a change in mind and behavior toward God.  It doesn't mean we have to give up things we like.  I like music.  Different varieties.  I like drums.  God made us all different with different likes and dislikes.  Would a person be dishonoring God for playing a drum if in their heart they are doing it unto God?  I like CCM.  It doesn't make me desire anything the world has to offer.  It doesn't make me covet, envy, drink or have sex excessively or be prideful or materialistic.  So how does the scripture you referred to relate to CCM or drums?  It seems the main argument on this thread is that CCM sounds like the world's music and whoever listens to it is conforming to this world and not renewing their mind.  That's not good enough for me and scripture is being taken out of context to support this.  If that scripture is going to be used that way then it can apply to every single thing we do that the world also does.  When I refer to CCM I'm referring to the genre not any particular artist or lyrics.  Some are good and some may not be so good.  Contemporary just means modern or new.  Our hymns were considered contemporary at the time they were written.  I'm still not getting how songs like "Redeemed", "Overcomer", "Your Grace Finds Me" is a reflection of the world by some on this forum.  The lyrics are edifying, encouraging and uplifting.  It's better than secular music which promote sex, drugs and violence. 

[Left the Bldg]

It appears that you are looking for a concise statement along the lines of "Thou shalt not use drums in church."

You won't find such a thing - just as you won't find "Thou shalt not speed" and "Thou shalt not use heroin."

I have shown that at least one form of music that clearly used drum and cymbals in a particular way was associated with false worship and was not honouring to God.

That is the essential point in this.
Drums themselves are not wrong but the vast majority of how they are used today certainly is not God honouring.

No.  I'm trying to understand how drums can be dishonoring to God.  I keep getting the same scripture about not conforming to the world.  Using a drum doesn't mean you're conforming to the world.  That scripture keeps being taken out of context.  So because someone, somewhere used the drum in false worship that means now it can't be used to honor God?  We originated out of a sinful man Adam but now we're renewed through Christ.  My point in that is who cares where it originated from?   

[DaveW]

The passage I quoted has a definite indication. The particular music was mistaken for fighting of the time.
the beating of club upon armour which at the time was mostly leathern type would give forth a dull thudding sound. The clash of sword against sword would give a sharp clanging and ringing sound. Shouts of anger and screams of pain.

There are absolutely styles of music - even claimed Christian music - which conform to that description.

Having said that I will AGAIN state that it is not the instrument but the way it is used.

And it is plainly obvious that some instruments lend themselves more easily to abuse in this way.
personally I prefer to err on the side of safety than to play on the edge of sin.

[heartstrings]

So when I'm writing, I'm assuming I'm writing to saved people on this forum.  What does a sacrifice look like in the practical sense?  Giving ourselves to God and give up what the world has to offer.  What the world offers can be summed up in these three things.  1) Lust of the flesh which is everything that appeals to our appetites and involves excessive desires.  That can be food, drink, sex or anything that satisfies our physical needs.  2) Lust of the eyes which is mostly materialism, coveting, envying. 3) The pride of life which is defined by our own ambitions.  1 John 2:15-16.  So now we need to define what it means for a Christian to deny oneself.  It means to put our will aside and let God's will be done.  Example, Jesus had to rebuke Peter because Peter did not want Jesus to die which was necessary for our salvation.  He wanted his own way not the will of God in that circumstance.  Now what does it mean to take up His cross?  It means suffering hardships for the Lord but it's more than that.  He gave his life for us so now we have to give our whole life to him.  How do we give our life to Him?  By pleasing Him.  How do we please Him?  By serving Him.  How do we serve Him?  By denying ourselves?  By allowing God's will be done in our lives and not our own.  Another example, the Jews wanted to continue following the Mosaic law of salvation through works.  They refused to give up their old way of thinking how to please God and understand salvation through Jesus and realize that there was a better way.   Taking up our cross is something we do daily and is the process of sanctification and discovering God's standard. Taking up our cross is a constant reminder of Jesus' work on the cross.  It's a change in mind and behavior toward God.  It doesn't mean we have to give up things we like.  I like music.  Different varieties.  I like drums.  God made us all different with different likes and dislikes.  Would a person be dishonoring God for playing a drum if in their heart they are doing it unto God?  I like CCM.  It doesn't make me desire anything the world has to offer.  It doesn't make me covet, envy, drink or have sex excessively or be prideful or materialistic.  So how does the scripture you referred to relate to CCM or drums?  It seems the main argument on this thread is that CCM sounds like the world's music and whoever listens to it is conforming to this world and not renewing their mind.  That's not good enough for me and scripture is being taken out of context to support this.  If that scripture is going to be used that way then it can apply to every single thing we do that the world also does.  When I refer to CCM I'm referring to the genre not any particular artist or lyrics.  Some are good and some may not be so good.  Contemporary just means modern or new.  Our hymns were considered contemporary at the time they were written.  I'm still not getting how songs like "Redeemed", "Overcomer", "Your Grace Finds Me" is a reflection of the world by some on this forum.  The lyrics are edifying, encouraging and uplifting.  It's better than secular music which promote sex, drugs and violence. 

tip

If you write in shorter paragraphs, people will be more likely to read your post.

[Left the Bldg]

tip

If you write in shorter paragraphs, people will be more likely to read your post.

Thanks and wow.  Whoever is interested will read it.  I wonder if the Corinthians told that to Paul when he wrote his first letter to them that was 16 chapters long. 

[Alimantado]

A quick drum roll can be very useful for pointing out that a punchline has just been delivered, especially when it's one of my jokes.

[Left the Bldg]

A quick drum roll can be very useful for pointing out that a punchline has just been delivered, especially when it's one of my jokes.

We can't use drums.  Ba-dum-tsh!

[JerryNumbers]

So when I'm writing, I'm assuming I'm writing to saved people on this forum.  What does a sacrifice look like in the practical sense?  Giving ourselves to God and give up what the world has to offer.  What the world offers can be summed up in these three things.  1) Lust of the flesh which is everything that appeals to our appetites and involves excessive desires.  That can be food, drink, sex or anything that satisfies our physical needs.  2) Lust of the eyes which is mostly materialism, coveting, envying. 3) The pride of life which is defined by our own ambitions.  1 John 2:15-16.  So now we need to define what it means for a Christian to deny oneself.  It means to put our will aside and let God's will be done.  Example, Jesus had to rebuke Peter because Peter did not want Jesus to die which was necessary for our salvation.  He wanted his own way not the will of God in that circumstance.  Now what does it mean to take up His cross?  It means suffering hardships for the Lord but it's more than that.  He gave his life for us so now we have to give our whole life to him.  How do we give our life to Him?  By pleasing Him.  How do we please Him?  By serving Him.  How do we serve Him?  By denying ourselves?  By allowing God's will be done in our lives and not our own.  Another example, the Jews wanted to continue following the Mosaic law of salvation through works.  They refused to give up their old way of thinking how to please God and understand salvation through Jesus and realize that there was a better way.   Taking up our cross is something we do daily and is the process of sanctification and discovering God's standard. Taking up our cross is a constant reminder of Jesus' work on the cross.  It's a change in mind and behavior toward God.  It doesn't mean we have to give up things we like.  I like music.  Different varieties.  I like drums.  God made us all different with different likes and dislikes.  Would a person be dishonoring God for playing a drum if in their heart they are doing it unto God?  I like CCM.  It doesn't make me desire anything the world has to offer.  It doesn't make me covet, envy, drink or have sex excessively or be prideful or materialistic.  So how does the scripture you referred to relate to CCM or drums?  It seems the main argument on this thread is that CCM sounds like the world's music and whoever listens to it is conforming to this world and not renewing their mind.  That's not good enough for me and scripture is being taken out of context to support this.  If that scripture is going to be used that way then it can apply to every single thing we do that the world also does.  When I refer to CCM I'm referring to the genre not any particular artist or lyrics.  Some are good and some may not be so good.  Contemporary just means modern or new.  Our hymns were considered contemporary at the time they were written.  I'm still not getting how songs like "Redeemed", "Overcomer", "Your Grace Finds Me" is a reflection of the world by some on this forum.  The lyrics are edifying, encouraging and uplifting.  It's better than secular music which promote sex, drugs and violence. 

 

Is it really that much better? Why not just turn completely loose of the world letting Christ transform you?

 

Ro 12:1 ¶ I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Ro 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

 

There's no sacrifice to great for Him & His cause after all he paid a great price for our salvation.

 

1Co 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

 

1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

1Pe 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:

1Pe 2:23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:

1Pe 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

[HappyChristian]

You know, not everyone had said that it's unscriptural to use drums, so lets remember that, please.

Laura, heart was simply pointing out that one long post, with no breaks, is harder to read. It is, in fact, good nettiquitte (internet etiquette) to break up a post. I'm sure he wasn't being rude. Dismissing the suggestion by stating that those intrrested will read it kind of was, though. Let's not be so quick to take offense - after all, none of us are the apostle Paul. ;-)