Are Christians That Drink Wine Not Saved?

[The Glory Land]

So what you're saying is that Jesus was at a party with a bunch of drunk folks and he gave them MORE alcohol, to let them get even drunker?

Yes He made it, but He did not pour it down anyone throat. Just like everyrhing else we do or eat, He give us the liberty to do so. If we abuse it, we will pay for it. Keep eatting fast foods, you will die of a massive heart attack.

[Ukulelemike]

Yes He made it, but He did not pour it down anyone throat. Just like everyrhing else we do or eat, He give us the liberty to do so. If we abuse it, we will pay for it. Keep eatting fast foods, you will die of a massive heart attack.

Okay, let's rephrase that: Jesus made alcohol , (which is actually a corruption of the natural sugars in the grape, a type of leavening- it doesn't occur by nature- it MUSTbe done by man, with intention of altering what God has made perfectly), and provided it to a bunch of drunk  folks, knowing full well the reason they wanted it was to get drunker?  This goes against everything that Jesus was about.

 

"Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness!"

 

Now, some will say, "Jesus didn't give i tto them to look on their nakedness", yet that would surely be the result! Alcohol is a primary contributor to fornication, and do we think  Jesus didn't know that? yet here He is, giving His neighbours drink, putting, if you will, HIS bottle to them, and making them not just drunken, but drunkER!

[no name joe]

Okay, let's rephrase that: Jesus made alcohol , (which is actually a corruption of the natural sugars in the grape, a type of leavening- it doesn't occur by nature- it MUSTbe done by man, with intention of altering what God has made perfectly), and provided it to a bunch of drunk  folks, knowing full well the reason they wanted it was to get drunker?  This goes against everything that Jesus was about.

 

"Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness!"

 

Now, some will say, "Jesus didn't give i tto them to look on their nakedness", yet that would surely be the result! Alcohol is a primary contributor to fornication, and do we think  Jesus didn't know that? yet here He is, giving His neighbours drink, putting, if you will, HIS bottle to them, and making them not just drunken, but drunkER!

 

Fermentation occurs naturally.  Yeast, which is a substance in nature, devours sugar, and produces alcohol.  It is a completely natural process.  Making beer or wine is just controlling that process and keeping bacteria and other foreign substances out so the fermentation is pure.  I am a beer maker, so I know how to control the process well.  It is completely natural.  Making beer and wine is merely controlling the natural process.  It begins as soon as a sugary liquid comes into contact with yeast, which is naturally in the air, so it begins immediately.  Wine makers and beer makers merely accelerate the natural process by adding yeast and keeping it in a sterile environment so it is pure.  It is not corrupted at all.  In fact, it produces very delicious beverages when done well.  There are terrible tasting beer and wine out there, but that is usually the inferior mass marketed garbage, and not the fine wines and craft beers that are wonderful.  :-)  

 

Jesus did not serve wine to drunk people.  A wedding feast in that day occurred over a long period of time.  The best wine is served first.  Once people have tasted the best, the inferior was served.  The same is often done today at social events.  You experience the most flavor the first couple bites of food or drinks of wine.  After that, your taste buds have grown accustomed to the flavor, and the flavor is not a vivid.  That is why people serve the best first.

[The Glory Land]

Who had Wine, to help him self of stmoach problems, in the New Testament?

[HappyChristian]

Who had Wine, to help him self of stmoach problems, in the New Testament?

I know a number of doctors who recommend grape juice for the stomach. Anyone who has a stomach issue who has tried to drink alcohol can tell you that the alcohol in the drink further upsets the stomach. It doesn't help it.

 

~~~~~

 

The fact remains that references to wine in the Bible often mean grape juice.  Non-fermented.  God says it's not wise.  That's enough for me to know that Christ would not have created a wine that was fermented to the point that it could cause intoxication.    It's not wise.  *shrugs* Who am I to say I know better than God? 

 

Consistent drinking of alcohol (not even drunkenness, just consistent drinking) can damage the liver, the kidneys, the brain, and the temperament of the drinker.  I know - I've had more than one family member and/or friend affected by it.  Even those who only drink socially or in "moderation."   Since God says it's not wise to even look upon the wine when it moves/gives color in the cup (when it is fully fermented), I'll stay away from it - and stand firm in my belief that Christ did not make fermented wine.  I won't be missing anything, either.  Any "health" benefits for my heart (or my stomach) can be gained via drinking non-fermented wine, aka grape juice.

 

That is not to say that someone who does partake is not saved.  Just not wise. 

[The Glory Land]

I know a number of doctors who recommend grape juice for the stomach. Anyone who has a stomach issue who has tried to drink alcohol can tell you that the alcohol in the drink further upsets the stomach. It doesn't help it.

 

~~~~~

 

The fact remains that references to wine in the Bible often mean grape juice.  Non-fermented.  God says it's not wise.  That's enough for me to know that Christ would not have created a wine that was fermented to the point that it could cause intoxication.    It's not wise.  *shrugs* Who am I to say I know better than God? 

 

Consistent drinking of alcohol (not even drunkenness, just consistent drinking) can damage the liver, the kidneys, the brain, and the temperament of the drinker.  I know - I've had more than one family member and/or friend affected by it.  Even those who only drink socially or in "moderation."   Since God says it's not wise to even look upon the wine when it moves/gives color in the cup (when it is fully fermented), I'll stay away from it - and stand firm in my belief that Christ did not make fermented wine.  I won't be missing anything, either.  Any "health" benefits for my heart (or my stomach) can be gained via drinking non-fermented wine, aka grape juice.

 

That is not to say that someone who does partake is not saved.  Just not wise. 

 

 

If you're at the table, are you going to tell the Master, it is not clean and not drink?

[HappyChristian]

If you're at the table, are you going to tell the Master, it is not clean and not drink?

Um, what table are you talking about?  If you are talking about in Heaven, there won't be intoxicating beverage there, because, for starters yeast (leaven) is a picture of sin and there is no sin in Heaven...Secondly, God said it's not wise, therefore He wouldn't provide it.  

 

At other tables here on earth, I will refuse it.  If I'm even at a table where it's served.  Have been (unwillingly or unknowingly) and have done.  

[swathdiver]

What word remained unchanged until the 50's?  

 

God has said enough on the subject of drinking when He said, "be not drunk with wine" because we are to be "filled with the Spirit."  

 

What word?  Wine!  When the KJV was written one had to look at the context to see if it was referring to new or old wine, grape juice or fermented and alcoholic.  Much later both definitions began to appear in dictionaries, and again one had to pay attention to context to know which was being spoken of.  Funk and Wagnall's carried both definitions in theirs for example as recently as the middle of the last century.  Satan had to change that of course, it wouldn't jive with all the MVs he was producing.

 

So I take it you're on the Bible's side and against any alcoholic drinks?      Good!

 

 

I believe that all Wines are fermented, now and in the bible. Christians that enjoy having a glass of Wine, not to get drunk, are still Christians. Now having a cup of Wine, and trying to share the gospel don’t mix. Remember that there are brother in Christ in Chile, and other countries that have Wine with their dinners. So if you set a Wine glass before me, I will join you my friend, cheers.  coffee works too."

 

The customs of a nation or people does not make such right.  Cannibalism and pedophilia are customs around the world too.  A christian who enjoys wine is a sinning christian.  Don't be a fool and study the subject properly.

 

I am amazed at the verbal acrobatics people go through to say that wine, as used in the Bible is really grape juice. 

 

It's not surprising you take the liberal and lost view since you rebel against Christ's New Testament Churches.  It's you folks who have to do the acrobatics to justify you're drinking.  There are hundreds of verses against it and all of them are in a bad light.  It's a sin plain and simple but the natural man receive not the things of God for they are foolish to him.

 

Who had Wine, to help him self of stmoach problems, in the New Testament?

 

It was grape juice.  Study after study today shows that grape juice is much better for us than fermented wine.  Any benefit one might get from a bottle of fermented wine pales in comparison to grape juice.  Again, you folks don't have the sense to read context yet.  Please put away your beloved enemy, pray about it and read.

 

My preacher just completed a 6-part series on the evils of your beloved enemy, maybe you'd like to watch one or two sermons?

[Standing Firm In Christ]

The same word for wine in John 2:3 is used in Romans 14:21

 

Jhn 2:3

And when they wanted wine, ^G3631 the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine. ^G3631

 

Rom 14:21

It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, ^G3631 nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

...and lets not forget

 

Eph 5:18

And be not drunk with wine, ^G3631 wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

 

I guess what alot are saying is there is a problem with the KJV because they didn't have the word "juice" in 1611 ???

In our King James Bible, the English word "wine" was translated from the Greek word "oinos".  Oinos was a generic word.  It could either mean fermented wine, or unfermented wine.  Context shows which it was.

In John 2, the wine surely was unfermented.  We come to this conclusion because of Jesus' very nature.  Jesus came to seek and to save that which was lost... not to assist them further down the road to destruction.  The guests at the wedding had already "well drunk".  Why would Jesus give alcohol to a people who had already well drunk?  He would be contributing to their drunkenness.  No, He would not have given alcohol to a people that had well drunk.  He did not contribute to sin.

 

[Standing Firm In Christ]

The remark by the governor of the feast in Which he says, "thou hast kept the good wine until now" deserves a full explana­tion, as many automatically assume that the best wine must have been the most alcoholic. The problem with some is as Jesus said, Ye judge after the flesh. (John 8:15) In understanding the nature of the wine we should again take heed to our Lord's words, Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment. (John 7:24) The Rev. Dr. William Patton quotes The Rev. Dr. Jacobus' comments on the wine our Lord created, which states:
 

This wine was not that fermented liquor which passes now under that name. All who know of the wines then used will understand rather the unfermented juice of the grape. The present wines of Jerusalem and Lebanon, as we tasted them, were commonly boiled and sweet, without intoxicating qualities, such as we here get in liquors called wines. The boiling prevents the fermentation. Those were esteemed the best wines which were least strong.
 

He also quotes Dr. S.M. Isaacs, an eminent Jewish rabbi as saying:

 

In the Holy Land they do not commonly use fermented wines. The best wines are preserved sweet and unfermented.

We also find agreement with this in Professor Moses Stuart's writings, which state:

Facts show that ancients not only preserved their wine unfermented, but regarded it as of a higher flavor and finer quality than fermented wine."

Dr. Adam Clarke's comment on the term "good wine," reads:
 

That which our Lord now made being perfectly pure, and highly nutritive.

This is a clear reference to pure, fresh, unfermented grape juice. Albert Barnes' in-depth comments on this point here are worthy of consideration:

We should not be deceived by the phrase "good wine." We use the phrase to denote that it is good in its strength, and its power to intoxicate. But no such sense is to be attached to the word here. Pliny, Plutarch, and Horace describe wine as good, or mention that as the best wine which was harmless, or innocent...It should not be assumed, therefore, that the "good wine" was stronger than the other. It is rather to be presumed that It was milder. That would be the best wine certainly. The wine referred to here was doubtless such as was commonly drunk in Palestine. That was the pure juice of the grape. It was not brandied wine; nor drugged wine; nor wine compounded of various substances such as we drink in this land. The common wine drunk in Palestine was that which was the simple juice of the grape. We use the word wine now to denote the kind of liquid which passes under that name in this country-always fermented, and always containing a considerable portion of alcohol-not only the alcohol produced by fermentation, but added to keep it or make it stronger. But we have no right to take that sense of the word, and go with it to the interpretation of the Scriptures. We should endeavor to get into the exact circumstances of those times; ascertain precisely what idea the word would convey to those who used it then; and apply that sense to the word in the interpretation of the Bible. And there is not the slightest evidence that the word so used would have conveyed any idea but that of the pure juice of the grape;...

"Wine in the Bible" by Leighton G. Campbell; pp. 146-148

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Yes He made it, but He did not pour it down anyone throat. Just like everyrhing else we do or eat, He give us the liberty to do so. If we abuse it, we will pay for it. Keep eatting fast foods, you will die of a massive heart attack.

If Christ made alcohol for a bunch of people that had already "well drunk," then He has no right preventing drunkards from entering the Kingdom of Heaven.  Yet, His Word tells us drunkards will not be in Heaven.

Sorry TGL, but Christ did not make alcohol.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Okay, let's rephrase that: Jesus made alcohol , (which is actually a corruption of the natural sugars in the grape, a type of leavening- it doesn't occur by nature- it MUSTbe done by man, with intention of altering what God has made perfectly), and provided it to a bunch of drunk  folks, knowing full well the reason they wanted it was to get drunker?  This goes against everything that Jesus was about.

 

"Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness!"

 

Now, some will say, "Jesus didn't give i tto them to look on their nakedness", yet that would surely be the result! Alcohol is a primary contributor to fornication, and do we think  Jesus didn't know that? yet here He is, giving His neighbours drink, putting, if you will, HIS bottle to them, and making them not just drunken, but drunkER!

Exactly!  Even bartenders know not to give alcohol to a man who is already drunk!  Yet, many would have our Lord providing 120-180 gallons of alcohol to a people who had already "well drunk."

Amazing that they cannot see what impact their interpretation has.  Drunkards die and go to hell every day because they believe that nonsense that "Jesus made alcohol."  They are in torments because they believed the line "Jesus drank alcohol."  They are awaiting the lake of fire because Brother So-and-so told them they could drink in moderation.  They began drinking "in moderation" and that vile drink did exactly what Solomon said it could do... it deceived them.  They became addicted to it, they were convinced that "one more drink won't hurt" and "Being buzzed is not drunk."

So many are in hell today because they don't know what the Bible says concerning alcohol and sadly, because many who claim to know the Bible gave them that excuse to drink.

[robmac68]

  Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913 + 1828)

ARTFL > Webster's Dictionary > Searching for wine:

Displaying 1 result(s) from the 1828 edition:

 

WINE, n. [Gr.]

 

1. The fermented juice of grapes; as the wine of the Madeira grape; the wine of Burgundy or Oporto.

 

2. The juice of certain fruits, prepared with sugar, spirits, &c.; as currant wine; gooseberry wine.

 

3. Intoxication.

 

  Noah awoke from his wine. Genesis 9.

 

4. Drinking.

 

  They that tarry long at the wine. Proverbs 23.

 

Corn and wine, in Scripture, are put for all kinds of necessaries for subsistence. Psalm.

 

Bread and wine, in the Lords supper, are symbols of the body and blood of Christ.  

 

1 Timothy 3  

² A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

³ Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

⁸ Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;

 

Pastors shouldn't drink wine and deacons shouldn't drink much wine...are we talking grape juice here?  Why can't Pastors drink grape juice and why can deacons only drink a little grape juice?  Or is verse 3 fermented and then verse 8 unfermented? 

 

This is why it seems like acrobatics. 

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Who had Wine, to help him self of stmoach problems, in the New Testament?

That wine prescribed to Timothy was not alcoholic.  Alcohol will inflame an already infirmed stomach.  Doctors will tell patients with stomach imfirmities not to drink alcohol.

 

[Standing Firm In Christ]

  Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913 + 1828)

ARTFL > Webster's Dictionary > Searching for wine:

Displaying 1 result(s) from the 1828 edition:

 

WINE, n. [Gr.]

 

1. The fermented juice of grapes; as the wine of the Madeira grape; the wine of Burgundy or Oporto.

 

2. The juice of certain fruits, prepared with sugar, spirits, &c.; as currant wine; gooseberry wine.

 

3. Intoxication.

 

  Noah awoke from his wine. Genesis 9.

 

4. Drinking.

 

  They that tarry long at the wine. Proverbs 23.

 

Corn and wine, in Scripture, are put for all kinds of necessaries for subsistence. Psalm.

 

Bread and wine, in the Lords supper, are symbols of the body and blood of Christ.  

 

1 Timothy 3  

² A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

³ Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

⁸ Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;

 

Pastors shouldn't drink wine and deacons shouldn't drink much wine...are we talking grape juice here?  Why can't Pastors drink grape juice and why can deacons only drink a little grape juice?  Or is verse 3 fermented and then verse 8 unfermented? 

 

This is why it seems like acrobatics. 

Proper study will reveal that both verse 3 and verse 8 are unfermented