Are Christians That Drink Wine Not Saved?

[JerryNumbers]

People are always trying to add what we can do and what we can not do to be a christian, works,"  I agree with you and do not support that a christian should drink to feel good.

 

No, your 100% wrong, that is not being done, what is being stated is how to be a good Christian, a better witness to the lost, & to try & keep you from making a bother or sister in Christ to stumble. 

 

Do you want to be a stumbling block to your brothers & sisters in Christ, do you want to be a poor witness to the lost? If so drink all of the alcoholic beverages you can consume, & that is exactly what you will do.

[TheSword]

A question for the group, though primarily for the moderation advocates:

 

Would you sit on the front pew and drink a beer or glass of wine? Why or why not?

[no name joe]

Hmmm...that's an interesting take with no actual Scripture to support your position (at least none that you've stated aside from the loose quote of Matt 22:37-40 and soft reference to 1 Cor 8). Here's a question though. If you are loving the Lord your God with all of your heart, soul, and mind, wouldn't it be more important discern His mind on what He does and does not want His people to do and abide by that as opposed to personal preferences (yours or others)? If the first and great commandment is to love God with all of our heart, soul, and mind then putting away all things contrary to His nature and instruction is the essence of that action is it not? Since all of the Law and prophets hang on this first and great commandment, wouldn't God's consistent rebuke of a behavior be enough for us to abstain from it out of love for Him?

 

I suppose my overarching point is that God's mind on drinking is clear and as followers of Him we should be abstaining from it out of love for Him and those we may help lead to Him, and not necessarily out of dogmatic church rule (though I think church rules on the issue stem from this principle more often than not). If you want to drink in moderation, that's perfectly fine and won't affect your salvation one iota. I do, however, think that it would be limiting your spiritual growth and ability to be greatly used of God, which should be greatest our desire if we are loving Him with all of our heart, soul, and mind. That's my opinion anyway.

 

But that is the thing.  Scripture is not clear.  It seems clear to me that Jesus made wine for a wedding feast and told his disciples to drink at the Last Supper in remembrance of him.  

 

I do not think a glass of wine with dinner does anything to inhibit spiritual growth.  But then again, I don't expect everyone to agree with that because there are valid reasons that some people want to abstain and needs to follow their conscience in doing so.

[swathdiver]

The sipping saints have shown themselves to be the more liberal members of this forum.  They do not accept the King James bible as God's preserved Word in the English language, they reject most, if not all aspects separation, are ecumenical, support sodomy, lady pastors and even the murder of the unborn.  In short, they reject God's Word when it conflicts with their worldview.

 

Hey KOB, would you post that paper of yours for us to read?

[Standing Firm In Christ]

KoB says, "If a person drinks to the point where it is harmful to himself or others, then it becomes sin"

I have already given statements from CDC that just one beer over a thirty minute time limit puts a 225 pound man at 0.01 BAC, and limit the imbiber's reaction time.by10%.

Why does just one beer over thirty minutes affect the reaction time as it does? Because the toxin attacks and kills brain cells! The one imbibing is dong harm to himself and doesn't even realize it. Either that, or he just doesn't care.

KoB is advocating sin and doesn't realize it. Why? Because alcohol has deceived him just as the Bible says it can do.

[TheSword]

But that is the thing.  Scripture is not clear.  It seems clear to me that Jesus made wine for a wedding feast and told his disciples to drink at the Last Supper in remembrance of him.  

 

I do not think a glass of wine with dinner does anything to inhibit spiritual growth.  But then again, I don't expect everyone to agree with that because there are valid reasons that some people want to abstain and needs to follow their conscience in doing so.

 

I suppose you did not read my thorough presentation of how Scripture is clear in post #135? If you can show me how I have erred in Biblical interpration and application I'll gladly change my position on the issue. There is quite a lot of Scripture in there so you'll have to make a pretty good and thorough argument yourself, but I'll absolutely listen to it with an open mind.

[no name joe]

The sipping saints have shown themselves to be the more liberal members of this forum.  They do not accept the King James bible as God's preserved Word in the English language, they reject most, if not all aspects separation, are ecumenical, support sodomy, lady pastors and even the murder of the unborn.  In short, they reject God's Word when it conflicts with their worldview.

 

Hey KOB, would you post that paper of yours for us to read?

I wrote that years and year and year ago in college.  I no longer have possession of it.

[The Glory Land]

No, your 100% wrong, that is not being done, what is being stated is how to be a good Christian, a better witness to the lost, & to try & keep you from making a bother or sister in Christ to stumble. 

 

Do you want to be a stumbling block to your brothers & sisters in Christ, do you want to be a poor witness to the lost? If so drink all of the alcoholic beverages you can consume, & that is exactly what you will do.

 

 

 

Good answer....    .....  ...

[The Glory Land]

I need a glass of Wine after that last one.   

[robmac68]

The sipping saints have shown themselves to be the more liberal members of this forum.  They do not accept the King James bible as God's preserved Word in the English language, they reject most, if not all aspects separation, are ecumenical, support sodomy, lady pastors and even the murder of the unborn.  In short, they reject God's Word when it conflicts with their worldview.

 

Hey KOB, would you post that paper of yours for us to read?

Are you linking your first sentance to your second?  Do you believe sipping saints support sodomy and women pastors, etc.?

 

I personally accept the KJV as God's preserved Word in the English language, that is the exact reason I am not looking to change the word "wine" to grape juice.  Can you accept that?

[TheSword]

I need a glass of Wine after that last one.   

 

Why...? Need to take the edge off? Dull the pain/senses? Distract your mind from something? I know you're probably making a joke, but that joke reveals a kernal of truth about the true nature and purpose of said glass of wine. I don't think you'll find any references in the Bible about God wanting His people to dull their senses or distract themselves from something, but you'll find plenty of verses against it.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

I need a glass of Wine after that last one.   

Philippians 4:19 But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.

Of course, you are not speaking about that need that God supplies, are you.  You are speaking of that poison that man manufactures, bottles, and sells. 

I understand.

[Steve Schwenke]

Are you linking your first sentance to your second?  Do you believe sipping saints support sodomy and women pastors, etc.?

 

I personally accept the KJV as God's preserved Word in the English language, that is the exact reason I am not looking to change the word "wine" to grape juice.  Can you accept that?

I posted earlier in this thread how the Bible has SEVERAL different uses for the word "wine."  Have you looked at it? 

Sometimes "wine" is used as a reference to a freshly harvested crop.

Sometimes it is called "new wine" meaning freshly squeezed juice.

Sometimes it is illustrative. 

I mean, I posted the different uses, and several scriptures with them.....

 

Wine is NOT always ALCOHOL in the Bible, just like "meat" is not always animal meat - sometimes "meat" mean fruits and herbs, sometimes animal meat, sometimes FLOUR. 

 

I posted it earlier....

You are wrong

According to an Authorized King James Bible.

[swathdiver]

Are you linking your first sentance to your second?  Do you believe sipping saints support sodomy and women pastors, etc.?

 

I personally accept the KJV as God's preserved Word in the English language, that is the exact reason I am not looking to change the word "wine" to grape juice.  Can you accept that?

 

For the most part, yes.  That is what their own posts on this forum have shown.

 

We're not changing wine to grape juice either.  We're just more discerning to realize there is a difference in how the word is used.  Please read post #46 after praying about this.  

 

In our lexicon, how many definitions does "cool" have?  It was cool to have someone so cool with us outside where it was cool and then later in the cooler sipping cool chocolate milk, cool!

[robmac68]

I posted earlier in this thread how the Bible has SEVERAL different uses for the word "wine."  Have you looked at it? 

Sometimes "wine" is used as a reference to a freshly harvested crop.

Sometimes it is called "new wine" meaning freshly squeezed juice.

Sometimes it is illustrative. 

I mean, I posted the different uses, and several scriptures with them.....

 

Wine is NOT always ALCOHOL in the Bible, just like "meat" is not always animal meat - sometimes "meat" mean fruits and herbs, sometimes animal meat, sometimes FLOUR. 

 

I posted it earlier....

You are wrong

According to an Authorized King James Bible.

yes, I saw that a day or two ago...i did read it, but honestly, I need to study it.  by reading it, I think I was more confused.  anyway, I appreciate you putting the time in typing that up and posting it...it will be studied.