Looking Down On Others

[farouk]

"And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem." 1 Cor. 16:3
Liberality means " The quality or state of being liberal or generous."

Isaiah 32:5-8 "The vile person shall no more be called liberal, nor the churl said to be bountiful...The instruments also of the churl are evil: he deviseth wicked devices to destroy the poor with lying words, even when the needy speaketh right. BUT the liberal deviseth liberal things; and by liberal things shall he stand." No, liberal in the Bible does not mean unbelief. Let's be careful of applying meanings of today to scripture...

There are other verses in the Bible which use the term liberal - and all in a way that shows the word is a GOOD thing. In point of fact, the term liberal USED to mean a good thing here in America. Classical liberalism promotes limited government, constitutionalism, rule of law, due process, liberty of individuals...all the things so-called conservatives are for. The reason it's called classical is to differentiate it from social liberalism, which is what people mean when they use the term liberal nowadays.

By the same token, the term conservative means to preserve. Conservatives want to maintain the traditional way of looking at things. That isn't always good, because in America today, the traditional way of looking at things is not always what our founders had in mind...

We do judge based on scripture - at least we are supposed to. But all too often we judge on pet ideas that we stick a scripture onto...

LuAnne: Hi again. Exactly. You are right. You know the rhyme: 'Wonderful things in the Bible I see. Especially what's put there by you and by me.'

Great to be firmly Scriptural. Sometimes though what ppl think they are defending is more a case of tradition and opinion rather than what the Book actually teaches.

[blossom]

That shows liberal in a whole "new" light. I want to be one of God's liberals. Yes, word meanings have certainly changed over the centuries and this is just one example. It's just like the word "dumb": Today it's used to denote "stupidity" but in the King James Bible it has always meant "silent" or "unable to speak". I suppose that since the Devil can't destroy the Word of God, he tries to pervert the language we use to understand it with. But back to the word "liberal"; today's so-called "liberals" stand for such things as "pro-choice", "gay rights" and other wickedness. So by their perverted definition, I am not a liberal.

Another word is 'Wicked' I am currently dealing with my boys over using this word. They keep saying but it means cool. It's another one of satan's and the worlds tools to water down the bible.

[JerryNumbers]

No, what gets topics locked is insufferable attitudes from people. When anyone - whether they are more liberal or more conservative - begins taking conversation beyond the pale, the thread will be locked.

When David danced before the Lord, I would guess he was showing "liberal tendencies"...and his wife Michal looked on him and despised him in her heart. God didn't judge David, though. He punished Michal by causing her to be childless - because of her contempt toward her husband. All too often, threads become mired down in who is the more spiritual and who isn't spiritual based on one person's (or two or three) opinions on what they think everyone in the world should be doing. That, as I mentioned in the thread I locked which inspired this thread, is a form of pride. I realize that none of us like to be shown that we are being prideful, but it is what it is.

Christianity today has come so far from what Christ intended - we (and I say that generically) focus on the letter and not the spirit, just like the pharisees. And compassion is driven out...all in the name of "love."

When we, as adult Christians, cannot have a conversation without proclaiming that one or the other is in some sort of sin because of their actions (with NO scripture to back it up, other than verses pulled out just to support that pet thought), we are indeed guilty of looking down on whomever the target is - and that is the very same contempt Michal had for David.

What you just stated is, If my belief does not fit with yours you will lock the topic. That is being very nice, at least your up front about it.

And or that, you can stated your belief, but I can't.

I firmly believe sending your children to the public school, which is run by the devil is a sin against God & your violating this commandment.

De 6:7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.

If you place them-in public school you are violating the above verse, for you setting your children in the den of old Satan, & your setting them up to be won over by the world.

[John81]

What you just stated is, If my belief does not fit with yours you will lock the topic. That is being very nice, at least your up front about it.

And or that, you can stated your belief, but I can't.

I firmly believe sending your children to the public school, which is run by the devil is a sin against God & your violating this commandment.

De 6:7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.

If you place them-in public school you are violating the above verse, for you setting your children in the den of old Satan, & your setting them up to be won over by the world.

Christian children in public school clearly violates not only the command to bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord (they get the opposite in public schools) but also violates the commands of separation.

[no name joe]

I've tried to stay out of this, and this will be my last word on the matter.

The Bible has many areas that are unclear. There are very clear, universal principal, but there are many things that are not clear on how to carry out those principals.

Your school issues is a prime example. The Bible clearly instructs us to raise children to walk according to the ways of God. That deals with religious instruction and teaching them to obey the commands of God. That has NOTHING to do with school choices. I've broght up again and again examples in the Bible where people went to the secular education of their time and walked in the ways of God at the same time.

People can respectfully disagree. However, in the school example, some here are very unrespectful and are downright offensive. Being hostile and offensive to another person is looking down on them. Trying to impose one interpretation of Scripture on a person, even though there is an equal and different way of interpreting the same scripture is looking down on people.

There is room for disagreement. Thre is not room for being disrespectful and offensive to other people. Back to your school example, some families have no choice but to send their children to public school. For example, a friend of mine is a single mom. Her husband left her. She has to work to provide for her children. Under your view of government, she deserves no help, so she must work to provide. Yet, she cannot work unless she sends her children to school. She makes around $20,000 a year. Private school tuition is $12,000 a year here for one child. She has two. She cannot homeschool, because she has to work to feed her children. Yet some on this board would tell this loving, Christian woman, who did nothing wrong, and whose husband was a jerk and left her, a sinner for sending her children to public schools. By telling her she is sinning by sending her children to a den of Satan you are looking down on her. You are kicking her when she is down. How do you think that makes her feel? IT certainly does not make her feel loved and like she wants to be a part of a church family where that attitude is shown.

Another example of someone I know. The husband works, and makes a modest living. The wife is now disabled. They cannot afford private school. They cannot homeschool due to the disability. They send their children to public school. What do you say of this family?

I do not mean to bring up the school issue again, since that thread was shut down, but it is a prime example of some people looking down on others for what they are doing, when in fact they are doing the very best they can for their families.

What is a much better way of discusssion? To acknowledge differences. To try to understand where the other person is coming from, and even if you disagree with that, acknowledge their views are equally as valid, instead of saying the "Well, if you don't agree with me, you oppose God" bunk.

Now that I have that out, I will respond no further. Any further discussion is futile and a complete waste of my time.

[HappyChristian]

What you just stated is, If my belief does not fit with yours you will lock the topic. That is being very nice, at least your up front about it. No, Jerry, that isn't what I stated, and you know it very well. Presenting an incorrect analysis of someone's post is not being very nice - and you're not being upfront about that. As BroMatt stated, if Admins/Mods locked everything they disagreed with, there'd be no topics open (except food ). Do me and everyone else a favor and DO NOT incorrectly restate what someone says. That is disingenuous at best, dishonest at worst (and don't go hyper - I'm not accusing you of lying, so don't say I am...I'm pointing out that it's just plain wrong to purposely misinterpret what someone says).

And or that, you can stated your belief, but I can't. You state your beliefs all the time, Jerry, and aren't locked down or even banned, so this statement is totally inaccurate.

I firmly believe sending your children to the public school, which is run by the devil is a sin against God & your violating this commandment. You can firmly believe that all you want. And I have no problem with that. What I have a problem with - as my posts OBVIOUSLY said, is the WAY in which it is presented - not just by you...note that I used the pronoun WE - that can become a problem (and does, often).

De 6:7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.

If you place them-in public school you are violating the above verse, for you setting your children in the den of old Satan, & your setting them up to be won over by the world. That is something that fathers have to decide for their own families. Presenting your opinion on the verse is great - presenting it as rock hard fact for every single person in the world is not right, because you are not the head of every family.

If this thread is just a way to bring public schools back into the discussion, and it gets obnoxious as the other one did, I'll lock this, too.

[swathdiver]

The Bible has many areas that are unclear. ...Your school issues is a prime example. The Bible clearly instructs us to raise children to walk according to the ways of God. That deals with religious instruction and teaching them to obey the commands of God. That has NOTHING to do with school choices.

You ignore that which you disagree with or choose not to seek understanding. The Lord is very clear on how we're to instruct our children.

Then you give Democrat Party Campaign-like examples of folks who have no choice but to raise their children the world's way. Bunk!

Those are examples of people lacking in discernment and faith in our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

[swathdiver]

If you place them-in public school you are violating the above verse, for you setting your children in the den of old Satan, & your setting them up to be won over by the world. That is something that fathers have to decide for their own families.

Yes, whether or not to follow God's Word of the world. I cannot understand how the Lord would give a burden for me to do something sinful and for another not to do the very same thing. Doesn't make any sense to me. Anyone?

[Brother Rick]

I believe the proof is in the pudding. Very rarely do you hear stories of homeschooled Christian kids dabbling in drugs, getting pregnant, coming out, or turning 180 degrees away from what their church teaches. Sometimes you'll see them get lazy in their 20s and drift off from church or something, or they’ll go to college and then do all the above things.

The public school system is geared towards indoctrinating one's children against God. To think one can overcome this with Sunday school and a nice youth group activity now and then is ridiculous. Sending one's kids to public school in of itself is not raising them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord, it is putting them in place to fail. The availability of wickedness and debauchery is much worse now than when I was a kid, and I'm only 32 years old. I see public school grads all the time come out with an inability to formulate logic, an inability to determine what is right outside of what the law states, an insatiable desire to party and avoid work, rotten attitudes, and a disgusting spirit of entitlement.

The fact is liberals don't reproduce as fast a conservatives because they're too busy aborting all their children or too selfish to have kids. But they don't have to reproduce when they can just recruit our children and indoctrinate them. That is exactly what they do and to say otherwise just proves a person's ignorance on this issue.

The fact is homeschooled kids have a much better chance of succeeding in work, marriage, and in the Lord.

Many times in life we find ourselves in bad situations. Sometimes this is a crummy marriage, a bad job atmosphere, an unfortunate debt situation, the list goes on and on. Most of the time, but not always, these bad situations are a result of our own actions. In the end though, it doesn't matter how you (when I say "you" I'm using the word generally, not specific to any person reading this) got into the situation as much as how you are going to handle the problems that come with it. You can't bail on your marriage; you have to make it work. Look for a different job, and stay close to the Lord while you are. A wicked man borroweth and payeth not again, so you're stuck with your load of debt until you pay it off.

It is a bad situation to have to send one's kids to a public school, and the sooner that person realizes it the sooner they can focus on trying to change the situation or counteract it. You have to treat the time they are at school as exactly what it is: fleshly indoctrination against God. Then when they get home you have to do everything you can to counteract this. Your poor kids are forced onto a vicious battleground between God and the world when they should be learning to love the Lord in the peace that comes with a godly home.

If a person finds themself in this situation it is of the upmost importance that they realize the severity of their predicament. They are in a battle for their little children against the one who is wiser than Daniel and the odds are against them. The moment they forget this or lose sight of it they’ve already lost.

Is it a sin to send your kids to public school? Well, it's certainly not good and doesn't exactly fit under the whole "raise them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord" command. Is it a sin to be married to someone who is not saved? It's certainly not good and doesn't fit with the command to not be yoked with an unbeliever. Is it a sin to have credit card debt? The Bible makes it clear that debt that isn't backed up by something is wrong and we should avoid it. But sometimes we find ourselves in situations and we can't do anything about it but hold on for dear life. At that point it's not how we got there, it's what we're going to do now that matters.

A person should do everything they can to avoid sending their kids to public school, but if they can't they need to recognize the system for what it is and do everything they can to hold onto their kids, or those poor children won’t have a snowball’s chance in Hell. Sorry if that sounds blunt, but it’s the truth.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Rick Schworer

[heartstrings]

I had an aunt and uncle who were both retarded. I doubt that they could read or write, let alone help their kid with his algebra. But they had a son of normal average intelligence. In a situation like this and many others, homeschooling would be either extremely difficult or out of the question. We home schooled our three children, but it was a whole different situation than one such as the home I mentioned above. I would be reluctant to judge too many folks for making the decision not to home school, but I thank God that we had that freedom and the ability to do it. We don't regret it at all.

Edited February 24, 2012 by heartstrings

[HappyChristian]

Yes, whether or not to follow God's Word of the world. I cannot understand how the Lord would give a burden for me to do something sinful and for another not to do the very same thing. Doesn't make any sense to me. Anyone?

So, are you saying that any burden God gives to anyone automatically makes that a sin for everyone else? Where is that in scripture? And why are you allowed to have the Lord speak to you about something, but don't allow someone else that same courtesy without bludgeoning them about it?

An example I could give is the television. We do not have one. Because my husband was convicted of owning one before we ever met. It burdened him to see his family spend so much time away from each other in front of the tube. And so he promised God he would never have one in his home. And we never have. So, by your logic, any man on here who has one (I know not all do, but many do) in his home is in sin because my husband was burdened about it for his own family. Sorry, but that just isn't the way it works (and I'm not just talking about watching the tv...I'm talking about OWNING one - so, following that, anyone who owns one must get rid of it...see how illogical that is? And here's a good verse for it: I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes...)

Yes, fathers are to make decisions on whether or not to follow God's Word or the world. Each individual father, in each individual home. Some fathers make decisions for one thing, some for another (such as tv, in my above example). The case could be made for homeschooling against any other kind of schooling, and scripture could be used effectively. The case could also be made for Christian schooling against any other kind of schooling (including homeschool), and scripture could be used effectively (I've heard it preached, so I know it's done). The case could be made for public schooling as well, using scripture. I know it would be a stretch, but it's there. Like witnessing. Yes, I know of people who send their kids to public school to be a witness to the lost there. And those kids are pretty strong Christians. Do I agree with that? No way - but they aren't my kids.

This is the point I've been trying to make. It is absolute scripture that each man is to be the head of his home. Yes, under God. That shouldn't even have to be said on a Christian forum. Yes, in line with scripture - again redundant. But no man will do anything just like any other man - else we would just be robots (where scripture is completely clear, we are all to follow in exact formation else there is confusion). If a man, after prayer and scripture searching, cannot honestly say that God is showing him to homeschool or place his kids in a Christian school, then he ought not do so. The burden for training his children in the ways of the Lord then triple or quadruple as he must gear them for the battles they will face every day (just as Rick said in his last paragraph). But, to be quite honest, raising one's children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord is a whole lot harder than just not putting them in the public school. There are casualties in any education scenario we could come up with.

Rick, I hear you about the debauchery of the public schools. It has gotten much worse since I was in school, 20 years earlier than you. Sad to say, many Christian schools are going the same route - and started when I was still in school...I know because I attended more than one like that. Homeschooling isn't always the answer, either. The answer lies completely in the hands of the father of each home, and if and how he trains his children while they are in his home. It can be done, whatever educational course the family takes. But it takes lots of prayer, work, and consistency.

[farouk]

The idea in principal of a Christian school or homeschooling is good. But if it's not a viable option for some parents, it makes no sense arbitrarily to cast aspersions on a parent's Christian character because of it. Same with all sorts of things. I could list out lots of things about which individual Christians may have various viewpoints about or at least different conceptions of what practical realities are as they may apply to them personally. Romans 14 is a good guide here.

[Brother Rick]

Far too often it's not a "viable option" because of one thing: greed.

They want to make more money or have more things and they're willing to stick their head in the sand and offer their children to Moloch while they're doing it.

Sending one's kids to public school should never, ever be looked upon as a preference - Romans 14 does not apply. It's a terrible thing to have to send your kid to public school and a Christian parent is lying to himself if he thinks otherwise. If you really have to and there's no other way, then so be it, but don't be naive about what you're getting yourself into.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Rick Schworer

[swathdiver]

So, are you saying that any burden God gives to anyone automatically makes that a sin for everyone else?

Nope.

[HappyChristian]

Nope.

Ah.