Is it possible to renounce salvation?

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Not necessarily, Trell.

The Gospels have parable in which it is explained that the seed is the Word. In that parable, some receive the seed with joy, but when cares arise because the seed is unable to take root the seed is rejected.

Seed from God does not always make a person a child of God, else Stephen would have seen the angry crowd converted in Acts.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Standing Firm In Christ

[trell]

1Pe 1:23

Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

I understand the sower and the seed parable. A parable has always has a limited application. The church, with the seed planted within, saved for all eternity, began on Pentecost.

[John81]

Matthew 7 reveals that there will be many that stand before Christ pleading with Him because of the many things they did for Him in life. And He will profess to them, "I never knew you."

He doesn't say, "I knew you, but you decided not to follow me any more." He emphatically tells them, "I 'NEVER' knew you."

Yes, it is sad that there are going to be many who made a profession of faith in life, went to Church, put money in the offering plates, gave to missions, fed visiting missionaries and evangelists, and a whole slew of other 'wonderful works' who never truly were saved in the first place.

They were able to fool the pastors, the missionaries, the evangelists, the teachers, their parents, their children... and even managed to fool themselves with thoughts of "I'm as good as the next guy," or "I'm better than him."

Yet they never once fooled Jesus Christ. Jesus knows the heart of man, how it is deceitful above all others and desperately wicked. Unless that heart experiences a change that is done by the work of the Holy Spirit, that person's faith and wonderful works are all in vain.

That's very true but it's not popular to talk about it!

There are many true Christians out there who spent much of their lives beliving they were Christians serving God, heading for heaven, only to one day actually hear the Gospel, respond and be born again. They then look back and realize if they had died at any time prior to that they would have found themselves in hell. Many of these people share their testimonies but it seems few actually listen.

It really saddens me to think of all the folks who sincerely think they are right with God, but they are sincerely wrong and will spend eternity in hell unless they are biblically born again before they die.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Sadly, most only are taught to have faith in God and that they can enter a contract of eternal life on their terms.

God has already set the guidelines in His Holy Word, if we will have life we must agree to His terms instead of expecting Him to conform to ours.

[John81]

Sadly, most only are taught to have faith in God and that they can enter a contract of eternal life on their terms.

God has already set the guidelines in His Holy Word, if we will have life we must agree to His terms instead of expecting Him to conform to ours.

Amen!

Scripture is also clear that if we are truly saved there will be change in our hearts and lives. Too many preach that one can be saved and act like the devil. Scripture declares otherwise. Scripture teaches that if we are born again in Christ we ARE new creatures. Scripture also says the fruit in our lives will bear this out and we will strive to pursue living according the Word, walking in the Spirit, not in our flesh.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Amen!

Scripture is also clear that if we are truly saved there will be change in our hearts and lives. Too many preach that one can be saved and act like the devil. Scripture declares otherwise. Scripture teaches that if we are born again in Christ we ARE new creatures. Scripture also says the fruit in our lives will bear this out and we will strive to pursue living according the Word, walking in the Spirit, not in our flesh.

And another hearty Amen! to that.

[1John2:15-17]

Amen!

Scripture is also clear that if we are truly saved there will be change in our hearts and lives. Too many preach that one can be saved and act like the devil. Scripture declares otherwise. Scripture teaches that if we are born again in Christ we ARE new creatures. Scripture also says the fruit in our lives will bear this out and we will strive to pursue living according the Word, walking in the Spirit, not in our flesh.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaamen!

[JerryNumbers]

Jerry,
I was quoting Jeremiah in relation to seed. The seed determines what it is. Seed from God makes a person a child of God.

No, its all about GRACE, it matters not whose seed you come from. It matters not who your father is, your grand father, nor great grand father, God has no grand children, no great grand children, only children.


Joh 8:33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

Yet, there's many that believe if thier father & mother were members of a church, & called their self Christian, that makes them Christian too, but thye only have a false hope of heaven.

[JerryNumbers]

Sadly, most only are taught to have faith in God and that they can enter a contract of eternal life on their terms.

God has already set the guidelines in His Holy Word, if we will have life we must agree to His terms instead of expecting Him to conform to ours.

That is so true, many do put God , {they try to but it never works}, under their very own terms, & never meet Him in under the conditions He has set up.

[2Tim215]

1Pe 1:23

Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

I understand the sower and the seed parable. A parable has always has a limited application. The church, with the seed planted within, saved for all eternity, began on Pentecost.

Trell is 100% right - the incorruptible seed spoken of in 1 Pet 1 is The Word preached to the CHURCH - that being Jesus Christ crucified and risen from the dead - salvation through grace. This is not the same seed spoken of in the parable - that was the LAW - Jesus was speaking to JEWS not the church as He was in MATHEW 7 that so many of you like to quote when stating that people can profess salvation and not be saved. Mat 7 has NOTHING to do with the church and those saved by grace! It's easy to take bible out of context to justify a personal opinion.

Yes there are many "Christians" that are not saved, but there are just as many believers who are saved that live in continual sin through personal disobedience that WILL see eternity in heaven - it's NOT just a few hardcore IFB's that will be in heaven!! I am not pointing fingers here, but don't you think that our message would be better believed if we behaved as He did with charity as he did with the tax collectors and the whores and the "dogs" at the well - SINNERS all. DO you think that statements like "look at that "believer" sinning - was probably never saved to start with!" does any good to the message of servitude, humility, sacrifice, grace, love and charity that Jesus and His disciples AND Paul preached? Does it portray us as one of His own?

It is impossible for us to renounce salvation as it it wasn't ours in the first place but we can, will and often do renounce God and isn't that the same thing? He is after all the AUTHOR of our salvation. Lets not forget Peter (Mat 26:69-75) or was he not saved in the first place either? I am reasonably sure that there was a IFB or two there that snickered and whispered "probably not saved in the first place" while they sat fat and content in the surety of their "sound doctrine" and ignored the agony of their own brothers and sisters struggle with daily sin because they were too "clean" to get dirty for Christ!! Edited May 2, 2012 by 2Tim215

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Nope, Peter was not saved at the time he denied our Lord.

Note that just prior to the crucifixion Jesus told Peter:

Luke 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Peter had not been converted yet.

Luke 22:33-34 And he said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death. And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me.

Edited May 2, 2012 by Standing Firm In Christ

[2Tim215]

Valid point. I agree. Peter wasn't saved under grace after the cross. But he was definitely under the "grace" of Christ. He "renounced" Christ three times and when the cock crowed he wept bitterly - Repentance? Remorse? What makes his sin any different to that of Judas - they both betrayed Christ in there own way. Both were warned that they would. Both "repented". Why is Peter's repentance recognized and Judases not? So were all the disciples except one under the grace of the Living Christ until there conversion at Pentecost? I believe so and I say this because of this:

Joh 13:9 Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head.
Joh 13:10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.
Joh 13:11 For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean.


This proves that they were "clean" in the eyes of Christ - all except Judas as we know. Like I keep on saying it is possible for a "christian" to not be saved (Judas) but it is also possible for a BELIEVER to live in sin, reject and renounce Christ and still be saved. It's upon Him and not us that we are saved and stay saved.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

The footwashing was not an act to show that the Apostles were under grace. That was a physical washing of the feet.

If foot washing assured one that they fell under the grace of God, then there's not a man, woman or child on this planet who doesn't fit that category.

[LindaR]

2 Corinthians 7:9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.

2 Corinthians 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Judas' repentance was not toward God....he was "remorseful"...."sorry I got caught" and took the coward's way out and hung himself.

Matthew 27:3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,

Matthew 27:4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.

Matthew 27:5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.

Peter's repentance was toward God.

Matthew 26:74 Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know not the man. And immediately the cock crew.

Matthew 26:75 And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly.

[2Tim215]

The footwashing was not an act to show that the Apostles were under grace. That was a physical washing of the feet.

If foot washing assured one that they fell under the grace of God, then there's not a man, woman or child on this planet who doesn't fit that category.

I didn't say footwashing represented that they were under grace HIS statement did so I will highlight it again:

Joh 13:9 Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head.
Joh 13:10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.
Joh 13:11 For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean.