Discussion Topic - Could A Woman Be A Choir Director/Song Leader?

[1Timothy115]

No, not at all. Nor does it bother me if a woman is the choir director. Nor does it bother the Lord God as he didn't prohibit it in His Word.

There are many other things which could be justified for lack of direct instruction from God's word. I know you don't want to condone all things which are bad for the church and/or individuals just because there is no direct prohibition in God's Word. However, when scripture lends itself to setting a precedence in conduct or practice should we avoid the appearance of confusion or disOBedience?

Do you agree that singing and music in the church are intended as formal expressions of worship? Edited November 6, 2010 by 1Tim115

[trc123]

Do you agree that singing and music in the church are intended as formal expressions of worship?

No, I do not agree that singing and music in the church are intended (in Scripture) as formal expressions of worship? I believe they are meant to be heart felt and intimate expressions of worship. I further don't see how that is usurping authority over a man.

[1Timothy115]

No, I do not agree that singing and music in the church are intended (in Scripture) as formal expressions of worship? I believe they are meant to be heart felt and intimate expressions of worship. I further don't see how that is usurping authority over a man.

Okay, let the woman lead your "heart felt and intimate expressions of worship."

Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

I personally believe the leaders of music and song were clearly outlined in the O.T. (Ezra 3:10) Edited November 6, 2010 by 1Tim115

[John81]

Okay, let the woman lead your "heart felt and intimate expressions of worship."

Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

I personally believe the leaders of music and song were clearly outlined in the O.T. (Ezra 3:10)

Scripture is clear that any leadership position within the church is to be held by men and aspects relating to this in the pre-church era agree. Scripture is consistent throughout that leadership positions are for men.

Even if one doesn't agree that Scripture is clear on this, which I don't understand why they would, but if so, and they think there is a bit of silence in this area, we are still to "fill the silence" with what Scripture does say. Far better to take the side of caution rather than risk doing wrong by using silence as our reason.

It's unfortunate that many churches prefer to use what they see as silence or lack of a clear direction, as reason to do what they want. This is what has led to women run churches and other unbiblical aspects within churches.

[Anon]

Women aren't supposed to lead men in church. Period.

Women can lead childrens choirs and women's groups...not mixed choirs or church song leading. They call it song LEADING for a reason.... the Bible clearly prohibits women from leading in church.

Its not me...its Bible.

[Invicta]

I would like to ask a question.

By song leader do you mean someone who pitches the note for singing without musical accompanyment, as we used to have in the Brethren?

We have a grand piano as our accomppanyment and our pianist is usually a woman, so I suppose she leads the singing. Are you saying that is wrong?

[HappyChristian]

Actually, Invicta, the person playing piano is not the leader. That person actually follows the one doing the leading. There is no scripture that absolutely forbids women from directing the choir. But I do believe there is pattern and principle in scripture that would show that it isn't the way things should be.

The pattern? The Chidlren of Israel and their worship. Who were the music leaders? The Levites. Men. Fast forward to the New Testament, and we don't see specific scripture that says the woman can't lead choir. But the principle of leadership in worship is that men are to lead. Since the choir special is an active part of the service in most churches, I would tend toward the idea that the one directing the choir would be considered in a spiritual leadership role by the Lord. And therefore should be a man.

I truly don't think a church errs if only men lead the music - congretional or choir. I would agree that, if it's a children's choir or an all female choir, I don't think there's a prOBlem. But a mixed choir would, I believe, fall under the idea of women leading men. JMO

[Invicta]

Actually, Invicta, the person playing piano is not the leader. That person actually follows the one doing the leading. There is no scripture that absolutely forbids women from directing the choir. But I do believe there is pattern and principle in scripture that would show that it isn't the way things should be.

I would disagree, our pianist plays and the congregation follow, we don't have a leader apart from that, the minister announces the hymn and the pianist plays an introduction and the congregation then sing to the accompanyment of the piano. So yes, the pianist is leading. Other churches may have an organ in the same capacity.

The pattern? The Chidlren of Israel and their worship. Who were the music leaders? The Levites. Men. Fast forward to the New Testament, and we don't see specific scripture that says the woman can't lead choir. But the principle of leadership in worship is that men are to lead. Since the choir special is an active part of the service in most churches, Not in any churches that I heve been to, Choirs are mostly in RC and Anglican churches and Afro Carribean. I would tend toward the idea that the one directing the choir would be considered in a spiritual leadership role by the Lord. And therefore should be a man.

We do have a local Male Voice Praise Choir, but they are not attached to any Church. They practise in two churches, one I believe is Baptist in the next town and the other a Brethren in our town. As the latter is not far from us and the only service they now have is the Sunday mornign "Breaking of Bread" and they have only about 4 or five attend and two of them come to us on a Sunday evening and are very elderly and in bad health, there is a chance that it may close soon and the choir asked if they could have the practice at our church. We declined as they are not attached to our church and we had already turned down a secular choir who wanted to practise there, OBn the grounds that we do not let anyone from outside the church to hire it.

I truly don't think a church errs if only men lead the music - congretional or choir. I would agree that, if it's a children's choir or an all female choir, I don't think there's a prOBlem. But a mixed choir would, I believe, fall under the idea of women leading men. JMO

There is a Baptist Church near here that has a "Praise Group", but they look so miserable I called them professional mourners. Edited November 8, 2010 by Invicta

[1Timothy115]

There is a Baptist Church near here that has a "Praise Group", but they look so miserable I called them professional mourners.

"the minister announces the hymn and the pianist plays"

Under whose direction does the pianist begin playing?

[Annie]

My two cents...

First--and I think we'd all agree about this--music (in a church service) is worship; whether it is congregational singing, or choral singing, or a cappella singing, or instrumental music. It is not a "performance;" rather, it is an act of worship. Those who are singing, playing, and listening (which is a very active role) are all worshiping together as they share in the music. A violinist playing a prelude is not "leading" in worship; he/she is worshiping by playing the song, and the congregation is worshiping as they listen and meditate on the words of that song (or merely bask in the beauty of the music if they don't know the words, praising the God of beauty). The "leader" of the worship is the one in the pulpit (at least that's where he stands in our church)...the one who actively directs and focuses the thoughts of the congregation on the Word as he introduces different aspects of the service. The choir director contributes by waving his/her arms. He/she worships as a member of the singing/playing ensemble as she does this. Some vocal ensembles do not have a conductor who waves his arms, but merely have learned to listen to the piano/organ/other instruments for cues, dynamics, etc. In these cases, the pianist/instrumentalist could indeed be considered the "leader" of the group, in that he/she provides the introduction and cues to come in, etc.

Taking all of this into consideration, I personally (and this is just my opinion) would have no prOBlem with a female choir/orchestra conductor, pianist, instrumentalist, etc. IMO, she is not taking spiritual leadership over men; she is merely worshiping along with everyone else in the group by using her own specific musical ability, just as a violinist or pianist would. I would, however, draw the line at having a woman stand in the pulpit and guide the entire congregation through the worship service (although, really, when a woman sings a solo, she really is exhorting the whole congregation, men included...so, maybe that's an inconsistency in my opinion).

In our church, men fill all conducting and general song leading positions...which I think is great. It's definitely better to be on the safe side of these things, when God's Word clearly places men in charge of church congregations.

[trc123]

My two cents...

First--and I think we'd all agree about this--music (in a church service) is worship; whether it is congregational singing, or choral singing, or a cappella singing, or instrumental music. It is not a "performance;" rather, it is an act of worship. Those who are singing, playing, and listening (which is a very active role) are all worshiping together as they share in the music. A violinist playing a prelude is not "leading" in worship; he/she is worshiping by playing the song, and the congregation is worshiping as they listen and meditate on the words of that song (or merely bask in the beauty of the music if they don't know the words, praising the God of beauty). The "leader" of the worship is the one in the pulpit (at least that's where he stands in our church)...the one who actively directs and focuses the thoughts of the congregation on the Word as he introduces different aspects of the service. The choir director contributes by waving his/her arms. He/she worships as a member of the singing/playing ensemble as she does this. Some vocal ensembles do not have a conductor who waves his arms, but merely have learned to listen to the piano/organ/other instruments for cues, dynamics, etc. In these cases, the pianist/instrumentalist could indeed be considered the "leader" of the group, in that he/she provides the introduction and cues to come in, etc.

Taking all of this into consideration, I personally (and this is just my opinion) would have no prOBlem with a female choir/orchestra conductor, pianist, instrumentalist, etc. IMO, she is not taking spiritual leadership over men; she is merely worshiping along with everyone else in the group by using her own specific musical ability, just as a violinist or pianist would. I would, however, draw the line at having a woman stand in the pulpit and guide the entire congregation through the worship service (although, really, when a woman sings a solo, she really is exhorting the whole congregation, men included...so, maybe that's an inconsistency in my opinion).

In our church, men fill all conducting and general song leading positions...which I think is great. It's definitely better to be on the safe side of these things, when God's Word clearly places men in charge of church congregations.

Thank you, makes sense to me.

P.S. I never said women should be leading the worship from the pulpit. I did say I saw no Scriptural prohibition to leading the "choir."

[Invicta]

We don't have a choir. We don't have a conductor. We don't have anyone waving their arms. We don't have a song leader. We don't have a worship leader, ie someone standing at the front leading the singing. (I would consider the preacher to be the one leading the worship.)

We just have a grand piano, a 1905 Broadwood even older than me. In fact even older than our former pianist who is 91 and has played a couple of times in the last year, but arthritis in her fingers has now got the better of her.

[no name joe]

At my church growing up, we had a woman music minister. SHe did a fantastic jOB in leading worship through music.

As the Apostle Paul writes, there is neither Jew nor Greek, nor male or female. We are all one in Christ.

[1Timothy115]

At my church growing up, we had a woman music minister. SHe did a fantastic jOB in leading worship through music.

As the Apostle Paul writes, there is neither Jew nor Greek, nor male or female. We are all one in Christ.

The context in Gal. 3 is justification by faith without need for keeping the law. We are all justified through Jesus Christ and on an equal footing with regard to being joint heirs with Jesus. Some folks had come after Paul's visit teaching that the Galations must not only have faith in Christ but also OBserve the law...get circumcised.

[John81]

The context in Gal. 3 is justification by faith without need for keeping the law. We are all justified through Jesus Christ and on an equal footing with regard to being joint heirs with Jesus. Some folks had come after Paul's visit teaching that the Galations must not only have faith in Christ but also OBserve the law...get circumcised.

That has to be one of the most wrongly used verses. Were this verse taken to mean anything beyond that we all come to Christ the same way and therefore have the same standing before Christ, as the context indicates, this one verse would contradict all the verses in Scripture where a distinction is made between men and women; such as only men being pastors, for instance.