A Dying Breed

[Pastorj]

My wife and I were talking the other day about a number of old fashion ways that we have that people are "shocked" at. Some examples are:

1. Children calling adults by their last name. I was at a camp last week and I introduced my 12 year old son to the camp director (who I went to school with) as Bro. Last name. He then replied, just have him call be Bro. "first name". When I told him that my children are not permitted to call an adult by their first name, he was simply shocked. I took a group of teens canoeing during the week and the teens were calling their youth pastor by his first name, without the title "Bro" or "pastor". When I brought the topic up to the teens, they didn't think it was a big deal. I told them that it was disrespectful to an adult to call them by their first name. I was pleasantly surprised that he agreed, but he was not willing to require his teens to do it.

Growing up in an unsaved home, I would never have dare call an adult by their first name. I still to this day call older adults by their last name. It is a sign of respect.

2. Sending Thank you cards. We recently gave two 18 gallon containers of clothes to a family in our church. Though I don't expect anything from people in return, I do expect a thank you card from people. In discussing this topic with others, I have found out that people today believe that all you need to do is say "Thank you" and that is enough. I was taught that you have 2-3 days to get a thank you card out when people do something special for you. I have read different "manners" books and they say the same thing.


3. Modesty - I don't want to start an argument on this topic, but I am shocked every day about what "Christians" think are modest. When we compare how our friends dressed 20 years ago and now today, I am amazed at how the older our friends get, the worse they dress. We were looking at a friends facebook account and were amazed that my wife had to take the computer and change screens because the wife's blouse was barely covering her chest. 20 years ago, this couple held to high modesty standards.

I am not intending an argument on any of these subjects. I am curious though, do you hold to these beliefs also or not.

[trc123]

Yes, we hold those believe as well.

[Quiet Listener]

One and three definitely. Two...not so much.

I am younger so I think that it has a lot to do with it. (I am not trying to be disrespectfull. Please hear me out!) I have noticed that my generation compared with my parent's and especially my grandparent's generation have a very different thought process when it comes to thank you cards.

My grandparents all agree that it is a must because they grew up with that being expected custom. My parents usually agree it is a must, but when asked why it is because that is what their parents told them they needed to do. My generation does not see it as a must (including myself) and this is why I think we feel this way.

When you look at the time my grandparents grew up in communication was limited. You either called your friends and family by telephone (if you had one) or you wrote them a letter. If someone sent you something or did something for you it was expected courtesy to write a thank you card because either you didn't have a phone or the phone was used in conjuction with the card.

When you look at my parents time frame you prOBably had a phone whether in or out of city by now. Cell phones were first being invented as well as the internet. Transportation was more accesible and faster too. In other words, the world was growing smaller and smaller every year. Because of this even though thank you cards where very much still expected they weren't always necessary as you could just as easily if not more quickly present yourself in person and thank them.

Now you get to my generation. We have home phones, cell phones, the well established World Wide Web with its e-mail, chat, twitter, and forums. We have in almost every way concievable made it easy and quick to get in touch with anybody around the world in a matter of seconds. The world is a much, much smaller place now; therefore, thank you cards have for the most part become absolete in our minds. When someone does something special for us the first thing that comes to our mind is not "I need to write them a thank you card," but "Hey! That is really neat what they did. I will send them an e-card or I will text them a funny message, etc."

With all of this being said, I do still think that a thank you card can be the most special because it takes the most time to sit down and write it.

This is just my thought on why people don't commonly send thank you cards anymore. So the next time someone doesn't send you a thank you card hopefully it will help to take this into consideration.

A Loving Brother,
Quiet Listener

[CPR]

I agree with what you're saying, especially on the thank you notes. My mom still reminds me to send appropriate thank yous! It's so sweet, even my nephews will draw a picture and write their name (as best they can) to say thank you. It's important to get children accustom to expressing gratitude for the thoughtfulness of others at a young age.

I do have a question for you about the first name issue. I'm not sure where you are from, but perhaps this is a regional thing? I know that growing up in the deep south it is/was very common for children to call adults (especially those that they were familiar with) as Mr/Miss First Name. I think it is also a question of formality vs informality. All close family friends and parents of my friends were referred to by their first name preceded by Mr or Miss. I also called my pastor growing up Pastor First Name. Everyone I knew of preferred this and would immediately request to be addressed as such upon meeting someone who used their last name.

Of course everyone decides how they would prefer for their children to show respect and there's nothing wrong with that, but I think that for most people who address adults by their first name it's not disrespectful, quite the contrary. Now I mean calling someone Miss Jane or Mr. Joe not "Hey, Bill how's it going." To me, and for many others that conveys the utmost respect.

[CPR]

One and three definitely. Two...not so much.

I am younger so I think that it has a lot to do with it. (I am not trying to be disrespectfull. Please hear me out!) I have noticed that my generation compared with my parent's and especially my grandparent's generation have a very different thought process when it comes to thank you cards.

My grandparents all agree that it is a must because they grew up with that being expected custom. My parents usually agree it is a must, but when asked why it is because that is what their parents told them they needed to do. My generation does not see it as a must (including myself) and this is why I think we feel this way.

When you look at the time my grandparents grew up in communication was limited. You either called your friends and family by telephone (if you had one) or you wrote them a letter. If someone sent you something or did something for you it was expected courtesy to write a thank you card because either you didn't have a phone or the phone was used in conjuction with the card.

When you look at my parents time frame you prOBably had a phone whether in or out of city by now. Cell phones were first being invented as well as the internet. Transportation was more accesible and faster too. In other words, the world was growing smaller and smaller every year. Because of this even though thank you cards where very much still expected they weren't always necessary as you could just as easily if not more quickly present yourself in person and thank them.

Now you get to my generation. We have home phones, cell phones, the well established World Wide Web with its e-mail, chat, twitter, and forums. We have in almost every way concievable made it easy and quick to get in touch with anybody around the world in a matter of seconds. The world is a much, much smaller place now; therefore, thank you cards have for the most part become absolete in our minds. When someone does something special for us the first thing that comes to our mind is not "I need to write them a thank you card," but "Hey! That is really neat what they did. I will send them an e-card or I will text them a funny message, etc."

With all of this being said, I do still think that a thank you card can be the most special because it takes the most time to sit down and write it.

This is just my thought on why people don't commonly send thank you cards anymore. So the next time someone doesn't send you a thank you card hopefully it will help to take this into consideration.

A Loving Brother,
Quiet Listener

Being young, I understand what you're saying. However, I think we have to know when thank you notes are warranted and when it may be okay to skip it. If your friend gives you a gift maybe a call or a text or a facebook message is perfectly acceptable. However, if Great Aunt Sally sends you a graduation gift, that prOBably warrants an actual note. Sometimes even with grandparents a nice phone call might be best, but you just have to know the person and the situation. That being said, I think it's a great practice to get young children in the habit of sending a note or picture or whatever depending on their age so that it's an established practice.

[amblivion]

I do have a question for you about the first name issue. I'm not sure where you are from, but perhaps this is a regional thing? I know that growing up in the deep south it is/was very common for children to call adults (especially those that they were familiar with) as Mr/Miss First Name. I think it is also a question of formality vs informality. All close family friends and parents of my friends were referred to by their first name preceded by Mr or Miss. I also called my pastor growing up Pastor First Name. Everyone I knew of preferred this and would immediately request to be addressed as such upon meeting someone who used their last name.

Those were my first thoughts as well. Growing up in Wyoming I called everyone Mr. and Mrs. (insert last name here). I called my pastor, Pastor Sell which was his last name. After moving to Nebraska, I started doing the same thing and was quickly corrected by people who just wanted me to call them by their first names. At first it took a lot of getting used to because everytime I called them Mr. or Mrs. they quickly reminded me again they do not want to be called Mr. or Mrs. but only their first names. I guess we thought it was more respectful to call them by what they wished to be called rather than call them by something they did not want to be called at all. I think it could be more of a regional thing. Here in the south where I am now everyone calls each other brother first name.

As for the standards of modesty, I do have a standard of modesty. I also write thank you's in appropriate situations.

[John81]

Great topic and some very good responses!

1. CPR touched on this well. It really depends upon what part of the country you are in as to what form of address is considered most appropriate and respectful. Growing up, and still today, we called folks by their first name or title followed by first name, such as Pastor Ted. Using last names is considered rude or as putting distance between them and yourself.

Whatever the respectful manner is in a particular region I do believe that's the appropriate way to speak. Over the past several decades there has been much change in this area with people specifically telling others not to speak respectfully. Such as saying, "Don't call me Mr. Jeff, (or Mr. Jones) that's my dad." Even pastors telling folks to just call them Ted rather than Pastor Ted (or Pastor Smith).

Today, most adults are shocked to hear my children respond to them with "yes, ma'am/sir" rather than just a "yeah" or "uh-huh" like most children do. Manners are not much considred or taught anymore.

2. Quiet Listener made some good OBservations here as did CPR in response. There is far too little real thankfulness so it's really important that we stand out in this area. For "simple" or "small" things I'll generally give a personal thank you and possible also an email thank you. Much more communication is done via email than regular mail and it's also a much quicker means of communication. However, there are times when a thank you card is certainly needful and appropriate. Our pastor and his wife did us a special kindness last year and I thanked them on the spot. I also sent an email conveying my thanks. As well, my wife and I made out a thank you card and sent it to them. As CPR also pointed out, special events where folks send gifts (graduations, weddings, etc.) should be followed up by a thank you card.

3. Modesty is something well follow which fewer and fewer do, even among Christians. I was looking over Facebook some time back and was shocked when I saw the profile pictures of professing Christian women I know or know of. Why do women, even Christian women, seem to think they must post a "sexy" photo of themselves in their profile?! One church I visited I had to spend so much time trying to avert my eyes from women wearing low cut blouses and dresses and bending over constantly that there was no way to feel comfortable there at all. One local Christian woman never wears anything revealing but here clothes are so form fitting I don't know how she gets them on or breathes in them.

The modestly issue is a real prOBlem, even with some Christian men dressing immodestly, though typically not at church yet. This prOBlem only seems to be getting worse with women proclaiming they have liberty to dress as they want and if some man lusts when they see her that's the man's prOBlem.

As for me and my family, we are dressed modest or we don't go out the door. Unlike some who will actually go to the store or gas station dressed in their pajamas! This seems to be a new trend that's now considered acceptable but something I find totally inappropriate and is most often very immodest as well.

[Annie]

I think Pastor J made some valuable OBservations in his first post. Truly, disrespect, ungratefulness, and immodesty are running rampant throughout society, and infiltrating even Christian homes. I do think it is important for all of us (not just kids) to behave respectfully, express thankfulness, and cultivate a modest demeanor. Individual expressions of these things may vary from region to region, family to family, church to church. I've commented below on "the way our family does it."

1. Our children (southern-born as they are) follow the regional tradition of using titles (Mr. or Ms.) along with the person's first name (e.g., "Ms. Ellen" and "Mr. BOB"). This might sound disrespectful to Yankees and Midwesterners (I was raised Midwestern), but on the other hand, Yankees and others are considered disrespectful by Southerners on a number of fronts, like not training their kids to say "Yes, Ma'am/Sir" in response to adults. My neighbor, who, unlike me, is a true Southern-born lady, has a lot to say about rude Yankees! So, our kids do use first names (with titles), and are also expected to respond with "Ma'am" and "Sir." (I will say that those who abhor calling adults by their first names don't usually apply that to family members..."Aunt Ellen" and "Uncle BOB." My husband's family from Indiana didn't even use the family titles, but just called their aunts and uncles by their first names. This was not considered disrespectful.)

2. We expect our kids to be grateful, and are training them to express that gratitude in the way that the giver of the gift would most appreciate. There's not a "one-size-fits-all" way to say thank you; the OBligatory, parent-dictated exercise of writing a thank you note ("Thank you for the ___. I like it because ___...") isn't always the best route to go. Of course for older people who appreciate that kind of thing, that's what we do. For younger people, who are fine with receiving an email/FB message/phone call, we do those things. The point is that gratitude is being communicated in a way that shows sincere thankfulness for the gift or service rendered.

3. Modesty...Although we do not limit ourselves to the styles of 20 years ago, we select clothing we believe follows Paul's instruction in I Timothy 2. We are hoping to develop an intuitive sense in the kids as to what is modest and what isn't. So far, so good, it seems. God is working in their hearts and ours in this area. Like you, I am grieved at so much of what I see Christian girls wearing.

[trc123]

We taught our children they must use the Mister or Misses or Miss when addressing adults. To enforce that by example, when I would meet one of their teenage friends I would introduce myself as such, "Hello, I'm Ted Case, but you can call me by my First Name, "Mr." They always got the drift without me having to be stern about it.

P.S. Names have been changed to protect the guilty!

[Alimantado]

Over in the UK, a school pupil must call their teacher by their title and surname and then 'Sir' or 'Miss' (not Madam) during conversation. Both children and adults call people whom they don't know very well by their title and surname and people whom they are more familiar with by their Christian name. Addressing people (young or old) 'sir' or 'madam' in the street still happens but is nowhere near as common as the use of 'mate' between men and the total absence of a form of address between men and women.

But an interesting twist on the surname=respectful/forename=familiar rule is that gentry and nOBility are to be called by their title and Christian name only. So 'Sir John Smith' is to be addressed as 'Sir John' and never 'Sir Smith'.

[amblivion]

What do you mean by Christian name? I am not familiar with this term.

[Alimantado]

Christian Name= first name.
Middle Name= name in the middle that not everyone has.
Surname= last name.

[chev1958]

The folks I deal with in my secular jOB blame my Southern upbringing when I say "sir" or "ma'am" to them, even if they're younger than me. Just being polite.

And I cringed just the other day when a teen-age daughter (who had just graduated high school) of a fellow preacher told her mother to be quiet while she was talking. Even my oldest daughter heard that, and after they left, she said she knew she'd get "killed" for saying that to us. The daughter still called me "Mr. Holmes," but showed me more respect than to her own parents. Sad.

[OFIB Preacher]

My wife and I were talking the other day about a number of old fashion ways that we have that people are "shocked" at. Some examples are:

1. Children calling adults by their last name. I was at a camp last week and I introduced my 12 year old son to the camp director (who I went to school with) as Bro. Last name. He then replied, just have him call be Bro. "first name". When I told him that my children are not permitted to call an adult by their first name, he was simply shocked. I took a group of teens canoeing during the week and the teens were calling their youth pastor by his first name, without the title "Bro" or "pastor". When I brought the topic up to the teens, they didn't think it was a big deal. I told them that it was disrespectful to an adult to call them by their first name. I was pleasantly surprised that he agreed, but he was not willing to require his teens to do it.

Growing up in an unsaved home, I would never have dare call an adult by their first name. I still to this day call older adults by their last name. It is a sign of respect.

2. Sending Thank you cards. We recently gave two 18 gallon containers of clothes to a family in our church. Though I don't expect anything from people in return, I do expect a thank you card from people. In discussing this topic with others, I have found out that people today believe that all you need to do is say "Thank you" and that is enough. I was taught that you have 2-3 days to get a thank you card out when people do something special for you. I have read different "manners" books and they say the same thing.


3. Modesty - I don't want to start an argument on this topic, but I am shocked every day about what "Christians" think are modest. When we compare how our friends dressed 20 years ago and now today, I am amazed at how the older our friends get, the worse they dress. We were looking at a friends facebook account and were amazed that my wife had to take the computer and change screens because the wife's blouse was barely covering her chest. 20 years ago, this couple held to high modesty standards.

I am not intending an argument on any of these subjects. I am curious though, do you hold to these beliefs also or not.

Brother, we're right there, with you! My wife and I, are in our early 30s and wonder which generation we should have been born in!
How true and sad.

[HappyChristian]

It is a shame, indeed, that respect is on the decline. We taught our son to answer with ma'am and sir - even though we've lived here in the north. Even here, people would be impressed when he would answer them. They would comment on how respectful he is. When he joined the Guard, he had to unlearn the "sir" part, though, unless he's talking to a commissioned officer. Sergeants don't get called sir. We raised him to address adults with Mr./Mrs./Miss before their surnames. Aunts and uncles were "aunt" and "uncle." One of my hubby's brothers told Josh once to just call him by his first name - we said no, that he is an uncle and, until Josh is an adult, that line had to stay there. Now, it's between him and his uncles. My husband and I both still refer to our aunts and uncles with their titles.

Thank you cards are important, too, I think. I was raised to write thank yous, and when our son was young,so was he. As he got older, though, my mother said she was fine with a phone call, just as long as the gift is recognized. We have given gifts to family members (nieces and nephews) and not even received a verbal thanks at the time of the giving. They get no more from us when that happens...Sad to say, though, we've experienced the lack of thank yous from people we've invited over for holidays, etc. - Christians! I do think fewer and fewer people are being taught to write thank you notes. And I think it's a shame.

Modesty is an issue in Christianity as well. It is a sad thing to see ladies who name the name of Christ yet don't know how to cover their bodies. Again, I think it's something that is not being properly taught. People claim to be "free" in Christ, with liberty to do what they want. They don't understand that the liberty we have is actually within boundaries (and we are free within those boundaries), and to go outside those boundaries in the name of freedom isn't true liberty or freedom, but rather license - and God forbids that!