Billy Graham

[JerryNumbers]

Why is it some of you call it an attack when its is simply pointed out that Billy Graham does not proclaim whole Bible truths with many examples having been given? Why take up for and defend someone who proclaims so many false doctrines?

I know of only one reason, you think he is right on the mark, you agree with him, therefore you must defend him.

By the way, there has been several who have tired their best to get Billy Graham back on the right path, but he refused, instead through the years he has joined together with many more false teachers.

Jesus, nor His 12 never defended false teachers as you're doing, but exposed them, and warned us about them.

Mt 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

[Jerry]

Futurehope, sorry about only part of the questions showing up at first. While I was replying, I mistyped and it posted my partial response. As soon as I realized it, I started editing it and posted the rest - but you must have seen the original incomplete post.

Has anyone that you know of actually confronted BG on his doctrinally incorrect statements and given him an opportunity to publicly repent of them?

Yes, actually there were various different solid preachers that tried to bring BG to account for his compromises. One of them being John R. Rice - BG had started out working with him, then one day came in and said he could no longer sign the statement of faith Rice's ministry required.

Futurehope, I don't apologize for my position and critique of BG as I believe it is a Biblical one - but I do apologize for my post earlier where it sounded to you as if I was stating BG was one of your idols. I was trying to make a general OBservation and see that I failed by wording it badly.

I am not denying BG has ever done good - my prOBlem is he has gotten to the point where the Bible says we are to warn against him. God doesn't say to do so unless someone is a popular preacher or world-renowned religious leader.

[Invicta]

A couple of points, or so.

1.) On the first page someone asked if BG preached repentance. I have not heard him for many years but I remember that he used to preach 'repentance' and said it was a turning around.

2.) BG never said those who responded were converts, only enquirers, when I heard him.

3.) FH has referred to the large numbers that BG has led to Christ. He has always sent them back to their own church if they had one even if it was RC.

4.) Of those I have personally known who responded to BG's message, 2 joined the Brethren and became charismatic. One joined the Church of England and eventually became an ordained minister. When I asked him if he was happy in the CE he thought a while and eventually said "Yes, if I joined another church I would be a schismatic." Three family members also became Cheistians at a BG rally, one, I believe, eventually fell away, and the other two went on to be fine Christians.

The comments on the number that BG has led to the Lord reminds me of a comment in a book regarding Billy Sunday who was said to have converted a million souls. "How many has he converted? - Not one."

[JerryNumbers]

I understand, those who meet people at invitation at a Billy Graham Crusade, if they're RCC, they have to refer them to a Catholic councilor and to the RCC, if a person says they parents are Methodist, they have to refer them to the Methodist councilor and Methodist Church, and so on.

That he makes this agreement with the area churches who support his crusade. of course the more area churches that support his crusade means a larger turn out, especially in the beginning.

Had a friend that participate in a local crusade that was sponsored by the local liberal SBC Church along with a few other churches that teaches works based salvation, he had to make such an agreement in order to be accepts as a councilor. He said he had to inquire with anyone who come forward if they had a preference, them send them to such a councilor of their preference.

I asked how he could agree to such a thing, at 1st he would always defend his actions, but finally agreed that him being a Baptist he should not have been involved in it.

Many seem they can compromise God's Word for the greater good, but all they accomplish is ending up in false teachings and promoting false teachings.

[futurehope]

Futurehope, sorry about only part of the questions showing up at first. While I was replying, I mistyped and it posted my partial response. As soon as I realized it, I started editing it and posted the rest - but you must have seen the original incomplete post.

Has anyone that you know of actually confronted BG on his doctrinally incorrect statements and given him an opportunity to publicly repent of them?

Yes, actually there were various different solid preachers that tried to bring BG to account for his compromises. One of them being John R. Rice - BG had started out working with him, then one day came in and said he could no longer sign the statement of faith Rice's ministry required.

Futurehope, I don't apologize for my position and critique of BG as I believe it is a Biblical one - but I do apologize for my post earlier where it sounded to you as if I was stating BG was one of your idols. I was trying to make a general OBservation and see that I failed by wording it badly.

I am not denying BG has ever done good - my prOBlem is he has gotten to the point where the Bible says we are to warn against him. God doesn't say to do so unless someone is a popular preacher or world-renowned religious leader.

This is a stance I can certainly agree with Jerry. You are spot on in the fact that we should warn others of false teaching lurking about in any ministry. My only point in all of this is that we try to remember that he is a brother in Christ who has strayed and we should make it a point to remember him in prayer and not forget that at one point in his life he did have positive works and impact on the Kingdom.

I also want to make it clear that I am not a supporter of BG nor am I defending him. I believe he has made some very poor choices and tarnished his ministry because of it. I also believe that God allows this in men like BG when their ministry becomes their's instead of God's. God has to allow them to be abased so that they will not be glorified, but rather He will.

I was not aware of the situation with John R. Rice, but thanks for sharing. I intend on bringing him up in another thread in the near future.

God Bless and thanks for your input,

Futurehope

[futurehope]

A couple of points, or so.

1.) On the first page someone asked if BG preached repentance. I have not heard him for many years but I remember that he used to preach 'repentance' and said it was a turning around.

2.) BG never said those who responded were converts, only enquirers, when I heard him.

3.) FH has referred to the large numbers that BG has led to Christ. He has always sent them back to their own church if they had one even if it was RC.

4.) Of those I have personally known who responded to BG's message, 2 joined the Brethren and became charismatic. One joined the Church of England and eventually became an ordained minister. When I asked him if he was happy in the CE he thought a while and eventually said "Yes, if I joined another church I would be a schismatic." Three family members also became Cheistians at a BG rally, one, I believe, eventually fell away, and the other two went on to be fine Christians.

The comments on the number that BG has led to the Lord reminds me of a comment in a book regarding Billy Sunday who was said to have converted a million souls. "How many has he converted? - Not one."

I wasn't sure if you were just trying to make OBservations out loud or if you were making a statement here. Please clarify if you were making a statement.

I will note though, that I don't believe that the fact that a person falls away after being saved necessarily falls on the one who led them to Christ, but it often falls on the one who was supposed to be discipling them.

God Bless

[lettheredeemedsayso]

I appreciate the zeal of those that visit this message board, that is why I enjoy posting here.

I may be wrong and it will not be the first or the last time but I believe that the scripture talks about "touching God's anointed". This statement was made more than once in scripture. I leave the men of God to the Lord for He is more than able to set them straight if they are out of line.

[Invicta]

I wasn't sure if you were just trying to make OBservations out loud or if you were making a statement here. Please clarify if you were making a statement.

I will note though, that I don't believe that the fact that a person falls away after being saved necessarily falls on the one who led them to Christ, but it often falls on the one who was supposed to be discipling them.

God Bless

Sorry I did not make it clear. I was just making OBservations, not points.

[Covenanter]

I came across this letter written by Ruth Graham concerning the rapture:

Prepare for tribulation.

[JerryNumbers]

As for her letter, I would rather just go by what the Bible teaches, and everyone would do well to do the same, those who are saved will not endure the tribulations, we who are saved would not have much of a "Blessed Hope" if we have to endure the tribulations.

She even says the pre-tribbers may be right, which of course they are.

[Invicta]

As for her letter, I would rather just go by what the Bible teaches, and everyone would do well to do the same, those who are saved will not endure the tribulations, we who are saved would not have much of a "Blessed Hope" if we have to endure the tribulations.

She even says the pre-tribbers may be right, which of course they are.

What about the hundreds/ thousands burnt to death for their faith, or the millions who died in other ways,and suffered at the hands of the RCC, the inquisition for example? Or those who died in that horrible idol, the Iron Virgin? These tribulations went on for hundreds of years, not 3

[Madeline]

I think what many people misunderstand about the pre-trib view is that God's "wrath" is poured out upon the unbelieving world, not believers. Those who have been martyred and tried for their faith didn't suffer God's wrath, but had their faith tested. Being burnt to death for one's faith is called persecution. During the tribulation, there will be Tribulation saints (those saved during the tribulation) who will suffer persecution from the Antichrist. However, the saved before the Tribulation will not be present to suffer God's "wrath" poured out upon unbelievers (cf. Rev, 9:3,4). Christians can suffer for their faith to show their loyalty to the Lord, but Christians will never suffer the wrath of God.

1 Thessalonians 5:9 - For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to OBtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Love,
Madeline

[futurehope]

What about the hundreds/ thousands burnt to death for their faith, or the millions who died in other ways,and suffered at the hands of the RCC, the inquisition for example? Or those who died in that horrible idol, the Iron Virgin? These tribulations went on for hundreds of years, not 3

[JerryNumbers]

What about the hundreds/ thousands burnt to death for their faith, or the millions who died in other ways,and suffered at the hands of the RCC, the inquisition for example? Or those who died in that horrible idol, the Iron Virgin? These tribulations went on for hundreds of years, not 3

[His by Grace]

Never had this explained in such a simple,straight-forward and clear way! Thank you for taking the time! !00% His Word... His Word is alway's true!! in Christ, His by Grace

I think what many people misunderstand about the pre-trib view is that God's "wrath" is poured out upon the unbelieving world, not believers. Those who have been martyred and tried for their faith didn't suffer God's wrath, but had their faith tested. Being burnt to death for one's faith is called persecution. During the tribulation, there will be Tribulation saints (those saved during the tribulation) who will suffer persecution from the Antichrist. However, the saved before the Tribulation will not be present to suffer God's "wrath" poured out upon unbelievers (cf. Rev, 9:3,4). Christians can suffer for their faith to show their loyalty to the Lord, but Christians will never suffer the wrath of God.

1 Thessalonians 5:9 - For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to OBtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Love,
Madeline