MacArthur

[Pastor Scott Markle]

17 hours ago, D-28 Player said:

The Calvinist would say that although God must regenerate a person before they can exercise faith that it's still their faith. 

So then, Brother "D-28 Player,"

While you could technically contend that within the Calvinistic system of belief justification and salvation are indeed THROUGH faith, would you acknowledge that in the Calvinistic system of belief REGENERATION is NOT through faith (because it come before faith according to the Calvinistic system)?

Edited April 4, 2017 by Pastor Scott Markle
punctuation

[Orval]

What a fascinating thread I should have read it earlier.  One of the things I have struggled with and spoke with my pastor about has been revealed by many in this thread. My question in general is this, how can those of the reformed position write excellent articles and books on bible truth and yet miss the mark so badly on salvation? Those of you who have posted on this forum have voiced the same question in a statement.  Calvinism and Reformed doctrine is like “rat poison” meaning how can they have valid insights into the truths of the Word of God and yet be so far off on salvation. 

Initially I was taken aback by what seemed to be aggressive and unkind answers by board members.  Until I recognized that within the responses of the various board members I found the seed thought for the answer I have been searching for.  Namely this, Satan does not care how much truth you possess if you your view of salvation is wrong. 

If one believes correctly that salvation is by grace through faith, that belief is of no value if that faith is placed in a system instead of Christ.  Do I place my faith in the finished work of Christ on the cross of Calvary or do I place my faith in a system that seemingly says, I am special because I was chosen? 

A system does not save, Christ saves.  A system does not take away the reproach of sin, a system does not open the portals of heaven, a system does not die for the sinner, a system does not seal until the day of redemption.  My fear, is that the reformed have placed their faith in a system that lifts up Christ, exalts Christ, lifts up the word of God and speaks highly of the word of God but has missed the personal Christ. 

[D-28 Player]

52 minutes ago, Orval said:

What a fascinating thread I should have read it earlier.  One of the things I have struggled with and spoke with my pastor about has been revealed by many in this thread. My question in general is this, how can those of the reformed position write excellent articles and books on bible truth and yet miss the mark so badly on salvation? Those of you who have posted on this forum have voiced the same question in a statement.  Calvinism and Reformed doctrine is like “rat poison” meaning how can they have valid insights into the truths of the Word of God and yet be so far off on salvation. 

Initially I was taken aback by what seemed to be aggressive and unkind answers by board members.  Until I recognized that within the responses of the various board members I found the seed thought for the answer I have been searching for.  Namely this, Satan does not care how much truth you possess if you your view of salvation is wrong. 

If one believes correctly that salvation is by grace through faith, that belief is of no value if that faith is placed in a system instead of Christ.  Do I place my faith in the finished work of Christ on the cross of Calvary or do I place my faith in a system that seemingly says, I am special because I was chosen? 

A system does not save, Christ saves.  A system does not take away the reproach of sin, a system does not open the portals of heaven, a system does not die for the sinner, a system does not seal until the day of redemption.  My fear, is that the reformed have placed their faith in a system that lifts up Christ, exalts Christ, lifts up the word of God and speaks highly of the word of God but has missed the personal Christ. 

If you really believe this is what Calvinists believe, then somebody has mislead you. 

No Calvinist would tell you to place your faith in some "system", but to repent and place your faith in Christ and His finished work on the cross.

 

[heartstrings]

16 hours ago, D-28 Player said:

The Calvinist would say that although God must regenerate a person before they can exercise faith that it's still their faith. 

I play a BR5-49

It's not their  faith if grace is "irresistable".

[D-28 Player]

9 minutes ago, heartstrings said:

It's not their  faith if grace is "irresistable".

The Bible says it's their faith and they believe it's their faith 

[heartstrings]

27 minutes ago, D-28 Player said:

The Bible says it's their faith and they believe it's their faith 

Yes, I know that. Grace is not. ''irresistable''.

[No Nicolaitans]

48 minutes ago, D-28 Player said:

If you really believe this is what Calvinists believe, then somebody has mislead you. 

No Calvinist would tell you to place your faith in some "system", but to repent and place your faith in Christ and His finished work on the cross.

 

Yet those "truths" from the Calvinist, Reformed Doctrine, Doctrines of Grace, etc. are based on the system of Calvinism, Reformed Doctrine, Doctrine of Grace, etc.

I was a finger player (when I played guitar). Of course I started off using a pick, but gave that up after turning to a classical style of music. 

[heartstrings]

1 minute ago, No Nicolaitans said:

Yet those "truths" from the Calvinist, Reformed Doctrine, Doctrines of Grace, etc. are based on the system of Calvinism, Reformed Doctrine, Doctrine of Grace, etc.

I was a finger player (when I played guitar). Of course I started off using a pick, but gave that up after turning to a classical style of music. 

Did ya break/lose yer fingers?

[Pastor Scott Markle]

17 hours ago, D-28 Player said:

The Calvinist would say that although God must regenerate a person before they can exercise faith that it's still their faith. 

15 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

So then, Brother "D-28 Player,"

While you could technically contend that within the Calvinistic system of belief justification and salvation are indeed THROUGH faith, would you acknowledge that in the Calvinistic system of belief REGENERATION is NOT through faith (because it come before faith according to the Calvinistic system)?

Brother "D-28 Player,"

Would you please answer my above question from yesterday?

 

[No Nicolaitans]

15 minutes ago, heartstrings said:

Did ya break/lose yer fingers?

Haha! I wish it were that! 

I'll be completely honest...my guitar playing was a source of pride in my life. Even when I played at church, I wanted to hear how "good" I was. I gave it up. It might not be that way now, but I've completely lost interest. :)

[D-28 Player]

31 minutes ago, No Nicolaitans said:

Yet those "truths" from the Calvinist, Reformed Doctrine, Doctrines of Grace, etc. are based on the system of Calvinism, Reformed Doctrine, Doctrine of Grace, etc

In your opinion But these things would not be familiar to Calvinists 

Edited April 4, 2017 by D-28 Player

[D-28 Player]

16 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

So then, Brother "D-28 Player,"

While you could technically contend that within the Calvinistic system of belief justification and salvation are indeed THROUGH faith, would you acknowledge that in the Calvinistic system of belief REGENERATION is NOT through faith (because it come before faith according to the Calvinistic system)?

First of all, there's no "technically" about it Calvinists believe explicitly, not "technically", that salvation is by faith. 

Second, regeneration is an act of God, not an act of man. 

 

[wretched]

36 minutes ago, D-28 Player said:

The Bible says it's their faith and they believe it's their faith 

So then why would any rational person buy into calvin's heresy? It cannot be both irresistible and personal accountability at the same time. 

Look at it this way friend, if God will not force His saints to feed on His Word daily and lose our earthly ambitions completely to Him as saved people do you rationally think He forces anyone lost to believe to begin with? Why? So He can watch His own hand-picked "chosen" disobey His commands? Sadly this whole Calvinist concept is egregious error. Free will is all there is in God's Word, it is on every page of His Word: the choices of men and women and the consequences from their choices. In a few rare instances God has used the choices men have made to harden their own hearts to His Glory by increasing that hardness but any reasonable person would realize that they were beyond His Grace already from all Bible indications. He does know their hearts without manipulating them initially.

Calvin must have been a democrat. The eternal destiny of every person is God's fault and has nothing to do with their choices. God says that "all are without excuse". Calvinism denies God and claims that most are WITH excuse.

 

[D-28 Player]

1 minute ago, wretched said:

So then why would any rational person buy into calvin's heresy? It cannot be both irresistible and personal accountability at the same time. 

Look at it this way friend, if God will not force His saints to feed on His Word daily and lose our earthly ambitions completely to Him as saved people do you rationally think He forces anyone lost to believe to begin with? Why? So He can watch His own hand-picked "chosen" disobey His commands? Sadly this whole Calvinist concept is egregious error. Free will is all there is in God's Word, it is on every page of His Word: the choices of men and women and the consequences from their choices. In a few rare instances God has used the choices men have made to harden their own hearts to His Glory by increasing that hardness but any reasonable person would realize that they were beyond His Grace already from all Bible indications. He does know their hearts without manipulating them initially.

Calvin must have been a democrat. The eternal destiny of every person is God's fault and has nothing to do with their choices. God says that "all are without excuse". Calvinism denies God and claims that most are WITH excuse.

 

Well that's a very creative interpretation of Reformed theology

[Orval]

1 hour ago, D-28 Player said:

If you really believe this is what Calvinists believe, then somebody has mislead you. 

No Calvinist would tell you to place your faith in some "system", but to repent and place your faith in Christ and His finished work on the cross.

 

Hello my friend,

First of all, I did not say the Calvinist believes this I said the Calvinist is placing his faith in a system.  Your words “you have been misled” is typical of a Calvinist response, most involved in Calvinism simply cannot respond to any challenge without attacking the integrity of the intellect of the one they are responding to.  “You don’t understand”, “you don’t grasp what you are talking about” “you have been misled” “you are ignorant of what Calvinism teaches” etc. 

So, let us examine, what Calvinist’s place their faith in, shall we?  Do you believe you are elect in eternity past?    I believe you will say yes to that question if not you are correct I have been misled by every Calvinist I have ever spoken with.

My second question is this, when did Jesus die for your sins and mine?  Once again, I believe you will say at Calvary.

Which question is more important to salvation?  That you are elect or that Jesus died for your sins?  You can be saved without election but you cannot be saved without Christ. 

When you place election as a prerequisite for salvation you are placing your faith in a system that begins with being elected by God.  If you remove election, then there is no purpose for the death of Christ for without election (the reformed system) why would Christ need to die for no one could go to heaven. 

On the other hand, I do not believe in election my faith is placed in the finished work of Christ, I do not need election, to verify I am saved. All I need to do is look to the finished work on the cross of Calvary.  If you need election then what is your faith in?

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.