Are Baptist Protestants?

[holster]

Sorry ptwild, the Baptists were around before the Protestant Reformation. They are definitely not the same as "Protestants."

[ptwild]

Oh, ptwild... you're just being funny now! Would you expect less from a parish priest? What do you think he was going to say about Baptists?

Peter Toon is an Anglican theologian, not a Catholic.

trc: Every group that we now call "protestant" was around prior to the Reformation (it's not like there was a magical moment in time when all of these branches magically appeared and that time just so happened to coincide with the "Reformation". However, they did not seek automony until the Reformation.

[HappyChristian]

Peter Toon is a Baptist theologian.

trc: Every group that we now call "protestant" was around prior to the Reformation (it's not like there was a magical moment in time when all of these branches magically appeared and that time just so happened to coincide with the "Reformation". However, they did not seek automony until the Reformation.

Baptists didn't seek autonomy after the reformation because they were already autonomous.

[ptwild]

Baptists didn't seek autonomy after the reformation because they were already autonomous.

With all due respect Happy, I don't believe you can find any historical evidence of a "Baptist Church" prior to the reformation. There is a reason they had to be "re-baptized."

[trc123]

With all due respect Happy, I don't believe you can find any historical evidence of a "Baptist Church" prior to the reformation. There is a reason they had to be "re-baptized."

There is ample proof of Baptists prior to the Protestant Reformation. They weren't a "denomination" in the way there are Presbyterians, Episcopal, American Baptist, Roman Catholic, etc. but local and independent bodies of baptist believers (many of which may have been known by another label) were around.

No Virginia, the Baptists are NOT Protestants!

[ptwild]

There is ample proof of Baptists prior to the Protestant Reformation. They weren't a "denomination" in the way there are Presbyterians, Episcopal, American Baptist, Roman Catholic, etc. but local and independent bodies of baptist believers (many of which may have been known by another label) were around.

No Virginia, the Baptists are NOT Protestants!

trc: Can you give me some citations to some of this information. I love reading theological history and have never seen anything along this line before. Thanks.

[trc123]

Here is a link to a book by Thomas Armitege on Google Books, free.

http://books.google.com/books?id=T-8PL_fyYEoC&dq=history+of+the+baptists+armitege&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&ei=xKKBSqi2D5OqswOz36SJCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5#v=onepage&q=&f=false

I own a first edition copy from 1887 (I think is the date). He traces Baptists via their distinctive doctrines and gives ample information concerning the various groups going way back before the Protestant Reformation.

The thing many people don't understand about Independent Baptists is; they are independent! They do not consider themselves to be a member of a denomination, but rather a part of a local body of believers (local Church) that is answerable to no other governing body other than the Lord Jesus Christ as he provides direction through the Holy Scriptures and his Holy Spirit.

[holster]

Peter Toon is an Anglican theologian, not a Catholic.

Please read my words. Nowhere did I say he was Catholic. I said he was a parish priest. Haven't you heard of Anglican Priests?

.

[holster]

Here is a link to a book by Thomas Armitege on Google Books, free.

http://books.google.com/books?id=T-8PL_fyYEoC&dq=history+of+the+baptists+armitege&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&ei=xKKBSqi2D5OqswOz36SJCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5#v=onepage&q=&f=false

I own a first edition copy from 1887 (I think is the date). He traces Baptists via their distinctive doctrines and gives ample information concerning the various groups going way back before the Protestant Reformation.

The thing many people don't understand about Independent Baptists is; they are independent! They do not consider themselves to be a member of a denomination, but rather a part of a local body of believers (local Church) that is answerable to no other governing body other than the Lord Jesus Christ as he provides direction through the Holy Scriptures and his Holy Spirit.

[ptwild]

Here is a link to a book by Thomas Armitege on Google Books, free.

http://books.google.com/books?id=T-8PL_fyYEoC&dq=history+of+the+baptists+armitege&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&ei=xKKBSqi2D5OqswOz36SJCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5#v=onepage&q=&f=false

I own a first edition copy from 1887 (I think is the date). He traces Baptists via their distinctive doctrines and gives ample information concerning the various groups going way back before the Protestant Reformation.

The thing many people don't understand about Independent Baptists is; they are independent! They do not consider themselves to be a member of a denomination, but rather a part of a local body of believers (local Church) that is answerable to no other governing body other than the Lord Jesus Christ as he provides direction through the Holy Scriptures and his Holy Spirit.

Thanks trc, I'll check it out.

[Invicta]

A good authority on this subject is Peter Toon's Protestants and Catholics. From a Baptist prospective, he points out the differences between Roman Catholics and the several protestant churches. He also shoots down the idea that there was ever any form of Christianity existing outside of the Roman Church until the Great Schism, followed by the English Reformation.

Whether he was a Baptist or Anglican theologian, he was wrong. There has nearly always, possibly always a line of bible believing churches outside of Rome. The waldensians, for instance claimed their separation from Rome back to the time when the Bishop of Rome was Sylvester, who was at the time of Constantine. There were the Paulicans and their various offshoots such as the Bogomils, the Poplicani and various others as well as the Leonists, the Petrobrussians, the Hussites and many more. Most of these groups held similar doctrines, but I have never read that any of them practised Baptism although it can be inferred in some of them in that their enemies said that they rejected baptism. This could mean that they rejected infant baptism practised by the Catholic Church.

To those who say there were baptists before the reformation, can you tell me if the taught reformed doctrine?

[bgann4546]

With all due respect Happy, I don't believe you can find any historical evidence of a "Baptist Church" prior to the reformation. There is a reason they had to be "re-baptized."

OH NO !! Tell me it ain't so !!! PtWild, you ain't one of those "gotta be baptized with water, before you can claim salvation, are you?

[JerryNumbers]

OH NO !! Tell me it ain't so !!! PtWild, you ain't one of those "gotta be baptized with water, before you can claim salvation, are you?

Ask ptwild if he thinks Baptist teaches Bible truths.

[ptwild]

OH NO !! Tell me it ain't so !!! PtWild, you ain't one of those "gotta be baptized with water, before you can claim salvation, are you?

Of course not bgann. My statement that you are referring to was intended to show that the reason the early baptist were called "re-baptizers" is because they were re-baptized after they left the RCC. If they had existed apart from the RCC, there would be no need for a re-baptism.

[ptwild]

Ask ptwild if he thinks Baptist teaches Bible truths.

You can ask me yourself Jerry. And yes, I believe that Baptist (for the most part, as it is hard to tell exactly what a "Baptist" is) teach "Bible truths." In fact, other than infant baptism, I don't see any difference between what my church believes and teaches and what the majority of people on this board believes and teaches.