Is Homosexuality a Sin?

[bzmomo7]

What about people with down syndrome, or some other form of mental retardation. I have a friend who's brother is mentally retarded and sometimes touches women inappropriately. Now, his condition does not "cause him to sin" but it does inhibit his ability to control his sin.

Ok, I will acknowledge that there are some severe physical abnormalities that can cause a person to be confused.......such as a mentally retarded person or lets even say one of those VERY rare instances in which a person is born with say a set of ovaries AND the male anatomy. HOWEVER, those are physical ABNORMALITIES, which have resulted in ABNORMAL behavior. The homosexual agenda is not to promote the idea that they are ABNORMAL and therefore require special status because physical abnormalities have caused them to have abnormal behaviors. No, they want us to become tolerant and think that their lifestyle is perfectly fine and "normal".......big difference.

[ptwild]

Ok, I will acknowledge that there are some severe physical abnormalities that can cause a person to be confused.......such as a mentally retarded person or lets even say one of those VERY rare instances in which a person is born with say a set of ovaries AND the male anatomy. HOWEVER, those are physical ABNORMALITIES, which have resulted in ABNORMAL behavior. The homosexual agenda is not to promote the idea that they are ABNORMAL and therefore require special status because physical abnormalities have caused them to have abnormal behaviors. No, they want us to become tolerant and think that their lifestyle is perfectly fine and "normal".......big difference.

No one is talking about the "homoesexual agenda" though. The discussion is whether a person can be genetically predisposed to an attraction to the same sex, which would be, as you call it, an abnormality because a normal genetically healthy person is not so predisposed.

[JerryNumbers]

17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

1 John 5:17 (KJV)

4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

1 John 3:4 (KJV)

15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

James 1:15 (KJV)

Simple, that is if we believe the Word and will stop trying to look for loopholes as if we were trying to make a way out where we could get off scot free for living in sin.

Sin is the choice of the person committing the sin.

And the only way to get forgiveness for our sin is to confess it, if we try to find loopholes, make excuses, blame someone else, we get no forgiveness.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 1:9 (KJV)

The big problem for most is they will not come into agreement with God, when they do this they receive no forgiveness, not none. Remember, one gate is straight and narrow, the other gate is broad and wide.

Very few go into the narrow gate, many there be that go into the wide gate, its each persons choice.

What we believe does not count, what the Bible says is the only thing that counts, the Bible says sin is a choice.

Sad, we have some here that are not accepting God's Word, but making their own doctrine, that is disagreeing with God.

[bzmomo7]

No one is talking about the "homoesexual agenda" though. The discussion is whether a person can be genetically predisposed to an attraction to the opposite sex, which would be, as you call it, an abnormality because a normal genetically healthy person is not so predisposed.

No, a person is not genetically programmed to be homosexual. A mentally retarded person can exhibit many abnormal behaviors, not just the one you described...and their condition certainly doesn't excuse sinful behavior or nullify it in any way. Many mentally retarded people need caregivers to take care of them all of their lives.....there is a big difference between that and a typical homosexual, don't you think? And you can say "No one is talking about the homosexual agenda" here, but I'll bet they'd be pretty ticked at your hinting that they are "abnormal", while trying to justify their supposed "predisposition". They want to have us turn God's Truth into a lie and say it's ok for them to continue on in their lifestyle, and even PROMOTE it in our public schools etc, but it is NOT ok. God's Word says it is wrong, period. I realize that the sin of homosexuality may even effect those we love, perhaps friends or family, but we cannot let it cloud the issue any more than we would if someone we loved committed murder or rape. We must take a stand with God's Word and not make excuses for sin..........as other's here have already said (over and over and over).....committing sin is a choice.

[HappyChristian]

No, a person is not genetically programmed to be homosexual. A mentally retarded person can exhibit many abnormal behaviors, not just the one you described...and their condition certainly doesn't excuse sinful behavior or nullify it in any way. Many mentally retarded people need caregivers to take care of them all of their lives.....there is a big difference between that and a typical homosexual, don't you think? And you can say "No one is talking about the homosexual agenda" here, but I'll bet they'd be pretty ticked at your hinting that they are "abnormal", while trying to justify their supposed "predisposition". They want to have us turn God's Truth into a lie and say it's ok for them to continue on in their lifestyle, and even PROMOTE it in our public schools etc, but it is NOT ok. God's Word says it is wrong, period. I realize that the sin of homosexuality may even effect those we love, perhaps friends or family, but we cannot let it cloud the issue any more than we would if someone we loved committed murder or rape. We must take a stand with God's Word and not make excuses for sin..........as other's here have already said (over and over and over).....committing sin is a choice.

And I'll tell you what - if I were the parent of a down's child, I'd be pretty upset with this silly comparison. Down's kids are born that way due to a mutation of the genes (which has been conclusively proven, not just ephemerally projected by some scientists...). They cannot help themselves, they did not do anything to become this way, they don't have a choice to be down's or not. Homosexuals do have a choice. If they didn't, there would be none that "go straight" when they get saved. Downs kids don't change after they are saved - and rest assured that some of them can be saved.

God says man that lieth with man is a sin. God says that lust is sin. God did not create 2 men to spend their lives together. It's one thing to share living expenses. It's quite another to live together as "companions."

[ptwild]

And I'll tell you what - if I were the parent of a down's child, I'd be pretty upset with this silly comparison. Down's kids are born that way due to a mutation of the genes (which has been conclusively proven, not just ephemerally projected by some scientists...). They cannot help themselves, they did not do anything to become this way, they don't have a choice to be down's or not. Homosexuals do have a choice. If they didn't, there would be none that "go straight" when they get saved. Downs kids don't change after they are saved - and rest assured that some of them can be saved.

God says man that lieth with man is a sin. God says that lust is sin. God did not create 2 men to spend their lives together. It's one thing to share living expenses. It's quite another to live together as "companions."

Happy, I agree 100% that homosexuality is a sin. However, I do believe there is at least enough scientific evidence to suggest (not prove) that homosexuals MAY have a genetic deficiency, something more akin to pedophiles. And if not a genetic disorder, maybe some form of chemical imbalance. And again, some political movement known as the "homosexual agenda" has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion. Also, are you suggesting that once a homosexual gets "saved" they will never have another homosexual desire again? Is that not the same as saying that one will never sin again?

[bzmomo7]

Happy, I agree 100% that homosexuality is a sin. However, I do believe there is at least enough scientific evidence to suggest (not prove) that homosexuals MAY have a genetic deficiency, something more akin to pedophiles. And if not a genetic disorder, maybe some form of chemical imbalance. And again, some political movement known as the "homosexual agenda" has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion. Also, are you suggesting that once a homosexual gets "saved" they will never have another homosexual desire again? Is that not the same as saying that one will never sin again?

Are you saying that pedophiles have a genetic deficiency, or am I misunderstanding you?

[HappyChristian]

bzmom: If sodomites do, pedophiles do. If sodomites do, rapists do. If sodomites do, murderers do - wouldn't you say? I'll bet your hubby would to, eh? Those are better comparisons than musically talented people or downs kids.

No, pt, I never said they'd never struggle with it. Because it's a sin they indulged in, even if they get saved, their flesh will fight them. Just like the alcoholic has to fight his desire for alcohol at times. Just like the whoremonger has to fight his desire for adultery. Just like the smoker has to fight his desire for a cigarette. Just like the glutton who is addicted to food. And so on. It's a sin, just as all that I've listed are sins. But Christ is in the cleansing business, and if a person, regardless of their sin, turns to Christ, He will forgive, and He will HELP that person to stay away from that sin (1 Cor. 10:13). But that person has to exercise some common sense and stay away from temptation, too!!!

A drug addict who has been saved still has to fight the terrible addiction his body has. Illicit sex, whether it is homosexual or heterosexual, can be just as addicting and would need to be fought against just as hard. But only through the liberating power of the Holy Spirit can that be done.

It could not be done if they were created to be homosexuals.

You may think the agenda (and you can deny they have one...even though they are very open about it!) has nothing to do with it, pt. But it does, actually. Because our society has been drenched with the idea that this is something that cannot be changed, therefore they were born that way...

[bzmomo7]

bzmom: If sodomites do, pedophiles do. If sodomites do, rapists do. If sodomites do, murderers do - wouldn't you say? I'll bet your hubby would to, eh? Those are better comparisons than musically talented people or downs kids.

No, pt, I never said they'd never struggle with it. Because it's a sin they indulged in, even if they get saved, their flesh will fight them. Just like the alcoholic has to fight his desire for alcohol at times. Just like the whoremonger has to fight his desire for adultery. Just like the smoker has to fight his desire for a cigarette. Just like the glutton who is addicted to food. And so on. It's a sin, just as all that I've listed are sins. But Christ is in the cleansing business, and if a person, regardless of their sin, turns to Christ, He will forgive, and He will HELP that person to stay away from that sin (1 Cor. 10:13). But that person has to exercise some common sense and stay away from temptation, too!!!

A drug addict who has been saved still has to fight the terrible addiction his body has. Illicit sex, whether it is homosexual or heterosexual, can be just as addicting and would need to be fought against just as hard. But only through the liberating power of the Holy Spirit can that be done.

It could not be done if they were created to be homosexuals.

You may think the agenda (and you can deny they have one...even though they are very open about it!) has nothing to do with it, pt. But it does, actually. Because our society has been drenched with the idea that this is something that cannot be changed, therefore they were born that way...

You're right on, HC. That was where I was going with it, too, but I wanted to make sure I was understanding him right, before he could twist things around again.

Pt, I think I'm done on this discussion. To me, it sounds like you have already made up your mind that you believe that homosexuals (and presumably pedophiles, too from what you said) are genetically programmed to be as they are. Even though, many people on here have shown you from the Bible that it isn't true. You refuse to take into account as well that the homosexual agenda is in the business of promoting their iniquity rather than begging for help from their sinful addiction......which demonstrates that they,themselves do not believe they are abnormal in any way shape or form ,(genetically or otherwise) and would rather be justified in their sin then repent of it. Sounds like much of the rest of our lost and dying world who need to get saved.

[ptwild]

bzmom: If sodomites do, pedophiles do. If sodomites do, rapists do. If sodomites do, murderers do - wouldn't you say? I'll bet your hubby would to, eh? Those are better comparisons than musically talented people or downs kids.

No, pt, I never said they'd never struggle with it. Because it's a sin they indulged in, even if they get saved, their flesh will fight them. Just like the alcoholic has to fight his desire for alcohol at times. Just like the whoremonger has to fight his desire for adultery. Just like the smoker has to fight his desire for a cigarette. Just like the glutton who is addicted to food. And so on. It's a sin, just as all that I've listed are sins. But Christ is in the cleansing business, and if a person, regardless of their sin, turns to Christ, He will forgive, and He will HELP that person to stay away from that sin (1 Cor. 10:13). But that person has to exercise some common sense and stay away from temptation, too!!!

A drug addict who has been saved still has to fight the terrible addiction his body has. Illicit sex, whether it is homosexual or heterosexual, can be just as addicting and would need to be fought against just as hard. But only through the liberating power of the Holy Spirit can that be done.

It could not be done if they were created to be homosexuals.

You may think the agenda (and you can deny they have one...even though they are very open about it!) has nothing to do with it, pt. But it does, actually. Because our society has been drenched with the idea that this is something that cannot be changed, therefore they were born that way...

This assumes that the scientist that proffer that there may be a genetic predisposition to homosexuality or a chemical embalance that causes confusion regarding gender identify are some how in on a big conspiracy in which they will receive some benefit if everyone believe what they say (which is silly because if everyone believes it/accepts it as true they would not pay for scientific research and these same scientist would be out of work).

I don't think it is fair to lump homosexuals and pedophiles in with murderers. A murderer does not claim a natural predisposition to kill. Most (a grand majority) murders are committed out of anger or in the commission of a crime. People just don't murder for the sake of murdering (save the exceptional seriel killer) or because they just can't control themselves. Homosexuals and pedophiles are, for whatever reason, are sexually attracted to members of their own sex and children, respectively. Homosexuals aren't sexually attracted to their own sex because of anger or to cover up a crime. I believe that homosexuality is a choice, but I do believe there is some credible evidence that they are born with a predisposition to making that choice. They could choose to not be a homosexual, but it is a harder choice.

[JerryNumbers]

Getting saved will not take away the desire to sin, nor will it put you into a state that you will not sin.

Paul said it good, I do that which I know not to do, that which I know to do I do not, its sin that dwells in me.

But, we can over come, not on our own, that is in our own power, but thru Christ.

7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
2 Cor 4:7 (KJV)

For though he was crucified through weakness, yet he liveth by the power of God. For we also are weak in him, but we shall live with him by the power of God toward you.
2 Cor. 13:4

Of course to have this power we have to surrender unto the Lord thy God, accept Jesus as Savior. Jesus will do His part of it, but we have to do our part too. Is it going to be easy? No. But it being so hard, many times that is our very own fault, consequences for our sins against God. Most time if we would obey God in the 1st place we would not have to endure the consequences of our sins.

One problem is, no one wants to endure the consequences of their sins, they want Jesus to deliver them without them making any efforts their self, but remember the promise.

5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
Heb 13:5 (KJV)

Even if they, but they're not, born with something that gave them a tenancy to be a homosexual, it would still be a sin.

[John81]

17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

1 John 5:17 (KJV)

4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

1 John 3:4 (KJV)

15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

James 1:15 (KJV)

Simple, that is if we believe the Word and will stop trying to look for loopholes as if we were trying to make a way out where we could get off scot free for living in sin.

Sin is the choice of the person committing the sin.

And the only way to get forgiveness for our sin is to confess it, if we try to find loopholes, make excuses, blame someone else, we get no forgiveness.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 1:9 (KJV)

The big problem for most is they will not come into agreement with God, when they do this they receive no forgiveness, not none. Remember, one gate is straight and narrow, the other gate is broad and wide.

Very few go into the narrow gate, many there be that go into the wide gate, its each persons choice.

What we believe does not count, what the Bible says is the only thing that counts, the Bible says sin is a choice.

Sad, we have some here that are not accepting God's Word, but making their own doctrine, that is disagreeing with God.

Amen! Good post.

After five pages of this it's becoming evident we are reaching the point of "casting pearls before swine". The Word has been put forth continually and the Word has been rejected continually. The Bible calls that rebellion.

As you say, rather than seeking the truth of God's Word and living by God's Word, some are seeking to justify their own ideas.

[Alimantado]

Scripture is clear that sin is a choice. We can choose who we are attracted to....All men are tempted' date=' some more by this or that sin than others, but [b']all are tempted and all have a CHOICE as to whether or not they give in to temptation or not.

First you argue that temptation itself is a choice (what we are attracted to) and then you argue that temptation is certain, but acting on it is a choice. Which of those is true?

Also, is there any difference between:

I cannot help who I am attracted to...What we can control is what we do with that attraction. Do we act on it and engage in sexual activity' date=' or do we abstain? That is where the sin comes in.[/quote']

[Revelation3:20]

Alimantado, I think this is the answer to your question.

"James 1:13-16 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. Do not err, my beloved brethren."

"1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."

From this you can see that we all CAN be drawn by our "own" lusts, what ever they are, but it is a choice we make. Now that said I think from

Romans 1:24-28

it is clear that homosexuality is not something that some people are "born" with a natural tendency towards, but that it is something that can develop in some as a result of a reprobate mind.

[Wilchbla]

The old saying goes, "You can't keep the birds from flying over your head but you can keep them from making a nest in your hair." This would apply to those who have homosexual thoughts or struggles with effeminate behavior. (As Paul said, "Quit you like men" or ACT like a man).

It wouldn't matter if someone was born "gay". The behavior is still forbidden. We are born sinners and that behavior is forbidden. We doesn't excuse our sin because we are sinners.

Interestingly, the first people in the Bible called "sinners" were the men of Sodom. (Genesis 13:13)