Exception to Once Saved, Always Saved?

[Geheimlich Guy]

I was saved about 10 years ago, and I'm sure I was saved. God transformed my life and proved Himself to me over and over. I've been a member of an IFB church ever since, and I always believed that once a person was saved, nothing could separate him from the love of God, nothing could cause him to be unsaved.

About a month ago I started questioning God about hell. I think it started because I was thinking about my dead grandfather, whom I loved very much, and who died when I was a child, years before I was saved. I never got a chance to witness to him. I should have just trusted God with the whole thing, but instead I got angry with Him and started questioning His fairness in sending my grandfather to hell, which led to questioning the billions of others in hell. I told God that if He was going to send all these people to hell just for being what they were born as, He could send me there too, and that I didn't want to worship a God who would do that, I didn't want to be a Christian anymore. I even started looking into practicing Gnostic "Christianity," blatant paganism, and all sorts of other stuff, anything that would do away with the concept of hell.

This all lasted a week or two. Then one day it just hit me, "what in the world are you doing?" It was like waking up from a bad dream, except it wasn't a dream, I really did forsake God. I told Him (to His face, as it were) that I didn't want Him anymore and blatantly pursued false religions. Then a passage came to mind. Two passages, actually, from Hebrews 6 and 10, the parts in bold below in particular.

I've had many tearful prayers since "waking up," and the tears are welling up now thinking about it, but I'm still not convinced whether or not God will take me back. On one hand, it seems that once I've forsaken the one remedy for my sin, there is no other remedy, no remaining sacrfice that is available, that Christ would have to be crucified anew. On the other hand, there's the parable of the prodigal son, the statement that nothing is impossible with God. To be honest, it seems that the Scriptural support is stronger for the first position. I don't know how else to make sense of the passages below except to conclude that all that awaits me now is "a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation." I certainly deserve it.

Anyway, I've discussed part of this with my pastor, who is also one of my best friends, but to be honest I'm to embarassed about the whole thing to discuss it in full with him. I just can't believe this whole thing is happening to me, it makes me sick.


Hebrews 6

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit. For [b]it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh[/b], and put him to an open shame. For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Hebrews 10

[b]Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering;[/b] (for he is faithful that promised;) And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. [b]For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins[/b], But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: [b]Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?[/b] For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

[AirForceMom54]

[b] Guy, If you were truly saved back 10 years ago. Then you are still saved today. What shall separate us from the love of God...NOTHING. The same grace that saved you, is the same grace that keeps you saved. Nothing, not even yourself can pluck you out of the Father's hands if you are truly saved.

In Ephesians 4:30 it says this: And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

God gave the greatest gift of all to us, His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ. Jehovah God is not an "Indian Giver" He never takes back the gift of salvation...it's too costly to play with like that.

Saved and Secure by grace.

AirForceMom54[/b]

[deputydog530]

Here is the short answer. If you are saved, you are saved forever. You are sealed by the Holy Ghost Eph 1;13 No one can take you from God John 10-28-29

It has been a while since I studied Hebrews but reading in context I believe Hebrews 6 is talking about one who has heard the gospel, expirenced the blessings of God, yet rejected his free gift of Salvation. My sister knows the gospel and knows she needs to be saved yet refuses to receive the free gift of salvation for fear of "missing out" on something. It makes me very sad.

Hebrews 10 is a warning of Judgement. A child of God is capable of sin. ANY SIN. God is long suffering yet if we sin and continue in that sin there will be judgement but we are still saved 1 Corinthians 3.

I hope this helps. Sorry its short, im at work right now. If you like I can do a more through study for you and send it to you.

Read The book of Romans. See where Paul even talks about doing the things he should not do and not doing the things he should for God.

God Bless

[lettheredeemedsayso]

[quote]
God is not an "Indian Giver"
[/quote]

that is good :D

[Geheimlich Guy]

[quote="deputydog530"]
Here is the short answer. If you are saved, you are saved forever. You are sealed by the Holy Ghost Eph 1;13 No one can take you from God John 10-28-29

It has been a while since I studied Hebrews but reading in context I believe Hebrews 6 is talking about one who has heard the gospel, expirenced the blessings of God, yet rejected his free gift of Salvation. My sister knows the gospel and knows she needs to be saved yet refuses to receive the free gift of salvation for fear of "missing out" on something. It makes me very sad.

Hebrews 10 is a warning of Judgement. A child of God is capable of sin. ANY SIN. God is long suffering yet if we sin and continue in that sin there will be judgement but we are still saved 1 Corinthians 3.

I hope this helps. Sorry its short, im at work right now. If you like I can do a more through study for you and send it to you.

Read The book of Romans. See where Paul even talks about doing the things he should not do and not doing the things he should for God.

God Bless
[/quote]

I'm not sure that Hebrews 10 is talking about just any sin; in the context it seems that the "willful sin" spoken of is specifically the sin of not "holding fast the profession of our faith," especially given the description of the person who does this as counting the blood of the covenant an unholy thing. I don't think that a Christian who backslides into sin is counting the blood of the covenant an unholy thing. The only way I can think of to count the blood an unholy thing is to reject it. That's why I came to the conclusion that this verse seems to be saying that if a Christian, being sanctified with the blood of the covenant, gives up his profession of faith, there remains no more sacrifice for his sin, i.e. he's not saved anymore. Before all of this happened, I used to think that this was all hypothetical, that God was saying that if a Christian gave up his profession, he would be unsaved, but that it could never actually happen. Well, now I know better. Or maybe I didn't really give up my profession of faith because I came back to God after a short time. I don't know.

[Bakershalfdozen]

Matthew 26:69 Now Peter sat without in the palace: and a damsel came unto him, saying, Thou also wast with Jesus of Galilee.

Matthew 26:70 But [b]he denied before them all[/b], saying, I know not what thou sayest.

Matthew 26:71 And when he was gone out into the porch, another maid saw him, and said unto them that were there, This fellow was also with Jesus of Nazareth.

Matthew 26:72 And [b]again he denied with an oath[/b], I do not know the man.

Matthew 26:73 And after a while came unto him they that stood by, and said to Peter, Surely thou also art one of them; for thy speech bewrayeth thee.

Matthew 26:74 [b]Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know not the man[/b]. And immediately the cock crew.

Matthew 26:75 And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly.




A few days later...



John 21:15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, Lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.

John 21:16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, Lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

John 21:17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, Lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

[Anon]

There is not one person in the Bible who was saved and then went to hell. Everyone was either saved, or lost.

Think about Lot, who did not even act like a Christian yet the NT tells us he was "righteous". Lot did not even want to leave "sin city". Yet he was a saved man.

I am sure that is the exception rather than the rule but if you are 100% sure you got saved ten years ago, then the same power that you trusted to save you is keeping you saved...God says in Ephesians we have the "earnest", or down payment, of the spirit living in our hearts. God already gave you the down payment, you can't back out on him. :)

[Jerry]

Hebrews 6 and 10 are dealing with those who clearly understand salvation - clearly understand what the OT pointed towards, ie. the sacrifice of Christ for their sins - and rejected it knowingly, after having been convicted and enlightened. The Bible teaches that once we are saved, we are in Christ's hands and in the Father's hands. Romans 8 is a very good chapter - those He called and Justified, He glorified. God used past tense there, though it hasn't happened yet - but BECAUSE IT WILL HAPPEN, HE CONSIDERS IT ALREADY DONE IN HIS MIND.

Romans 8:29-30 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (Compare with John 5:24)

Lest someone misunderstands that verse and tells you that you walk after the flesh and therefore are condemned:
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

If you are saved (ie. repented of your sins and turned to Christ for salvation), then the Holy Spirit is praying for you:
Romans 8:26-27 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Your Heavenly Father is for you:
Romans 8:31-32 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

Jesus is for you, and no one else has the power to condemn you:
Romans 8:33-34 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Romans 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
NOTHING and NO ONE.

Romans 8:38-39 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, [size=24]nor any other creature[/size], shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Last I checked, you were still part of God's creation - and in fact, if you already came to Christ for salvation, you are a new creature - so even you cannot separate yourself from God's love. Sure we can do things that bring chastisement upon us - but the Lord has promised never to leave us nor forsake us, that He is with us always.

[size=24]And guess what? God is not a quitter!!!

What He has begun, He will finish! His integrity is on the line![/size]

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

2 Timothy 1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

Don't walk by your feelings, which are ever changing; walk by faith.

God disciplines His wayward children - first He speaks, then He spanks, then He scourges, then He separates by death - and hey, you're still alive, so He didn't need to go that far to bring you to repentance. Yes, you committed a grievous sin - but the same God who forgave you when you came to the cross STILL forgives you today - in fact, when you came to Christ, IN HIS SIGHT HE FORGAVE ALL THE SINS YOU WOULD EVER COMMIT, PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE - this was in your future. Hm, I remember a phrase a little further up this post...

Romans 8:38-39 [b]For I am persuaded[/b], [b]that neither[/b] death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor [b]things to come[/b], Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, [b]shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.[/b]

Please read this:
[b][url=http://www.onlinebaptist.com/messageboards/viewtopic.php?p=60595#60595]God's Complete Forgiveness In Jesus Christ[/url][/b]

God bless you, prodigal brother - come back home! Your Father is still waiting with open arms!

[Pastorj]

:goodpost:

[Sojourner]

Excellent post,Jerry (as usual)!

I agree that Heb.10 is talking about Jews who were introduced to the Gospel of Christ and even "embraced" it to a certain point, but obviously not to the point of true salvation.

I know it's hard to imagine people we love, our own flesh and blood, who were "good" people in life, spending eternity in hell. I have loved ones who I'm quite sure are there. But we also know that "all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags", and we either come God's Way or go our own way, which leads to damnation.

The fact that you have realized your sin and desire to repent of it, is a good indication to me that you are His child. And God keeps His kids!

[Mountainview]

[quote="Geheimlich Guy"]
It was like waking up from a bad dream, except it wasn't a dream, I really did forsake God. I told Him (to His face, as it were) that I didn't want Him anymore and blatantly pursued false religions.
[/quote]

Guy, Check out these verses in 2 Timothy 2:11-13
[quote="Paul"]
It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: [b]If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.[/b]
[/quote]

The above verses are of course speaking to believers. Do an in-depth study on the New Covenant and you will begin to understand just how much God really loves you.


Mountainview :)

[Geheimlich Guy]

God bless you all for your replies, I appreicate each one of them. I had a wonderful time in church on Sunday; it feels so good to be back with God's people that I can't describe it. It feels I've been away for a long, long time although it's been only a few weeks. It's still amazing to me how far I managed to slide in such a short time, and how quickly God yanked me back out of the mess I'd made. He is so good!!!

Thanks

[Jerry]

Good to hear. Welcome back!

[Sojourner]

[quote="Geheimlich Guy"]
He is so good!!!
[/quote]

You got that right! He surely is!!

Glad to hear the good news.

[Chelle]

Welcome back, Guy!

I was a "prodigal daughter", so I know what you've gone through. He cares for His own, and leads us back into the fold with that rod and staff! :)

Someone once told me "If you're afraid you've lost your salvation, you haven't -- because if you were lost, you wouldn't care."

Maybe I'm not quoting him correctly, but does it make any sense? :D