Happy 200th Birthday to a good man...

[dwayner79]

Abraham Lincoln

[John81]

Well, those closest to him all testified he wasn't a Christian so he couldn't have been a good man.

Anyway, the only reason I bothered to post in this thread is because I happened to speak to a liberal today. This woman heard today for the first time what Lincoln's views of blacks were and she asked me if I knew about this. We ended up in a fairly long talk about Lincoln's views on race, his disregard for the Constitution, his hypocritical ways, his ungodliness, etc. Eventually another woman joined in on the conversation too.

Slowly but surely the truth is once again coming to the surface. The myth of Lincoln, FDR, JFK and others are all crumbling.

[jchahl]

whew... I thought you were gonna say Charles Darwin. I saw more coverage on Darwin on campus (WVU) today than Lincoln. I don't care for either one, but what's going on?

[John81]

Isn't it some kind of Darwin anniversary this year too?

Rest assured, if something (or someone) is being heavily promoted by liberals and in liberal institutions there's something wrong with it (or them).

[dwayner79]

Lincoln and Darwin were both born on the same day, 200 years ago yesterday.

Lincoln was a good leader, during a bad time. I knew I could not in good conscience put "great" man, but as far as presidents go, Lincoln was IMO a good one.

The topic title was meant to do what jchahl fell for ;-)

[okjac80]

..........

Slowly but surely the truth is once again coming to the surface. The myth of Lincoln, FDR, JFK and others are all crumbling.

'bout time...... :roll

[John81]

Lincoln and Darwin were both born on the same day, 200 years ago yesterday.

Lincoln was a good leader, during a bad time. I knew I could not in good conscience put "great" man, but as far as presidents go, Lincoln was IMO a good one.

The topic title was meant to do what jchahl fell for ;-)

How can a president who trampled upon what this country was founded upon and who ignored the Constitution and failed to keep his oath of office be considered a good leader?

I know it's pure speculation, but I do actually believe Lincoln may have had the opportunity to be a good leader after The War ended if he had lived. His views and those of the Radical Republicans who ended up running the country for decades were very different with regards to how things should be handled after The War.

[pneu-engine]

Abraham Lincoln

:thumb A most hearty AMEN, DW. :Green

IMHO, Abe Lincoln was by far our very best and (my favorite) president.

[pneu-engine]

Well, those closest to him all testified he wasn't a Christian so he couldn't have been a good man.

Anyway, the only reason I bothered to post in this thread is because I happened to speak to a liberal today. This woman heard today for the first time what Lincoln's views of blacks were and she asked me if I knew about this. We ended up in a fairly long talk about Lincoln's views on race, his disregard for the Constitution, his hypocritical ways, his ungodliness, etc. Eventually another woman joined in on the conversation too.

Slowly but surely the truth is once again coming to the surface. The myth of Lincoln, FDR, JFK and others are all crumbling.

-81,

There are ALSO people who claimed to be close to Jesus Christ while He was here on earth that said disparaging things about Him. Would you believe them too??????????

[Wilchbla]

Lincoln did trample on the Constitution but he was forced to because of Europe. The Europeans powers, including the Vatican, still wanted control of what they thought was theirs and they were doing this by splitting up the Union. A lot has been written on this but check out William Grady's book "What Hath God Wrought: A Biblical Interpretation of Amercian History." Lincoln knew that popish people were going to try to kill him. Even to this day there are politicians who would love to bring us back under European powers.

Bill

[John81]

:sad

[Guest Guest]

How can a president who trampled upon what this country was founded upon and who ignored the Constitution and failed to keep his oath of office be considered a good leader?

I have to agree with Brother John here.
God bless,
Crushmaster.

[okjac80]

I have to agree with Brother John here.
God bless,
Crushmaster.

makes 2 of us.....

[LAF]

:thumb A most hearty AMEN, DW. :Green

IMHO, Abe Lincoln was by far our very best and (my favorite) president.

and I agree with these 2

[John81]

Oh, that [his Thanksgiving Message] is some of Seward's nonsense, and it pleases the fools.
-- Abraham Lincoln, to Judge James M Nelson, in response to a question from Nelson: "I once asked him about his fervent Thanksgiving Message and twitted him with being an unbeliever in what was published." Quoted from Franklin Steiner, The Religious Beliefs of Our Presidents, p. 138

What is to be, will be, and no prayers of ours can arrest the decree.
-- Abraham Lincoln, quoted by Mary Todd Lincoln in William Herndon's Religion of Lincoln, quoted from Franklin Steiner, The Religious Beleifs of Our Presidents, p. 118

It will not do to investigate the subject of religion too closely, as it is apt to lead to Infidelity.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Manford's Magazine, quoted from Franklin Steiner, The Religious Beliefs of Our Presidents, p. 144

The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession.
-- Abraham Lincoln, quoted by Joseph Lewis in "Lincoln the Freethinker"

"Mr. Lincoln had no hope, and no faith, in the usual acceptation of those words."
-- Mary Todd Lincoln, to Colonel Ward H Lamon, in his Life of Abraham Lincoln, p. 459, quoted from Franklin Steiner, The Religious Beleifs of Our Presidents, p. 118

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Herndon's "Life of Lincoln" is conceded by all fair-minded persons to be the most accurate picture of the life of the sixteenth President of this country that has ever been written. Some maintain that Herndon was to Lincoln what Boswell was to Johnson. Men prominent in the higher walks of life, members of Congress, Senators, Judges, members of the President's cabinet, intimate friends and relatives and even his wife, testify that Lincoln was an unbeliever, an infidel, a Freethinker. Strangers, a few casual acquaintances and a number of clergymen, known and unknown, maintain that he was a Christian. And yet the two ministers most intimately acquainted with Lincoln -- Bishop Simpson and the Reverend P. D. Gurley -- do not support the contention of their more zealous, but less truthful fellow "divines."

It is very curious indeed, that if Lincoln were a Christian, as some say, nowhere in any of his writings does there appear a single mention of Jesus Christ. In his public addresses, official documents and his private correspondence, never once did he express a belief in any doctrine that would even remotely claim him as a Christian.

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Abraham Lincoln actually said: "Christianity is not my religion and the bible is not my book. I have never united myself in any church because I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian doctrine and dogma." Lincoln never joined any church and was never baptized, looking upon it as superstition. His wife said: "my husband is not a Christian"

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You cannot get better testamony or witnesses to a fact then those who actually knew him in person like his wife Mary Todd Lincoln, who stated that her husband NEVER was Christian or a believer, and this was true to his death. She and other first hand witnesses told of how the only time Lincoln went into a Christian church was to openly mock it and disrupt it with his nasty remarks. Lincoln's own friends and associates stated that Lincoln told them that he hated Christianity and the Bible, and he had, in fact, written a book stating his hatred for the Bible and Christianity, one friend grabbed the book from him and burned it in an oven on the spot, telling Lincoln he had to begin to be more secretive and discreet about this issue if he wanted to run for office !!

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Carl Sandburg, in volume one of his six-volume set on Lincoln's life, observed the following: "Close friends of Lincoln, such as his law partner Herndon and Matheny, who stood as best man at his wedding, had a notion that Lincoln was a sort of infidel. They said Lincoln told them he did not believe the Bible was the revelation of God. 'Lincoln did tell me that he did write a little book on infidelity...I got that from Lincoln's mouth' said Matheny. 'An infidel, a theist, a fatalist,' was Herndon's notion...Still others like Jesse W. Fell at Bloomington felt that he held a good deal of the same views as the famous heterodox New England preachers, Theodore Parker and William Ellery Channing." If, at best, even that statement by Fell is accurate, it is worth noting that Parker and Channing were Unitarians! So can we, at best, possibly say that Lincoln might have been some sort of Unitarian? That's a long way from Christian.

William Herndon, himself, wrote a book called Life Of Lincoln and he stated, quite forthrightly, that "Lincoln was a deep-grounded infidel. He disliked and despised churches. He never entered a church except to scoff and ridicule. On coming from a church he would mimic the preacher. Before running for any office he wrote a book against Christianity and the Bible."

According to George Edmonds in Facts And Falsehood, as recorded on page 53 of the book: "A man named Hill was greatly shocked, urged Lincoln not to publish it. Urged it would kill him politically. Hill got the book in his hands, opened the stove door, and it went up in flames and ashes. After that, Lincoln became more discreet..." Lincoln's relatives and friends testified that he "scoffed and derided religion and the Bible."