The KJV

[kevinmiller]

LOL, I wouldn't mind taking a look at it.

[Randy]

If you take away the Thee/Ye's then how do you distinguish between singular and plural you?

If you have a copy handy, one of the litmus tests that I use is 1 Corinthians 1:21. Does this version call the preaching or the message foolish?



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[Kubel]

y'all and them'thar!

[Alen]

If you take away the Thee/Ye's then how do you distinguish between singular and plural you?

If you have a copy handy, one of the litmus tests that I use is 1 Corinthians 1:21. Does this version call the preaching or the message foolish?



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The passage isn't say either is foolish, it's only foolish to the unsaved. I don't know why people get worked up about that passage. (If I am thinking of the right passage)

-Alen

[Tim]

KJV

1Cr 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Evidence Bible

21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

For those who would like to see for themselves
http://www.evidencebible.com/newtestament.shtml

[Randy]

Many of the versions based on corrupt documents (like NIV) say the "foolishness of what was preached".

There is a major difference between preaching being foolishness and the message preached (the Gospel) being foolish.

[Kubel]

1 Corinthians 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

So when you read 1 Corinthians 1:21 in a MV, it might help to read some of the other verses in the chapter to get an understanding before condemning the way it is worded. What is it they say, "a text without context is pretext" :.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written:

"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."

Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength.

Makes perfect sense to me, both in the KJV and NIV. The "foolishness" is what the world calls it.

[Guest Guest]

But that completely changes what the Bible is saying here. God said that preaching is foolishness. That's what God said, not the world. Saying that the world believes the message to be foolish totally changes what God said.

I'm going to be a preacher. I have preached before; let me tell you, preaching is foolishness! Some crazy guy, behind a pulpit, shooting off his mouth; yelling, screaming, shouting. Yep, that's pretty much foolishness. But that's what God chose!

I'll be a fool for Jesus, no problem! :mrgreen:

[JJJ4given]

God said that preaching is foolishness. That's what God said, not the world. Saying that the world believes the message to be foolish totally changes what God said.

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

So is God of them that perish according to this verse if he sees preaching as foolishness(according to you)?



1 Corinthians 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

And I guess God is Greek now too!

1 Corinthians 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

If you take it all in context, brother, it is not saying God sees preaching as foolishness but the world does see it as foolishness. Anyone living according to the flesh(lost or saved) will see spiritual things as foolishness:

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

God bless!

[Alen]

Praise the Lord! Someone else sees what the verse is, in context

It's foolishness to the unsaved, God is not calling it foolish

-Alen

[Tim]

:goodpost: Exactly

[John the Baptist]

[quote="Kubel"]
[quote="KJV"]1 Corinthians 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
[/quote]

[quote="KJV"]
1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
[/quote]

So when you read 1 Corinthians 1:21 in a MV, it might help to read some of the other verses in the chapter to get an understanding before condemning the way it is worded. What is it they say, "a text without context is pretext" :wink:.

[quote="NIV"]
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written:

"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."

Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength.
[/quote]

Makes perfect sense to me, both in the KJV and NIV. The "foolishness" is what the world calls it.[/quote]

Clearly inthe context the message ofthe cross is foolishness to the world. but is is the power of God to the saved.

[Me4Him]

To "Correct" a "mistake", one must posses a "greater Knowledge" of the subject than the one making the mistake.

Those who claim ..mistakes.. are in the KJV, actually, are claiming they posses "greater knowledge" than the "Holy Spirit" was able to reveal to the writers, "OR", the writers...WASN'T... being directed by the "Holy Spirit"

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God,

2Pe 1:21 but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

The scriptures are very clear about one thing, everything that belongs to God is "perfect", nothing that defiles can enter.

The "WORD OF GOD", was made both "FLESH/SCRIPTURE",

and either one is as "PERFECT" as the other.

Mt 14:31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?

[kevinmiller]

To "Correct" a "mistake", one must posses a "greater Knowledge" of the subject than the one making the mistake.

Those who claim ..mistakes.. are in the KJV, actually, are claiming they posses "greater knowledge" than the "Holy Spirit" was able to reveal to the writers, "OR", the writers...WASN'T... being directed by the "Holy Spirit"

That would be true if you believed that the Holy Spirit directly inspired the KJV. Obviously, most of us here don't believe that the KJV contains any errors. The way to defend the KJV, though, is not by using it to defend itself but rather by using facts to defend it. You cannot defend something with the very thing that you are trying to defend. It holds no credibility.

[Kubel]

To "Correct" a "mistake", one must posses a "greater Knowledge" of the subject than the one making the mistake.

Those who claim ..mistakes.. are in the KJV, actually, are claiming they posses "greater knowledge" than the "Holy Spirit" was able to reveal to the writers, "OR", the writers...WASN'T... being directed by the "Holy Spirit".

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God,

2Pe 1:21 but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
The scriptures are very clear about one thing, everything that belongs to God is "perfect", nothing that defiles can enter.

The "WORD OF GOD", was made both "FLESH/SCRIPTURE",

and either one is as "PERFECT" as the other.

Mt 14:31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?

As kevin mentioned, this reasoning works well for those that believe the Holy Spirit put the men who translated the KJV under inspiration, or for those that believe God preserves the scriptures in only one form. But I can pretty much guarantee that anyone who believes that the KJV is less than perfect does not believe in a second inspiration or perfect word-for-word one-version-only preservation. So this reasoning doesn't work too well.

These people (I am one of them) don't believe that mainly because there's no scripture supporting it. I view onlyism as a fairly recent ascriptural doctrine and ascriptural faith (both doctrine and faith are required to be based on the word of God [see Rom 10:17 and 2Tim 3:16]). If they are not, then they are just man-made religion.

If we compare the doctrine and faith of the Assumption of Mary to the doctrine and faith of Onlyism, we find many things in common:

1) There's no scripture supporting it.
2) There's no scripture denying it.
3) Many good and honest people believe it and teach it.

Do I believe Mary was assumed into heaven?
No.

Why not?
Because there's no scripture supporting it.

Is it possible that God could have assumed Mary into heaven?
Yes, it's possible.

Why is it possible?
Because there's no scripture denying it, and because with God, all things are possible.

Just because it's possible, is that a good enough reason to believe?
No.

Why not?
Because doctrine and faith are based on the word of God (Rom 10:17 and 2Tim 3:16). If God wanted us to believe, he would have had it written it.