Question about James 5:14

[Guest Guest]

How does James 5:14 describe how the elders (presbyters, priests) dealt with the sick? What did they use to help the sick? Does the faith community you're involved with do this? If not, why not?

[Londoner]

I've seen that happen occasionally at church meetings here in the UK. I'm interested in the "anointing with oil" bit, because my own feeling is that it's the prayer that counts, and that the "anointing with oil" was no more than a practical step to provide relief from symptoms;

The very first time I saw a Baptist pastor take out a little bottle of oil and annoint someone with it (by smearing a bit on their forehead) it struck me as a rather odd thing to do.

However, those here that go in for anointing with oil take a very different view and believe it has importance.

[Anon]

Up until a few years ago I also believed in the anointing with oil...however recently I've heard a slightly different teaching...that the anointing with oil was simply "medical attention" and that it was the prayers that did the healing... and it was also connected with forgiveness of sin because the sickness would have been the direct punishment because of sin.

[Psalms18_28]

While it ok to pray to be healed, I think the most important thing is to trust God no matter what happens. Trust him to comfort you, to help you through hardship, or even dying. Trust him because it is his will. Praise him if you are healed.

Since my mom had cancer, all her family kept telling her, "Have faith God will heal you". Sometime they blamed her for not having faith enough whenever she got discouraged. One of my aunt even got a preacher to anoint oil on her. Everyone in the family were having faith that the oil will heal her instead of God, although I know that the oil itself does not do the healing, but that's how it seem like. When she died, They all blamed her and everyone because we didn't do enough or have enough faith or positive attitude (It's hard to have a positive attitude in a time like that). And sometime I can't help feeling I didn't do enough to help her "heal". Then I realized that It was God's will to take her, and no amount of faith or treatments wasn't going to change that .If it was his will, he would have allowed treatments to treat her cancer. I really don't like it when people say, "you are not healed because you didn't have enough faith" and saying "have more faith" is the same thing. I think it is wiser to have faith in God's wisdom instead of faith in what you want him to do.

[Anon]

While it ok to pray to be healed, I think the most important thing is to trust God no matter what happens. Trust him to comfort you, to help you through hardship, or even dying. Trust him because it is his will. Praise him if you are healed.

Since my mom had cancer, all her family kept telling her, "Have faith God will heal you". Sometime they blamed her for not having faith enough whenever she got discouraged. One of my aunt even got a preacher to anoint oil on her. Everyone in the family were having faith that the oil will heal her instead of God, although I know that the oil itself does not do the healing, but that's how it seem like. When she died, They all blamed her and everyone because we didn't do enough or have enough faith or positive attitude (It's hard to have a positive attitude in a time like that). And sometime I can't help feeling I didn't do enough to help her "heal". Then I realized that It was God's will to take her, and no amount of faith or treatments wasn't going to change that .If it was his will, he would have allowed treatments to treat her cancer. I really don't like it when people say, "you are not healed because you didn't have enough faith" and saying "have more faith" is the same thing. I think it is wiser to have faith in God's wisdom instead of faith in what you want him to do.

Very true.... I used to really struggle with the healing promises in the Bible after my mom died (she passed after two weeks on life support following a serious car accident). My dad even had a pastor "anoint her with oil" because that is how they interpreted that passage at that time. I had to come to terms with the fact that it was evidently her time to go, and God had a purpose for it. She was a very godly lady and God knew what He was doing.

I do tend to be a bit more fearful ever since that time, I think, because of the realization that anything can happen at any time...but I have to remind myself that nothing will happen if God doesn't want it to...and if God does want something to happen...then nothing, including my worrying, can stop it. (Doesn't always help but I try!)

[Psalms18_28]

Very true.... I used to really struggle with the healing promises in the Bible after my mom died (she passed after two weeks on life support following a serious car accident). My dad even had a pastor "anoint her with oil" because that is how they interpreted that passage at that time. I had to come to terms with the fact that it was evidently her time to go, and God had a purpose for it. She was a very godly lady and God knew what He was doing.

I do tend to be a bit more fearful ever since that time, I think, because of the realization that anything can happen at any time...but I have to remind myself that nothing will happen if God doesn't want it to...and if God does want something to happen...then nothing, including my worrying, can stop it. (Doesn't always help but I try!)

((hugs)) I can relate to that.

[Jerry]

James 5:14-20 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months. And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit. Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

This verse and the remainder of the passage does give us God's will in regards to healing in SPECIFIC situations. It is not healing of any old sickness - the context is healing for a backslidden Christian. When the sickness is the direct result of chastening of an unrepentant believer - when the believer gets their sin right and confesses their faults to those they have wronged, then there is no longer any need for the chastizing sickness - therefore God WILL heal them. There is no need to determine God's will in such a situation, He has already told us. This makes it a Bible promise to claim. If I know in my heart that a particular sickness has been caused by God because I was unwilling to deal with sin in my life - I can claim His promise, that if I repent and get that sin right, He will heal my sickness; it will have achieved its chastening effect and is no longer needed.

Those that teach that passage is referring to general sickness have not prayerfully studied out and considered the context - and many have been hurt as a result of that (whether it was intention deception or not).

This passage shows the contrast between the sin unto death - when the chastening does not achieve its intended result and the believer is taken home to be with the Lord - and the sickness that does result in the believer repenting and being healed.

[manofconviction]

Explained well, Jerry. Gods' perfect will in some cases can't be "rationally" explained. God is in control and "prayer for His will to be done" in all cases and trusting in Him for the outcome.

[Pastorj]

James 5:14-20 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months. And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit. Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

I have never heard of Jerry's explanation, but here is what I would hold to.
1. It says "Is any sick among you?"
2. They are to call for the elders (pastor
3. The pastor is to anoint him with oil and saints are to pray for him
4. Notice the next words "and if" he has committed sins he must confess them.
5. James then goes into an example of how the effectual fervent prayer of righteous men availeth much.

Notice, that it doesn't say anything about this being for only sinners. Though I do not believe that this should be done hap-hazardly, it should be done by faith and on the understanding that God doesn't always heal and we must accept his will.

[Anon]

Is the anointing of oil a symbolic act or is it simply applying medicine?

I had always been taught the symbolic act but as of late we have heard many say it actually means giving of some sort of medicine.

[justalex]

I personally believe the annointing with oil was for medical reasons. My old Pastor thought it
symbolic. I don't know what my current Pastor believes.

[Kubel]

How does James 5:14 describe how the elders (presbyters, priests) dealt with the sick? What did they use to help the sick? Does the faith community you're involved with do this? If not, why not?

On request, I'm sure they would. Why do some churches not do this, or do this rarely? Probably because some churches shy away from these type of things because they don't feel they are relevant in this age. At my old church, fasting was NEVER done or encouraged- yet they were a very much more 'old fashion' Baptist church. When I joined my new church, I learned a lot about fasting an how it is relevant today just as it was back then.

I agree with Pastorj's post.

[John the Baptist]

Up until a few years ago I also believed in the anointing with oil...however recently I've heard a slightly different teaching...that the anointing with oil was simply "medical attention" and that it was the prayers that did the healing... and it was also connected with forgiveness of sin because the sickness would have been the direct punishment because of sin.

Jam 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

aleipho

[Psalms18_28]

Jam 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

aleipho

[Anon]

I dunno, Paul told Timothy how to heal up his stomach problems...probably most medical attention was "homeopathic" back then....