Hand holding....

[HappyChristian]

Katy-Anne, I never said for you not to believe your preacher. you have quite the knack for twisting people's words!!! And I never said to spoon-feed your children when they are older. Putting boundaries around them in no way spoon feeds them. It frees them up to seek the Lord's will for their lives without their emotions getting involved.

You have a serious attitude problem toward parental authority, and that's a shame. I really think that you believe people are judging you because you held hands. No-one is, if that's the case.

Parenting does not quit just because someone turns 18. It changes a bit, but it doesn't quit. If you want to teach your kids to go ahead and hold hands, that is your business. I truly don't believe you will by the time they reach that age, if the Lord tarries, but what do I know? I've just been your age and learned an awful lot, changed my mind about a lot of things since then...But, anyway, if you want to teach them that, go ahead. But you have no scriptural backing for lambasting parents who teach otherwise. You need to do a thorough study of what scripture teaches about the parent-child relationship before you try instructing people whose children are the near, the same age or older than you, and who have trained their children up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord!

Oh - and I know you are married, and I wasn't talking about sexual thoughts after marriage. I, too, said I felt secure - did you read it? And my husband said it gave him a sexual thrill...before he had ever had sex. He was INNOCENT, and that is why it gave him a charge...and that is why we stopped. And when men are not married, what OTHER things do they do?

[Guest Guest]

Who are you to proudly say I'll change my mind about teaching my kids hand holding is ok? I don't think I will because I like to be faithful to the BIBLE and there is NOTHING in the BIBLE that teaches that it is wrong. Boundaries on children are one thing, but if you place unbiblical boundaries on them, it is no wonder they "rebel". Any Biblical standard is great, but if you teach it to your kids and can't back it up with the Bible, well duh of course your kid will rebel against it. When he becomes and adult "obey me because I said so" just won't work. If there is a reason why it is wrong, you'll have a better chance of him doing it, but if you can't prove it, of course he'll rebel because you can't prove a thing. Trust me, I was that child...and I don't want my children to have blind obedience...well not when they are teens. I do when they are children and don't understand, but when they are teens I want them to think about why they believe what they believe, and have Biblical backing for it. I don't want robots, I want godly children who turn out to be godly adults.

Katy-Anne

[IM4given]

*sigh* Come back in 18 years Sister Katy-Anne, and you may feel differently. You can only see things from your own perspective and not from the perspective of others. I really do understand what the others are saying, and I only WISH my parents had said this to me when I was younger.

[pneu-engine]

HC and IM4G,

:thumb :java: :clapping:

[dwayner79]

In Katy-Anne's defense, if her position is biblical, then it does not matter how old or how experiences she is.

I got this all the time (still do). The whole come back when your married... .then it was come back when you have kids.... then it was come back when you have 3 kids... then come back when you have teenagers. There have been times when I think that Katy-Anne, as well as myself, and just about everyone here sees things one sided. Noone needs the condescending comments to boot.

I think this thread is pretty well washed up. Everyone has said their piece. I hope the OP leaves encouraged, in spite of all the negative in this thread.

[HappyChristian]

Who are you to proudly say I'll change my mind about teaching my kids hand holding is ok? I don't think I will because I like to be faithful to the BIBLE and there is NOTHING in the BIBLE that teaches that it is wrong. Boundaries on children are one thing, but if you place unbiblical boundaries on them, it is no wonder they "rebel". Any Biblical standard is great, but if you teach it to your kids and can't back it up with the Bible, well duh of course your kid will rebel against it. When he becomes and adult "obey me because I said so" just won't work. If there is a reason why it is wrong, you'll have a better chance of him doing it, but if you can't prove it, of course he'll rebel because you can't prove a thing. Trust me, I was that child...and I don't want my children to have blind obedience...well not when they are teens. I do when they are children and don't understand, but when they are teens I want them to think about why they believe what they believe, and have Biblical backing for it. I don't want robots, I want godly children who turn out to be godly adults.

Katy-Anne

Number one, I never proudly said you'd change your mind, so falsley accusing me of pride shows your immaturity. And show me in the Bible where hand holding is okay? Probably next to the verse that says smoking is wrong. Are you goind to teach your kids smoking is wrong? How are you going to back that up with scripture?

Number two, I challenge you again - do a study on parental child relationship from scripture. Scripture has been quoted on this thread that you have chosen to ignore.

Number three, good, godly children who are not robots are what we all want. Just because we teach our children something you don't agree with doesn't mean our children are robots. My son has a very good head on his shoulders and knows what he believes - from the Bible - and not because "I said so" " And you will learn that even as teens, sometimes blind obedience is necessary - you can't always explain every little thing, and children, teens need to know that they have to accept parental authority because it is God ordained not because they are given a reason to. Don't get me wrong, explaining is a good thing, when it can be done, but it is not always necessary or right.

dwayner, I agree, if her position is biblical, it doesn't matter the age. But is it biblical? And you are right, I hope he is encouraged - things have been somewhat negative, haven't they?

[heartstrings]

Hey...I was gonna stay away from this topic, after my last posts...but last night I believe the Lord showed me the real meaning behind the verse.

1 Corinthians 7:1-9

1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.
5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.
6 But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.
7 For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.
8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I.
9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.



I posted the whole chapter because the verse only makes sense if you look at it in context. I'm tired of how people pull that verse out of the Bible, and make a whole new definition of it, without looking in the context. You wouldn't do that to any other part of Scripture, would you?

Anyhow, the real meaning of that verse is what it says...It's good for a man not to touch a woman. This means sexual touching, holding hands, kissing, you name it. BUT if you read the context, you discover WHY it says that. The context it's in is about marriage vs. fornication. Basically, it's saying that it's good for a man not to touch a woman, but if he can't contain himself, it's better for him to get married than to burn (with lust).

It does NOT mean that a guy can't hold his girlfriend's hand once in a while. The verse does not say "it is good for a man not to touch a woman unless he is married to her", because that would mess up the meaning in context.

So if you want to actually obey this verse by itself, just don't get married, ever.

The passage is NOT requiring obedience by "not marrying". Notice that Paul says that he is speakling "by permission".....NOT commandment. But the word in the passage means just what it says "it is good for a man not to touch a woman" The word "touch" means........... "touch".

Paul was an unmarried man and he is saying "by permission" that it is good to be in the same state as Paul.
It is saying that if you cannot control yourself.....as Paul was able to to do....then marry. But just because Paul was able to remain unmarried...which is better....it is still NOT a sin to marry. It IS however, a sin to commit fornication. Therefore, if you are not able to contain yourself, get married. That is the context. Also read 1 Corinthians 7:32-40 to get another explanation of this pinciple.

The main issue here is

1. Make not provision for the flesh

2. "children obey your parents", (Colossians 3:20),

3. "honour thy father and mother",

Rom 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to [fulfil] the lusts [thereof].

A young lady, holding hands or laying on young man, is making provision for the flesh.
A young man, moving out on his own, before marriage, when his girlfriend has proven that she cannot seem to control herself, and has shown much evidence of rebellion, is making provision for the flesh. You can say what you want, but I have set a standard and a limit. WHen your children reach this stage, you will be in my shoes, then you will remember this. I hope that you handle it well.
If you love your kids, you will set boundaries and limits while they are under our protection and authoirity, just as God does us all. My limits are for them to keep their hands and bodies to themselves until they are married.....and to not leave home until they are married.. After that, they are on their own.

[Anon]

I do want to add this.... some say "If hand holding doesn't lead to other things than its okay". Um..... how do you KNOW it doesn't? You don't....until it leads to other things...which you usually don't plan for, it just happens.

Which is why most sensible Christian parents request their children refrain from this anyway.

Besides....esp if you are not engaged.... why would you want to get married saying you held hands or even kissed ten other guys or girls?

[Guest Guest]

You're telling me my dad doesn't love me then. I'm 18, and still live under my parents' roof like your son does. I almost let some of the rules I grew up with get in the way of my relationship with my boyfriend, and even told my dad that because of certain rules, I was going to end the relationship. Instead of being proud of himself for making strict rules that would prevent me from having a boyfriend, like many parents would probably do, he told me not to let family get in the way of my relationship with my possible future husband. I still have a few rules to follow, and I'm the type of teen that follows absolutely every rule my dad makes, because for some reason I still have some sort of fear of making my dad upset. I know it sounds really weird that my dad "loosened up" when he realized he had that much control, but I'm thankful for it.

If I was raised under super strict rules like you parents are describing, I would stay single and give up on looking for guys. I'm totally not kidding. Other teens in the same situation would become rebellious. Teens like me would never be independent for fear of disobeying their parents by making their own decisions. I'm glad my dad told me to be an adult and that I need to make my own decisions or I'm going to be a very unhappy person that has to rely on my parents for everything.

[Guest Guest]

AMEN Kathie, and God has just given you a real special guy! (Not as special as mine but almost haha).

Katy-Anne

[HappyChristian]

You're telling me my dad doesn't love me then. I'm 18, and still live under my parents' roof like your son does. I almost let some of the rules I grew up with get in the way of my relationship with my boyfriend, and even told my dad that because of certain rules, I was going to end the relationship. Instead of being proud of himself for making strict rules that would prevent me from having a boyfriend, like many parents would probably do, he told me not to let family get in the way of my relationship with my possible future husband. I still have a few rules to follow, and I'm the type of teen that follows absolutely every rule my dad makes, because for some reason I still have some sort of fear of making my dad upset. I know it sounds really weird that my dad "loosened up" when he realized he had that much control, but I'm thankful for it.

If I was raised under super strict rules like you parents are describing, I would stay single and give up on looking for guys. I'm totally not kidding. Other teens in the same situation would become rebellious. Teens like me would never be independent for fear of disobeying their parents by making their own decisions. I'm glad my dad told me to be an adult and that I need to make my own decisions or I'm going to be a very unhappy person that has to rely on my parents for everything.

Please stop putting words in people's mouths. No-one said your dad didn't love you. If he felt that he needed to loosen some rules, great - that was his decision. When you went to him and told him you were thinking about ending the relationship, you did the biblical thing - you approached him with respect and deference, and he is the one who changed rules. Just like I said in an earlier post that parenting is always parenting, but things change as kids age. And since you don't live in any of our houses, you can't say that you would just stay single because you don't know that. My son is very much looking forward to marriage. And he has a girl picked out. They are getting to know each other now, and may start dating in the fall (and, no, that isn't our decision). He knows he has our full blessing on this relationship, and also our support if he decides she isn't the one for him. And they are going to avoid hand-holding. We taught him that, but he is making that decision.

[Anon]

If I was raised under super strict rules like you parents are describing, I would stay single and give up on looking for guys.

To nitpick...

Technically YOU aren't supposed to be looking. The guy does the looking. As a matter of fact, God can do the looking and bring the right one along when its time.

[HappyChristian]

To nitpick...

Technically YOU aren't supposed to be looking. The guy does the looking. As a matter of fact, God can do the looking and bring the right one along when its time.

Yup! God set the standard when He brought Eve to Adam after He created her.

[heartstrings]

You're telling me my dad doesn't love me then. I'm 18, and still live under my parents' roof like your son does. I almost let some of the rules I grew up with get in the way of my relationship with my boyfriend, and even told my dad that because of certain rules, I was going to end the relationship. Instead of being proud of himself for making strict rules that would prevent me from having a boyfriend, like many parents would probably do, he told me not to let family get in the way of my relationship with my possible future husband. I still have a few rules to follow, and I'm the type of teen that follows absolutely every rule my dad makes, because for some reason I still have some sort of fear of making my dad upset. I know it sounds really weird that my dad "loosened up" when he realized he had that much control, but I'm thankful for it.

If I was raised under super strict rules like you parents are describing, I would stay single and give up on looking for guys. I'm totally not kidding. Other teens in the same situation would become rebellious. Teens like me would never be independent for fear of disobeying their parents by making their own decisions. I'm glad my dad told me to be an adult and that I need to make my own decisions or I'm going to be a very unhappy person that has to rely on my parents for everything.

If you are referring to this statement, then you are misunderstanding it....

If you love your kids, you will set boundaries and limits while they are under our protection and authoirity, just as God does us all. My limits are for them to keep their hands and bodies to themselves until they are married.....and to not leave home until they are married.. After that, they are on their own.

I have limits and boundaries, just as you state that your father does....

I still have a few rules to follow

So, don't say that I said that your father does not love you. You know I didn't say that.
However, if you had a dad who just let you do as you please, never corrects you, nor has any limits, then you DO have a dad that does not really love you. That is biblical.

My son is allowed to sit by, ride with, talk with, pray with, go to church with, play games, go fishing, go bowling, skating, whatever....they spend MUCH time together.....but they are chaperoned and they are not allowed to hold hands, kiss, or lay on each other. After they are married , then they can touch all they want.

Now, If I said they could hold hands but couldn't KISS...somebody would call that being strict. My kids are give MUCH freedom, but hand holding and moving out before marriage are my limits and I do no apologize.

[Guest Guest]

LOL if you even knew Kathie's story, she didn't even LOOK for this guy...she didn't even WANT him.

Katy-Anne