Hand holding....

[kevinmiller]

Kevin, his parents didn't like it, but told him to do it anyway if he wanted to...he was obeying. They said they couldn't tell him not to do it because #1 he's and adult, and #2 they did it themselves and made it to marriage without going further.

I am obeying the law when I go to a nightclub. Nothing illegal about that. But is it wrong? Of course it is. Just because your parents say, "I don't want you doing it but you can if you want to" doesn't mean it's right to do it or that you are honoring them by doing it. Honoring them means honoring their wishes.

And one person "making it to marriage without going further" is a VERY poor excuse for allowing someone else to do it. That's like saying I drank and drove but never killed anyone. You can do it too since I did it.

What the father in this case needs to realize is that his child is all grown up and is gonna do what he wants anyways whether legalistic rules are enforced on him or not.

Katy-Anne

The only thing this father "needs to realize" is that his son is dishonoring him by his disobedience and disrespect. Holding hands is a sign of intimacy and something that two unmarried people, whether in love or not, have no business doing. Whether you disagree is moot. If this father believes that way, his son should honor it, even if you may think it is "legalistic."

[HappyChristian]

Kevin, his parents didn't like it, but told him to do it anyway if he wanted to...he was obeying. They said they couldn't tell him not to do it because #1 he's and adult, and #2 they did it themselves and made it to marriage without going further.

What the father in this case needs to realize is that his child is all grown up and is gonna do what he wants anyways whether legalistic rules are enforced on him or not.

Katy-Anne

No, Katy-Anne, his child is NOT all grown up. 18 is not a magic number that says, "Bang - you don't need to listen to mom and dad anymore - you are an adult, and you are all grown up." As I said in my previous post, you will see that when your child hits 18. BTW, just our of curiousity, how old was your husband when you began dating?

And you have made the same mistake so many people make. Legalistic does not apply here. The father is not saying that the son will lose his salvation if he holds hands. Sigh. Please find out the meaning of words before you use them. Legalistic is adding to the requirements for salvation.

Why is it okay for you to give permission for your children to hold hands at 18 (I want you to notice that you have always said that you would let them...thus indicating that you, at least subconsciously, realize that permission still comes from the parents even at that grown-up age of 18!) but it isn't okay for someone to tell their child no? Come on, that's a double standard!

You know, the argument that his parents held hands before marriage so he can is just moot. I used to smoke before I got right with God. Does that mean that I should let my son if he wants to? Nothing in the Bible says directly not to smoke. No - that's silly. There are things we all did that we don't want our kids to do - because it isn't right. Maybe we didn't know, weren't saved or weren't right with God. But the "I did it, so I guess you can, too" argument is like swiss cheese - full of holes!

Good post, Kevin.

[Guest Guest]

But see, at 18, it's not a matter of "letting him". He's an adult, he's responsible for it, no way am I going to butt in and say "you can't do that you're supposed to do everything I tell you even though you are an adult now".

My husband was 22 when we started dating, working a full time job, and supporting his parents. If he's supporting his parents, which he was, and his five younger siblings, he can pretty much do what he wants.

Katy-Anne

[HappyChristian]

But see, at 18, it's not a matter of "letting him". He's an adult, he's responsible for it, no way am I going to butt in and say "you can't do that you're supposed to do everything I tell you even though you are an adult now".

My husband was 22 when we started dating, working a full time job, and supporting his parents. If he's supporting his parents, which he was, and his five younger siblings, he can pretty much do what he wants.

Katy-Anne

Nobody ever said that adult kids had to do everything a parent says. But they do need to honor them. And you are the one that said you would allow or let them hold hands, not me! :smile

Your husband was 22 - he had 4 years on this young man, plus he had a load of responsibility on him that this young man doesn't have. And no, he couldn't do pretty much as he wanted - not if he wanted to be obedient to the Lord. I am over twice your age - and I still need to honor my parents. Do they tell me what to do? Of course not - my husband does :lol . But I listen to them when they speak because they still have more wisdom and life experience than I do. This 18 year old needs to listen to the words of his father - whether or not you agree. Your arguments do not line up with scripture. You just simply trot out the "18 and legal" "can do what they want" stuff. Not biblical at all.

[kevinmiller]

Katy-Anne, the whole crux of your argument is "he's 18, a legal adult." Since when did culture trump the Bible?
You aren't addressing any of the arguments put here before you, therefore, we are simply going in circles.

[HappyChristian]

Katy-Anne, the whole crux of your argument is "he's 18, a legal adult." Since when did culture trump the Bible?
You aren't addressing any of the arguments put here before you, therefore, we are simply going in circles.

Yup!

[Guest Guest]

It's sure a good way to keep pushing his son away though. He's not allowed to hold hands and he's not allowed to move out...he'll probably end up moving out regardless of what he's "allowed" to do.

And my husband paid all his family's bills, for a family of eight. He lived in his fathers house but he paid the bills, so if his parents say we don't like it but do it if you want to, he can do what he wants. He honoured his parents far more by supporting them.

I'm not trumping the Bible. The Bible has adult kids out on their own supporting themselves. Jesus when he was just thirteen or so stayed behind even when his mother wanted Him to go, and He didn't sin.

Katy-Anne

[HappyChristian]

It's sure a good way to keep pushing his son away though. He's not allowed to hold hands and he's not allowed to move out...he'll probably end up moving out regardless of what he's "allowed" to do.

And my husband paid all his family's bills, for a family of eight. He lived in his fathers house but he paid the bills, so if his parents say we don't like it but do it if you want to, he can do what he wants. He honoured his parents far more by supporting them.

I'm not trumping the Bible. The Bible has adult kids out on their own supporting themselves. Jesus when he was just thirteen or so stayed behind even when his mother wanted Him to go, and He didn't sin.

Katy-Anne

Katy-Anne, you don't know that he's pushing him away. The boy has been raised under this man's roof...and knows what his father expects. That won't push him away. What will push him away is rebellion. But you know better than that, so I'm not going to keep saying it.

Jesus did not move at 13, nor did he thumb his nose at parental authority. The last part of that passage says that he went home and was submissive to them. Even though he was 13, he was still God in the flesh...and in the garden he still said, "Not my will, but thine be done." Perfect example of an adult (33 years, not 18) son's submission to his Father.

I'm done here.

[pneu-engine]

Hey PE,

Thanks for the note. I am not sure where the problem is.

#1 - Amen

#2 - Amen (minus the KJV for me, but whatever)

The problem, DW, lies in the bold portion of your statement. For us English speaking people, the KJV should be absolute, but that's another discussion.

Hung up on hand-holding??? Absolutely not!!! I'm not hung up on anything but I do hang onto my KJV for dear life.

The heart, body and soul of Neo-Evangelicalism is the spirit of compromise. This is something that we should avoid at all costs. True and Biblical lovingkindness will never compromise the Truth.

[kevinmiller]

The problem, DW, lies in the bold portion of your statement. For us English speaking people, the KJV should be absolute, but that's another discussion.

Hung up on hand-holding??? Absolutely not!!! I'm not hung up on anything but I do hang onto my KJV for dear life.

The heart, body and soul of Neo-Evangelicalism is the spirit of compromise. This is something that we should avoid at all costs. True and Biblical lovingkindness will never compromise the Truth.

But remember, without love, everything else is worthless. 1 Corinthians 13

[dwayner79]

The problem, DW, lies in the bold portion of your statement. For us English speaking people, the KJV should be absolute, but that's another discussion.

Hung up on hand-holding??? Absolutely not!!! I'm not hung up on anything but I do hang onto my KJV for dear life.

The heart, body and soul of Neo-Evangelicalism is the spirit of compromise. This is something that we should avoid at all costs. True and Biblical lovingkindness will never compromise the Truth.

PE, what in the world does the KJV have to do with this discussion??? please do not turn this into a KJV debate. If you have issue with the content of my post, please clarify.

By your post, am I to assume that you are not against hand-holding? If so then we agree. GREAT!

[heartstrings]

Katy-Anne, you don't know that he's pushing him away. The boy has been raised under this man's roof...and knows what his father expects. That won't push him away. What will push him away is rebellion. But you know better than that, so I'm not going to keep saying it.

Jesus did not move at 13, nor did he thumb his nose at parental authority. The last part of that passage says that he went home and was submissive to them. Even though he was 13, he was still God in the flesh...and in the garden he still said, "Not my will, but thine be done." Perfect example of an adult (33 years, not 18) son's submission to his Father.

I'm done here.

Amen!

Here's another verse, Katy-Anne,

Pro 13:18 Poverty and shame [shall be to] him that refuseth instruction: but he that regardeth reproof shall be honoured.

My son is worthy of much honor....he has proved himself over the years. How he handles this situation, will affect the rest of his life.

Katy-Anne,
I am the man who cried tears of joy as I drove home from the hostpital, thanking my God for his blessing when my son was born. I am the dad who read stories to him, wrestled with him, took him hunting and fishing MANY times, since he was tiny. I held his hnd when he cleaned his first fish, helped him clean that first deer, taght him how to fix things. do his own mechanic work. Taught him how to build and to do it right and how to take pride in his work. I taught him how to play the guitar. I was his teacher, mentor, example, protector for 18 years. He is mature well beyond his years, and has grown to be a fine young man.....However, my job is not yet done. I can still see dangers that he cannot yet see....because of my age and experience. I am not just the old man who doesn't matter. I am the father who loves his son. I don't want to see him make a mistake he will regret. He is still under my roof, he has made promises to me and his mother which I expect him to honor.

He has been given three choices:
1. He can finish school, as promised, then get married....only a few months away.
2. He can get married now and try to get his GED...which he will need
3. He can renig on his promise...and disobey his father.

Choice #1 is really the only right choice because it will be honoring his promise.
Choice #3 is willful disobedience and will make provision for the flesh and the devil.

Pro 3:12 For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son [in whom] he delighteth.

WHen my son was younger, I took a switch to his behind. I taught him to respect himself, his parents, and others. It shows in his life. He is a man now. Now I am just trying to steer him right....to leave in the right way, without any "baggage". Whatever happens he will still be my son.

[Bakershalfdozen]

heartstrings,

You have about 9 pages here on the whys and why nots of hand holding. You already know what you believe so all of that is kind of a moot point.

The major problem in your scenario is not the hand holding; it is the lack of respect that the couple in love has for you. A respectful young couple would have ceased after you asked them to. They aren't ready to get married if they are so immature as to roll eyes and sulk and utterly disregard your wishes.

You sound like you are doing the right thing. I hope your son makes a wise choice.

[dwayner79]

heartstrings,

You have about 9 pages here on the whys and why nots of hand holding. You already know what you believe so all of that is kind of a moot point.

The major problem in your scenario is not the hand holding; it is the lack of respect that the couple in love has for you. A respectful young couple would have ceased after you asked them to. They aren't ready to get married if they are so immature as to roll eyes and sulk and utterly disregard your wishes.

You sound like you are doing the right thing. I hope your son makes a wise choice.

:thumb As do I.

[Guest Guest]

Heartstrings, I know you love your son, every decent father does.

I misinterpreted something that is a major factor in my postings. In the first post you said something about he wasn't allowed to hold hands, but you also had a rule that he wasn't able to leave home till he married. But, you say you have given him the option to get married now, or in a couple months later. So there is a big difference right there.

Anyhow, I think it is great that there are parents trying to raise their kids for the Lord.

Think how you would feel if the you were the young lady in question. She's obviously been taught that hand holding is ok, and her mum said she could do it. Hey - at least she had the respect to ask her mother. She's been taught it's ok, you say it's wrong. You're not her parents, you're her boyfriends parent. If this came up with my child when he turns 18 and I believed as you did, I'd talk to him about it privately rather than her. I'd tell him that HE needed to put a stop to the hand-holding. You probably embarrassed her a lot. I know I was embarrassed when someone from the church told my husband and I that we couldn't hold hands and we tried to explain that we saw nothing wrong with it and neither did our parents, but that didn't matter to them. I was hurt, embarrassed and upset about their interference for a long time. Even now that we are married they frown if he hugs me at church. I can imagine most girls being upset about that. The point I was trying to get across in my first post is that your son is the man, I would have gone about it that way, telling him to tell her. That would also have given you the opportunity to talk about it again. That's easy for me to say because it's not my situation, but that's the kind of person I am, that I would solve it like that. It's possible even that the girl acts out because she resents your telling it to her when her parents are fine with it. Stuff like that can get to girls deeply. From my (young) point of view, I want to teach my boys to be leaders in their boyfriend/girlfriend relationships, to prepare them for marriage. This would have been a GREAT opportunity to let him! :smile

With something so trivial as holding hands I would probably try to compromise a bit too. I'd say something like "well, you promised to finish school, you can hold hands so long as you don't go further, if you finish school for me." (Give him an adult decision if he follows adult behaviour). When kids get to be 18 you really aren't going to win all the battles. Holding hands would be something my husband and I talked about with them but wouldn't enforce anything, to us it's a trivial thing if they are living right.

We have a church full of kids that love their parents. As the kids have grown up the parents have given them more and more freedoms. A few families have girls 20 +. Those girls are free to pretty much do what they like...their parents tell them what they prefer etc, and why, and the kids have a choice in the matter like grown adults. They have an awesome relationship with their parents because of it.

Katy-Anne