KJV mistranslates "nephilim" as "giants"?

[Guest Guest]

http://www.minihost.org/1611/1611_psalms12.jpg

Is it possible for man to bring error into Gods pure words? Is it possible for corruption to seep into Gods pure words? That seems to be the question. When God delivered his word to mankind, it was pure. His promises are true. 100% free from error or lies. When man got hold of it, copied it, translated it, etc... that's when there were problems (although minor). The responsibility of delivering Gods word to people without it fell on the hands of sinful and errant man. No one here can disagree with that. Gods word is pure, but copies and translations of Gods word are filtered through impure man.

What the sense of orginially giving them without error then not preserving them without error? That would seem pretty rotten to me. What good does an innerrant "original" do for me if it's not around anymore.

Wil

[Kubel]

God works in ways that aren't always clear, and often don't make sense to us in our finite minds. Just because we don't understand something is no reason to create a doctrine. If there is no scriptural support to back a belief, leave it that way. No need to second guess the how's and why's of God's way.

In Psalms 12, God has promised to preserve His people. Yet God's people have, are, and will continue to be persecuted, killed, and all kinds of other things that some of us might not interpret as "preservation". Does that mean God lied when he said he will preserve them? Certainly not. What it does mean is that God's way is different than our own. The same applies to scriptural preservation. Do I doubt that God is able to preserve His word? Certainly not. But I understand that God's way is unique, and often beyond our understanding.

Psalms 119:89 For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in _______.

Many will fill the blank with "the KJV". But the KJV is one great translation amongst countless others. Translated by men for the purpose of spreading the gospel. But nothing is perfect. The copying, translation, printing-- even preaching of God's word is rarely done with perfection, because we as humans are rarely perfect. But thank God He allows us to spread His word through these methods, and through our imperfections. I believe, just as the KJV translators believed, that we are blessed to have a variety of translations- and this variety provides us non-Greek/Hebrew speakers with the ability to grasp a greater understanding of the scriptures.

My view is simply one of "Sola Scriptura". By scripture alone, onlyism cannot be supported. And therefore, I cannot accept it as part of my faith. But I do accept the KJV as my translation choice, not out of a man-made doctrine, but out of simple personal preference. :thumb

[Jerry]

I believe, just as the KJV translators believed, that we are blessed to have a variety of translations

Yeah, sound TR-based translations - they were not referring to corrupt translations, or translations based on differing texts - which is the difference between the KJV and the MVs.

[IM4given]

Not to mention all of the MVs being published by Zondervan publishers!

[IM4given]

A word or two about the King James Bible Translators...

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/kingbio.htm

CROWNING ACHIEVEMENT.

Not only was King James the first monarch to unite Scotland, England and Ireland into Great Britain (as he liked to call it), but he commissioned what many consider to be the greatest piece of religious and literary work in the world--the Authorized King James Version of the Bible, aka the Authorized Version. King James gave his subjects the greatest gift he could--the Holy Bible so that they could be saved and fed from the Word of God.

In January of 1604, the King called the Hampton Court Conference in order to hear of things "pretended to be amiss" in the church. At this conference, Dr. John Reynolds, a Puritan, requested of the King a new translation of the Bible because those that were allowed during the reigns of Henry the VIII and Edward the VI were corrupt.

The King loved the idea and by July of 1604 the King had appointed 54 men to the translation committee. These men were not only the best linguists and scholars in the kingdom but in the world. Much of their work on the King James Bible formed the basis for our linguistic studies of today.

The translators were organized into six groups and met respectively at Westminster, Cambridge, and Oxford. This group of great scholars had qualifications such as have not been rivaled before or after them. They spent most of their lifetimes in the pursuit of God and knowledge. One translator, Dr. Lancelot Andrews, mastered at least 15 languages and by the time he was 6 years old, he had read the entire Bible in Hebrew. Others on the translation committee were just as qualified. Some wrote foreign language dictionaries and lexicons, they commonly debated in Greek, they translated and edited great works and wrote their own. These are but a few of their fantastic accomplishments. They not only knew the Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek biblical languages but also the related languages that shed light on them such as Arabic, Persian, Coptic, Syriac, Latin, Chaldee, Spanish, French, Italian, and Dutch.

These men were not only world class scholars, they were Christians who lived holy lives as Deans and Presidents of major universities such as Oxford, Cambridge, and Westminster. Some prayed 5 hours a day.

Their translation work did not go without opposition. According to the translator's notes in the preface of the King James Bible, the Catholic religion was dead set against translating the Bible into the common tongue. Popery proved to be the translator's chief enemy. The translators wrote of the Catholic religion:

"So much are they afraid of the light of the scripture, that they will not trust the people with it...Sure we are that not he that hath the good gold, that is afraid to bring it to the touchstone, but he that hath the counterfeit."
Despite the opposition of the Catholic religion, the work continued and the end product was nothing short of miraculous. Many consider the commissioning of the Authorized King James Version of the Bible the crowning achievement of King James the VI and & I.

Upon its publication, the King James or Authorized Version eclipsed all previous and subsequent versions. It is the best-selling book of all time. Today there are a plethora of Bible versions available--yet for many Christians the King James Bible of 1611 is the absolute and final word of God.

We will use a quote from the Merit Student's Encyclopedia:

"The greatest English Bible is the Authorized, or King James Version...The King James Bible became the traditional Bible of English-speaking Protestants. Its dignified and beautiful style strongly influenced the development of literature in the English language. The influence can be seen in the works of John Bunyan, John Milton, Herman Melville and many other writers."
Actor Charlton Heston had this to say about the King James Bible in his autobiography:

"...the King James translation has been described as the only great work of art ever created by a committee...The authors of several boring translations that have followed over the last fifty years mumble that the KJV is "difficult" filled with long words...Over the past several centuries it's been the single book in most households an enormous force in shaping the development of the English language. Carried around the world by missionaries...Exploring it...was one of the most rewarding creative experiences of my life."

The Authorized King James Version of the Bible has been cherished and read by Christians the world over since 1611 when it was published. Sir Winston Churchill said,
"The scholars who produced this masterpiece are mostly unknown and unremembered. But they forged an enduring link, literary and religious, between the English-speaking people of the world."

The Authorized King James Bible is not only heralded by Christians for its doctrinal accuracy, but it has been recognized by the secular as the "Monument of English Prose" for it is most beautiful in style and prose. In fact, the King James Bible has been listed in Norton Anthologies "The World's Best Literature" for decades.

[heartstrings]

God works in ways that aren't always clear' date=' and often don't make sense to us in our finite minds. Just because we don't understand something is no reason to create a doctrine. If there is no scriptural support to back a belief, leave it that way. No need to second guess the how's and why's of God's way.

In Psalms 12, God has promised to preserve His people. Yet God's people have, are, and will continue to be persecuted, killed, and all kinds of other things that some of us might not interpret as "preservation". Does that mean God lied when he said he will preserve them? Certainly not. What it does mean is that God's way is different than our own. The same applies to scriptural preservation. Do I doubt that God is able to preserve His word? Certainly not. But I understand that God's way is unique, and often beyond our understanding.

Psalms 119:89 For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in _______.

Many will fill the blank with "the KJV". But the KJV is one great translation amongst countless others. Translated by men for the purpose of spreading the gospel. But nothing is perfect. The copying, translation, printing-- even preaching of God's word is rarely done with perfection, because we as humans are rarely perfect. But thank God He allows us to spread His word through these methods, and through our imperfections. I believe, just as the KJV translators believed, that we are blessed to have a variety of translations- and this variety provides us non-Greek/Hebrew speakers with the ability to grasp a greater understanding of the scriptures.

My view is simply one of "Sola Scriptura". By scripture alone, onlyism cannot be supported. And therefore, I cannot accept it as part of my faith. But I do accept the KJV as my translation choice, not out of a man-made doctrine, but out of simple personal preference. :thumb

My friend, if you have no pure words from God Almighty, how can you claim to know Him? His name might not even be "Jesus". Maybe it's plan of salvation is inaccurate too....you might be on your way to Hell and not know it. Or is there a "Hell". Somebody might have used the wrong word?

And how do you know which is the correct word....to fill in that blank? It could have been translated wrong....
That might be Hell for all you know....


Accurate words are important my friend....ask any lawyer.

His word is settled in Heaven.

His words are kept and preserved.
In the Holy Bible...the King James Bible.

[IM4given]

I believe that the KJV translators were among the most learned men of their day. For us to go back and say that they made mistakes is error on our part, not theirs - they knew which words to use all right. If they translated "nephilim" to mean "giants" then it means "giants." I am sure they studied this out, prayed over it, and did the best job that is humanly possible in order to choose the correct word in English.

I think that people who doubt the translation of the King James Bible are the ones who find fault with what the scriptures are teaching rather than what they are translated as. It doesn't say what THEY think it ought to say, so they find ways to twist and re-interpret the meaning of the passage, they want to change the Bible to suit themselves rather changing themselves to suit the Bible.

I do not find it the least bit difficult to read and understand the King James Bible, and I take the Word of God for what it says. I do not know why people have to make things far more complicated than they need to be.

[heartstrings]

:thumb

[IM4given]

Genesis 6

4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.


What is so difficult to understand about this passge? :huh:

[Guest Guest]

Genesis 6

4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.


What is so difficult to understand about this passge?

I think, brother, that a lot of the brethern are scared to say it was angels cohabitating with woman because then people will think they're nuts. Believing in a God/man rising again from the dead is nuts by the world's standards. So who cares.

Wil

[Jerry]

It has nothing to do with fear - I do not believe Genesis chapter six is referring to angels at all, but rather to saved men who lost their separation and intermarried with lost women.

[heartstrings]

1And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

2That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. Brother, you don't "cohabit" with your wife.
Not only that, it says they took "wives ....all of which they chose" that appears to be polygamy, brother.

3And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. ...it says "strive with man"...not angel hybrids.

4There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. It makes a statement..."giants in the earth in those days...." ever heard of Watusi's?...giants are tall people. And who became renowned? Angel hybrids? The Bible says the children became "mighty men" .......brother.....not demons or superhumans...simply men

Now go back to chapter 5 and verse one....
1This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; Now read the whole chapter to see what Adam "generated". He generated the "sons of God". Who are "sons of God". Read 1 John 3:1. Sons of God are believers. saved by grace through faith. All of those men who are named in Genesis chapter 5 were believers, saved by grace through faith. But what did they do wrong? They were not "perfect in their generations". Why? Because they saw the daughters of men and took them each a wife? Huh..uh...they took them wives...of the unbelievers..it seems they were polygamists....."marrying and giving in marriage" is what they were doing before the flood, the Bible says. Did these believers die in the flood? Absolutely not. They died BEFORE the flood.

Now read Genesis 6:9
9These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
What were the generations of Noah? Shem, Ham, and Japheth were. People try to define "perfect" here as being complete. No sir...perfect, means perfect. Was Noah perfect? Of course not. Were Shem, Ham and Japheth? No. So what does "perfect in His generations" mean? It means that he procreated God's way.
1. Not Unequally yoked: He, was a "just man", I believe he married a just woman.
2. One flesh: He was the "husband of one wife". Noah was monogamous.
3. Faithful: All his "generations" were from the union with his wife
4. So Noah was not involved in all the "marrying and giving in marriage" that went on.

The Bible does not say that Noah was perfect. It says "Perfect in his generations"....perfect means....perfect....flawless my friend.
That is one thing we can be "perfect" in.

[Jerry]

I agree with half of what you said... I believe the sons of God in Genesis 6 were saved men.

Perfect in his generations. Why plural? Because Noah lived in two generations - before the flood and after. The word perfect does mean complete or mature (depending upon the context) - and Noah was a mature believe. And yes, according to the Bible, believers can be perfect (not all are thought).

Psalms 37:37 Mark the perfect man, and behold the upright: for the end of that man is peace.

Luke 6:40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.

1 Corinthians 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

2 Corinthians 13:11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

Philippians 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Colossians 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Colossians 4:12 Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.

2 Timothy 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

James 3:2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.

[Guest Guest]

1And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

2That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. Brother, you don't "cohabit" with your wife.
Not only that, it says they took "wives ....all of which they chose" that appears to be polygamy, brother.

3And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, says "strive with man"...not angel hybrids.

4There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. It makes a statement..."giants in the earth in those days...." ever heard of Watusi's?...giants are tall people. And who became renowned? Angel hybrids? The Bible says the children became "mighty men" .......brother.....not demons or superhumans...simply men

Now go back to chapter 5 and verse one....
1This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; Now read the whole chapter to see what Adam "generated". He generated the "sons of God". Who are "sons of God". Read 1 John 3:1. Sons of God are believers. saved by grace through faith. All of those men who are named in Genesis chapter 5 were believers, saved by grace through faith. But what did they do wrong? They were not "perfect in their generations". Why? Because they saw the daughters of men and took them each a wife? Huh..uh...they took them wives...of the unbelievers..it seems they were polygamists....."marrying and giving in marriage" is what they were doing before the flood, the Bible says. Did these believers die in the flood? Absolutely not. They died BEFORE the flood.

Now read Genesis 6:9
9These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
What were the generations of Noah? Shem, Ham, and Japheth were. People try to define "perfect" here as being complete. No sir...perfect, means perfect. Was Noah perfect? Of course not. Were Shem, Ham and Japheth? No. So what does "perfect in His generations" mean? It means that he procreated God's way.
1. Not Unequally yoked: He, was a "just man", I believe he married a just woman.
2. One flesh: He was the "husband of one wife". Noah was monogamous.
3. Faithful: All his "generations" were from the union with his wife
4. So Noah was not involved in all the "marrying and giving in marriage" that went on.

The Bible does not say that Noah was perfect. It says "Perfect in his generations"....perfect means....perfect....flawless my friend.
That is one thing we can be "perfect" in.

So you are saying that polygamy between saved men and unsaved women produced the giants? (Where this would leave David, Solomon, Jacob, etc. I don't know). Since when does marrying unsaved women produce giants. And please don't tell me that it "really means" mighty men. After Adam's fall mankind was know longer "sons of God" but rather "sons of Adam" (Gen. 5:3). Christ (the second Adam) came to restore the image. NO PLACE in the OT do you find anyone referring to themselves as sons of God. The closest you get is (I Chron. 28:6) which is a reference to Solomom. This is probably to typlify Christ's relationship to the Father. Also Isaiah 43:6 which is a future event that hasn't happened yet. In fact you won't find anyone addressing God as their personal heavenly Father in the OT. Not until Matthew do you see " OUR FATHER" (the Lord's prayer) which was probably a shock to the disciples to think of the Almighty as Our Father. Before this it was only Israel as a COPORATE WHOLE that would of approached God like this. You couldn't even enter the temple let alone approach the throne of grace in the OT.

And may I ask, how did one become a "son of God' at the time of Genesis 6? Saved by garace through faith? Really? No law, no gospel, no death-burial-resurrection of the Incarnate Christ, no Israel, NO BIBLE!!!, no Abraham-Issac-Jacob, no heaven (oh you bet they didn't go to heaven!), no being "born again." Do I need to go on?

"for that he ALSO is flesh"

You see that brother. Seems to indicate that somebody else made of flesh was creating a stir on planet earth at the time (Jude 6,7).

Wil


PS If a "daughter of God" took to herself a son of man did they produce midgets?

[IM4given]

Genesis 6

4 There were giants in the earth in those days;

This is a simple statement of FACT - it does not say anything at all these giants being the result of hybrid humans!

and also after that,

NO WHERE does it say as a result of that - it says "after that"

when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them,

Sons of God = Men who loved God/ walked with God/identified themselves with the one true God

daughters of men = women of families who did not believe in the one true God

bare children to them = human children mind you -not giants, aliens from outer space, half-breed monsters, or angel-human hybrids

the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

these children grew up to be well thought of, famous, with big ranches/farms and plenty of wealth

In todays world we think of Mighty Men like Donald Trump, Bill Gates, etc. etc.


What is so difficult to understand about this passge? :huh: :huh: